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The White Horse (Rev. 6)

Discussion in 'Bibliology & Hermeneutics' started by Poiema, Jul 23, 2003.

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  1. Poiema

    Poiema New Member

    I have also posted this in the end times forum.

    In our Monday night Bible study of the end times we are in Rev. 6 and an interesting point was made that I hadn't heard before. My mind is made up becxause it is a Biblical stance, bu I'm just wondering what everyone else thinks.

    Rev 6:1-2 says "Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, "Come." I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer."

    Many people have said this is the anti-christ, but I was very interested in this point made:

    First of all, the scroll contains the Great 7-year Tribulation, so the 7 seals on the scroll must come before the tribulation, as precurors. So how could it be the anti-christ when the anti-christ doesn't even make his appearance until 3.5 yrs into the trib?
    Another consideration is that at NO other place in the book of Rev is the color WHITE attribued to somehing evil. In fact, the opposite is true: at every mention of the color white it is always in reference to Jesus or His people. I haven't done a Bible-wide word study yet, but I can't think of ANY other time that WHITE is attributed to something evil. Why then, would it be a color for the anti-christ in Rev 6? I am more inclined to believe that this symbolism is in reference to the Church or the Gospel.

    Another thing that I'll have to look into is the crown. Besides literal kings in the Bible, the only people who ever receive crowns are Christ and His people, the Church. Why would the anti-christ have a crown? And who gave it to him?

    Just some things I'm considering these days and wanted to know what others thought.

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  2. kimber1

    kimber1 mean people suck

    In Relationship
    we're studying that too!!!! I'll tell you what my pastor said about it although it conflicts with what you said...not saying you're wrong...just his thoughts on it.

    He said that it is supposed to symbolize the anti-christ and that since he is a deceiver I think that's why the white color. He also made the comment that notice he has a bow but no arrow meaning that he came to wage war but hasn't the power to inflict any more damage than what God will allow.
  3. Poiema

    Poiema New Member

    An interesting point, but since this is the revelation of God to John, wouldn't God have made that more clear by saying something like ":a horse that Appeared to be white" or "a horse that seemed white in the eyes of men" or somehing to clarify it? Based on a word study of White in Revelation, revealing that it always has to do with Jesus or something directly related to Him, I don't believe God would let the color White stand to describe evil without some sort of clarification. :confused:

    This is an interesting thing that I thought of, too. I have no idea why the arrows were left out of the scenario but with all the other evidence pointing toward a Holy figure rather than an evil figure, I'm sill inclined to believe this is a Holy figur such as the Church or the Gospel (though I do believe that it is more likely the Gospel).

    I really enjoy discussions with others who are studying the same passages. Thanks for responding :) :wave:
  4. Poiema

    Poiema New Member

    Okay, so this is what I get for having to take care of a baby during Bible Study ... I missed wriing down my notes on the bow altogether! I called my pastor and asked him about it and he gave me the verses.

    Just as with any key word (like the word "white") we often get our answers in a word study. When we look up the word BOW we find that it is in reference to Divine Victory.
    I'm just posting main parts of verses here ... please read them in their entirety since conext is very important :)

    Habakkuk 3:9-13
    "You uncovered your bow, ...13 You came out to deliver your people, ..."

    Isaiah 41:2
    "He turns them to dust with his sword,
    to windblown chaff with his bow."

    Isaiah 49:2-3
    "He made me into a polished arrow
    and concealed me in his quiver.
    He said to me, "You are my servant,
    Israel, in whom I will display my splendor."

    Zechariah 9:13
    "I will bend Judah as I bend my bow
    and fill it with Ephraim.
    I will rouse your sons, O Zion,
    against your sons, O Greece,
    and make you like a warrior's sword."

    Psalm 45:4-5
    " And in Your majesty ride on victoriously,... Your arrows are sharp;
    The peoples fall under You;
    Your arrows are in the heart of the King's enemies."

    I did my own search a bit ago at biblegateway.com and there over 90 references to bow in the OT alone, but many had o do with the verb "bow" as in "to bend the knee." I didn't get through them all, but I didn't see one single reference to a spiritual bow in the hands of satan, only in the hands of God. he also refers o His people as bows in a couple verses I saw. This seems to support the idea that the white horse/rider are not the anti-christ.

