The Way to Have Faith Alone

[Soyeong]

I want to discuss two ideas about what it means to have faith alone:

#1 The way to have faith alone in God for our salvation involves choosing to obediently relying on His instructions.

#2 If our salvation requires us to do anything, then it is not faith in God alone, or in other words, we just need to believe and God will do everything else that is required for our salvation

God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), and a law that we should not trust for salvation can't come from a God who is trustworthy, so the way to have faith in God alone is by obediently relying on only what He has instructed, while it is contradictory to think that we should trust in God, but should not trust in what He has instructed. Obedience to any set of instructions is about is about relying on the one who gave them to rightly guide us and thinking that we are relying on ourselves by following someone else's instructions would not be giving credit where it is due, which is why there are many verses that connect our faith in God with our obedience to His instructions. For example, in Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. In Habakkuk 2:4, the righteous shall live by faith, and in Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is God's law, so living by faith in God alone does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to God's instructions. So it is incorrect to think obediently relying on God's instructions is doing something other than having faith in God alone. By someone treating God's instructions as not being trustworthy for salvation, they are treating God as not being trustworthy for salvation, so someone who rejects obedience to God's instructions in the name of having faith in God alone is sadly actually refusing to have faith in God alone.

 

[Lost Witness]

I want to discuss two ideas about what it means to have faith alone:

#1 The way to have faith alone in God for our salvation involves choosing to obediently relying on His instructions.

#2 If our salvation requires us to do anything, then it is not faith in God alone, or in other words, we just need to believe and God will do everything else that is required for our salvation

God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), and a law that we should not trust for salvation can't come from a God who is trustworthy, so the way to have faith in God alone is by obediently relying on only what He has instructed, while it is contradictory to think that we should trust in God, but should not trust in what He has instructed. Obedience to any set of instructions is about is about relying on the one who gave them to rightly guide us and thinking that we are relying on ourselves by following someone else's instructions would not be giving credit where it is due, which is why there are many verses that connect our faith in God with our obedience to His instructions. For example, in Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. In Habakkuk 2:4, the righteous shall live by faith, and in Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is God's law, so living by faith in God alone does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to God's instructions. So it is incorrect to think obediently relying on God's instructions is doing something other than having faith in God alone. By someone treating God's instructions as not being trustworthy for salvation, they are treating God as not being trustworthy for salvation, so someone who rejects obedience to God's instructions in the name of having faith in God alone is sadly actually refusing to have faith in God alone.

GOD doesn't Contradict himself, ever.

 

[Soyeong]

GOD doesn't Contradict himself, ever.

Agreed, though people can still interpret God’s word in a contradictory manner.

 

[d taylor]

Search Results for “faith alone” – Grace Evangelical Society

faithalone.org

Is Justification by Faith Alone? – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[Mark Quayle]

I want to discuss two ideas about what it means to have faith alone:

#1 The way to have faith alone in God for our salvation involves choosing to obediently relying on His instructions.

#2 If our salvation requires us to do anything, then it is not faith in God alone, or in other words, we just need to believe and God will do everything else that is required for our salvation

Your two ideas look to me like one and the same 'way', the second one contradicting itself. It attempts to deny that we can do anything for salvation, then turns right around and says we just need to believe, God doing the rest of what is required.

HOW does one believe? Is faith generated by the believer?

I don't deny we need to believe —faith is indeed required, but salvific faith is unlike any other faith: It is NOT generated by the believer, but by the Spirit of God.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day,

We are justified by Faith alone the gift of this justifying Faith is given by God to His adopted children and serves His purpose.

Rc Sproul - https://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/justified-by-faith-alone

Clement of Rome does a good job here:

Salvation - Justification - Clement of Rome
"And we who through his will have been called in Christ Jesus are justified, not by ourselves, or through our wisdom or understanding or godliness, or the works that we have done in holiness of heart, but by faith, by which all men from the beginning have been justified by Almighty God, to whom be glory world without end. Amen. What, then, shall we do, brethren? Shall we cease from well-doing, and abandon charity? May the Master never allow that this should happen to us! but let us rather with diligence and zeal hasten to fulfil every good work. For the Maker and Lord of all things rejoiceth in his works. By his supreme power he founded the heavens, and by his incomprehensible understanding he ordered them. The earth he separated from the water that surrounded it, and fixed it on the firm foundation of his own will. The animals which inhabit therein he commanded to be by his ordinance. Having made beforehand the sea and the animals that are therein, he shut them in by his own power. Man, the most excellent of all animals, infinite in faculty, he moulded with his holy and faultless hands, in the impress of his likeness. For thus saith God: Let us make man in our own image, and after our own likeness. And God made man. Male and female made he them. When, therefore, he had finished all things, he praised and blessed them, and said, Be fruitful, and multiply. Let us see, therefore, how all the just have been adorned with good works. Yea, the Lord himself rejoiced when he had adorned himself with his works. Having, therefore, this example, let us come in without shrinking to his will; let us work with all our strength the work of righteousness." (32-33)

As does

Salvation - John Chrysostom

"But after saying that 'it was excluded,' he shows also, how. How then does he say it was excluded? 'By what law? of works? Nay, but by the law of faith.' See he calls the faith also a law delighting to keep to the names, and so allay the seeming novelty. But what is the 'law of faith?' It is, being saved by grace. Here he shows God's power, in that He has not only saved, but has even justified, and led them to boasting, and this too without needing works, but looking for faith only." (Homilies on Romans, 7, v. 27)

In Him,

Bill

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I want to discuss two ideas about what it means to have faith alone:

#1 The way to have faith alone in God for our salvation involves choosing to obediently relying on His instructions.

#2 If our salvation requires us to do anything, then it is not faith in God alone, or in other words, we just need to believe and God will do everything else that is required for our salvation

God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), and a law that we should not trust for salvation can't come from a God who is trustworthy, so the way to have faith in God alone is by obediently relying on only what He has instructed, while it is contradictory to think that we should trust in God, but should not trust in what He has instructed. Obedience to any set of instructions is about is about relying on the one who gave them to rightly guide us and thinking that we are relying on ourselves by following someone else's instructions would not be giving credit where it is due, which is why there are many verses that connect our faith in God with our obedience to His instructions. For example, in Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. In Habakkuk 2:4, the righteous shall live by faith, and in Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is God's law, so living by faith in God alone does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to God's instructions. So it is incorrect to think obediently relying on God's instructions is doing something other than having faith in God alone. By someone treating God's instructions as not being trustworthy for salvation, they are treating God as not being trustworthy for salvation, so someone who rejects obedience to God's instructions in the name of having faith in God alone is sadly actually refusing to have faith in God alone.

I am confused with your post. Is it faith in the "law" or is it faith in "Jesus Christ of Nazareth"? What law should we trust for salvation? How about His Holy Spirit who is key to our communion with Him.
Thanks for sharing.
Blessings

 

[Soyeong]

I am confused with your post. Is it faith in the "law" or is it faith in "Jesus Christ of Nazareth"? How about His Holy Spirit who is key to our communion with Him.
Thanks for sharing.
Blessings

The point is to discuss what it means to have faith alone. Having faith in God's word is not different from having faith in God's word made flesh.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The point is to discuss what it means to have faith alone. Having faith in God's word is not different from having faith in God's word made flesh.

Those are two different things. There is the WORD. Jesus and then there is the word, Torah. Jesus is God's spoken WORD, not the law. "In the beginning" was Jesus Christ of Nazareth, all was created through Him and He always existed. The law is the school master.

 

[Soyeong]

Good Day,

We are justified by Faith alone the gift of this justifying Faith is given by God to His adopted children and serves His purpose.