    As for there being no arrows, here were a few verses that mentioned the bow but no arrows. I think that it is just assumed that arrows come with the bow. The best verse supporting this is found in
    Job 20:24
    "He may flee from the iron weapon, But the bronze bow will pierce him."

    We know that a Bow will not pierce the person, but rather, the arrows shot from the bow. But the arrows are implied here in the single word "Bow."
  5. stumpsitting101

    stumpsitting101 Senior Member

    Hi All: I feel Poiema has a valid point as to the color white.

    I personally feel the bow without arrows fall into the symbol that arrows are words. The war has been waged, the arrows (words) have been shot (spoken), all that is needed to enter the Kingdon of God has been revealed. No more words can be added. It's a done deal so to say. "It is finished"

    The crown is not a diadem, but a "stephanos" the wreathe given to those who are victorious in the game or battle. I personally don't think Satan nor an "anti-christ" could qualify to wear this crown.

    Sad to say, that many a well meaning preacher or teacher, stay within party-lines in their teaching. When questions arise outside their thinking, they are able to explain the questions away, use special meanings for words and events, or just side step the issue. (Not trying to down these people)
    We are still learning in this day, and the Sheep are asking questions, not willing to settle on just any old answer, but one which gives light to God's purpose and direction in these times.
    I know all will not accept this, These are what I feel I must pursue.
  6. Poiema

    Poiema New Member

    I hadn't looked this up before, but when I saw Ken's post I had to be a good Berean :) and check into it for myself. So, I looked i upin mt Strong's and lo and behold, it is a stephanos ... a crown of victory. This would go hand-in-hand with the bow carrying the connotation of Divine Victory.
    Thank you so much for your post, Ken! :clap:
  7. cbk

    cbk Guest

    True, he held a bow, but just because an arrow is never mentioned doesn't mean that he doesn't have a quiver on his back with the arrows in them.

    I've heard this arguement and I can't see how these four beasts could represent the antiChrist going through mood changes, but, it is possible. What I was wondering is what scripture references are there to the four horsemen of Revelation being one and the same, rather than 4 seperate individuals or entities??? Just curious.

    Seems to me the antichrist would not be described as four different entities when it could easily be described as as a deceiver.
  8. Poiema

    Poiema New Member

    I've never heard this take on it before. I grew up being taught the white horse was the ac (that'schanged) but never heard that the others were.
  9. cbk

    cbk Guest

    I've heard it in different ways, in conversation. Never had a Bible study that was organized, though.

    But, if we relate to Daniel, the antiChrist doesn't make its appearance until after the fourth beast of Daniel arises. Which, in Revelation, the beast of the sea doesn't arise until later, after the first four seals. Therefore, if the Beast of Revelation is the fourth beast of Daniel (or IMHO all four Beasts of Daniel that have alligned), then the antiChrist would not come out to conquer so soon.

    I agree with you that the first horseman represents Christianity, but not the positive side of Christianity. I think it is more fitting to see it as the dark-side of Christianity, IE, the Holy Roman Empire (and breakoffs) that USED Christianity and the church to conquer, kill, and rule --- all in the name of God. Crusades, Inquisition, Roman Catholic Church troublesome times.

    I believe this idea of the first rider being the antichrist is a jump made by some who assume the period from the first seal to the last vial occurs within a seven year stretch. Therefore, they define the first rider as the antichrist and submit this as proof. An assumption is made and proven upon another assumption.
  10. kimber1

    kimber1 mean people suck

    In Relationship
    hmmmm, you know i never thought about some of the things y'all have mentioned in here!! Like the 4 horses all being the same being. I'm gonna have to call my pastor!!! but I get your point about the arrow being assumed. that makes sense. why have the bow and no arrows!!

    Poeima, are y'all doing this study on Sunday nights? if so, we'll have to get back to this thread every monday morning adn share our notes!!!
  11. cbk

    cbk Guest

  12. cbk

    cbk Guest

    ooops, double post. I meant to hit edit.
  13. Poiema

    Poiema New Member

    It's our Monday night study, but I don't mind posting late Mondays :)
  14. JesseB.

    JesseB. Praying for healing......

    Doesn't this belong in the Eschatology forum?? :confused: :scratch:
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