Rc Sproul - https://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/justified-by-faith-alone

Clement of Rome does a good job here:

Salvation - Justification - Clement of Rome
"And we who through his will have been called in Christ Jesus are justified, not by ourselves, or through our wisdom or understanding or godliness, or the works that we have done in holiness of heart, but by faith, by which all men from the beginning have been justified by Almighty God, to whom be glory world without end. Amen. What, then, shall we do, brethren? Shall we cease from well-doing, and abandon charity? May the Master never allow that this should happen to us! but let us rather with diligence and zeal hasten to fulfil every good work. For the Maker and Lord of all things rejoiceth in his works. By his supreme power he founded the heavens, and by his incomprehensible understanding he ordered them. The earth he separated from the water that surrounded it, and fixed it on the firm foundation of his own will. The animals which inhabit therein he commanded to be by his ordinance. Having made beforehand the sea and the animals that are therein, he shut them in by his own power. Man, the most excellent of all animals, infinite in faculty, he moulded with his holy and faultless hands, in the impress of his likeness. For thus saith God: Let us make man in our own image, and after our own likeness. And God made man. Male and female made he them. When, therefore, he had finished all things, he praised and blessed them, and said, Be fruitful, and multiply. Let us see, therefore, how all the just have been adorned with good works. Yea, the Lord himself rejoiced when he had adorned himself with his works. Having, therefore, this example, let us come in without shrinking to his will; let us work with all our strength the work of righteousness." (32-33)

As does

Salvation - John Chrysostom

"But after saying that 'it was excluded,' he shows also, how. How then does he say it was excluded? 'By what law? of works? Nay, but by the law of faith.' See he calls the faith also a law delighting to keep to the names, and so allay the seeming novelty. But what is the 'law of faith?' It is, being saved by grace. Here he shows God's power, in that He has not only saved, but has even justified, and led them to boasting, and this too without needing works, but looking for faith only." (Homilies on Romans, 7, v. 27)

In Him,

Bill

Good day,

Those quotes contrast faith with works as through relying on what God has instructed is different than relying on God, which is a position that I think is incorrect.

 

[Soyeong]

Those are two different things. There is the WORD. Jesus and then there is the word, Torah. Jesus is God's spoken word not the law. "In the beginning" was Jesus Christ of Nazareth all was created through Him. The law is the school master.

The Torah is God's spoken word (Deuteronomy 5:31-33). The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of God's nature it does to describe aspects of the nature of the Torah, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), and it could not be accurately described as such if it were not God's instructions for how to express those aspects of His nature. The Son is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed through setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah, so he is the living embodiment of the Torah, or in other words, the word of God made flesh.

 

[Soyeong]

Your two ideas look to me like one and the same 'way', the second one contradicting itself. It attempts to deny that we can do anything for salvation, then turns right around and says we just need to believe, God doing the rest of what is required.

HOW does one believe? Is faith generated by the believer?

I don't deny we need to believe —faith is indeed required, but salvific faith is unlike any other faith: It is NOT generated by the believer, but by the Spirit of God.

Some people see belief as not being a work, but as simply mentally affirming something. However, I think that doing good works is the way to believe.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The Torah is God's spoken word (Deuteronomy 5:31-33). The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of God's nature it does to describe aspects of the nature of the Torah, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), and it could not be accurately described as such if it were not God's instructions for how to express those aspects of His nature. The Son is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed through setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah, so he is the living embodiment of the Torah, or in other words, the word of God made flesh.

I respectfully disagree. I am not Torah observant so I fear we will continually debate with no resolution.
Thanks for sharing!
Blessings

 

[d taylor]

-​

Faith is not a special gift, God only gives certain people, so they can have faith in The Messiah. The faith used to believe in the Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life. Is the same faith people use everyday, to trust in something or someone, the only difference is the Object, a person's faith is placed in, The Messiah.

God can not lie so His promise that anyone who trust in The Messiah has received His free gift of Eternal Life is 100% true.

 

[BBAS 64]

-​

Faith is not a special gift, God only gives certain people, so they can have faith in The Messiah. The faith used to believe in the Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life. Is the same faith people use everyday, to trust in something or someone, the only difference is the Object, a person's faith is placed in, The Messiah.

God can not lie so His promise that anyone who trust in The Messiah has received His free gift of Eternal Life is 100% true.

Good Day d taylor

Certainly such definition of Faith is not found in scripture "it is the same Faith"

Paul is very clear:

Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith.

He does not say Wicked men have faith and place it in the incorrect object he is quite clear. They all do not have faith.

Now Luther did some great work on "types" of faith that work may help in your understanding. His introduction to Romans looks at the biblical construct.

"Instead, faith is God's work in us, that changes us and gives new birth from God. It kills the Old Adam and makes us completely different people. It changes our hearts, our spirits, our thoughts and all our powers. It brings the Holy Spirit with it. Yes, it is a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn't stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever. He stumbles around and looks for faith and good works, even though he does not know what faith or good works are. Yet he gossips and chatters about faith and good works with many words."


Indeed the Gift ( effective and sufficient) of Faith that God grants ( to his adopted Children) always finds it object in Christ it is for His sake it is Granted.

Php 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake

Our belief is Gods work: Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

In Him,

Bill

 

[d taylor]

Good Day d taylor

Certainly such definition of Faith is not found in scripture "it is the same Faith"

Paul is very clear:

Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith.

He does not say Wicked men have faith and place it in the incorrect object he is quite clear. They all do not have faith.

Now Luther did some great work on "types" of faith that work may help in your understanding. His introduction to Romans looks at the biblical construct.

"Instead, faith is God's work in us, that changes us and gives new birth from God. It kills the Old Adam and makes us completely different people. It changes our hearts, our spirits, our thoughts and all our powers. It brings the Holy Spirit with it. Yes, it is a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn't stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever. He stumbles around and looks for faith and good works, even though he does not know what faith or good works are. Yet he gossips and chatters about faith and good works with many words."


Indeed the Gift ( effective and sufficient) of Faith that God grants ( to his adopted Children) always finds it object in Christ it is for His sake it is Granted.

Php 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake

Our belief is Gods work: Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

In Him,

Bill

Paul is saying these people do not have faith in God. But all these people do have the ability to exercise the act of faith. Their faith is just directed at other objects and not God

Everyone has the ability to have faith like i said in something or someone.

There are no verses stating that God has elected certain people to have faith

 

[d taylor]

Good Day d taylor

Certainly such definition of Faith is not found in scripture "it is the same Faith"

Paul is very clear:

Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith.

He does not say Wicked men have faith and place it in the incorrect object he is quite clear. They all do not have faith.

Now Luther did some great work on "types" of faith that work may help in your understanding. His introduction to Romans looks at the biblical construct.

"Instead, faith is God's work in us, that changes us and gives new birth from God. It kills the Old Adam and makes us completely different people. It changes our hearts, our spirits, our thoughts and all our powers. It brings the Holy Spirit with it. Yes, it is a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn't stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever. He stumbles around and looks for faith and good works, even though he does not know what faith or good works are. Yet he gossips and chatters about faith and good works with many words."


Indeed the Gift ( effective and sufficient) of Faith that God grants ( to his adopted Children) always finds it object in Christ it is for His sake it is Granted.

Php 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake

Our belief is Gods work: Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

In Him,

Bill

Is the Gift of Faith Necessary for People to Become Open to God’s Word? – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[Aaron112]

There are no verses stating that God has elected certain people to have faith

There is one or more that God Says : no one comes to the Father unless the Father draws them.
Or : the desire to seek the Father is a gift. /from the Father/

 

[Aaron112]

If our salvation requires us to do anything, then it is not faith in God alone, or in other words, we just need to believe and God will do everything else that is required for our salvation

hmmm.
If I on an island in the florida keys, with one bridge going to the mainland,
and someone warns me that a hurricane will soon wipe out the island,
and I believe them and have faith in them,

then what happens to me if I remain on the island, the island that does in fact get wiped out, beyond human life being able to continue there at the time ?

 

[d taylor]

There is one or more that God Says : no one comes to the Father unless the Father draws them.
Or : the desire to seek the Father is a gift. /from the Father/

So how do you know God has not drawn all people and some have just rejected the free gift of Eternal Life. Does this verse you use say that God only draws certain people.

Chosen to Bear Fruit: Election in John’s Gospel – Grace Evangelical Society