JSRG
Well-Known Member
- Apr 14, 2019
- 1,400
- 786
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
The evidence indicates they began with Waldo.Did they begin with Waldo or did Waldo join an already existing group?
While the claim that he just joined an already existing group has been argued by some in the past, and there are a few who still try to advance it in the present, it is as far as I can tell not taken seriously by historians anymore. In The Waldensian Dissent by Gabriel Audisio (originally published 1989 in French, the English translation is from 1999), on page 7 the author says concerning them having a pre-Waldo origin:
"No-one today can subscribe to this point of view either. Such debates are no longer valid; it is now unanimously accepted that the Poor of Lyons date back to the twelfth century."
But one might be wondering why it fell out of favor. What were the arguments raised against it? One work that treats with the subject at some length is "Facts and Documents Illustrative of the History, Doctrine, and Rites of the Ancient Albigenses & Waldenses" by the Anglican priest Samuel Maitland. While its main target is the writings of George Faber--Faber was an advocate of the claim that the Waldensians predated Waldo--the arguments raised by Faber were largely the same as others so it works as well. Indeed, Faber seems to be a favorite of those in the present day who try to argue for the Waldensians going back before Waldo, with at least one of the linked articles trying to argue for Waldensian antiquity citing him repeatedly. Of course, someone may not necessarily be interested in reading a full book on the subject, especially as the book isn't just about the Waldensians alone but a bunch of other things that Maitland is criticizing Faber for.
A shorter examination, and one aimed more specifically at the Waldensians, can be found in the article on Waldensians in the Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics as well as the article on Waldensians in the eleventh edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica (if one prefers a simple text version rather than archive.org, it's also available here), in which the problems of the alleged antiquity are discussed.
One issue is that these works I've linked to are a bit dated--Maitland's work is from the mid 19th century and encyclopedias are from the early 20th century--but one should note that the works arguing for a pre-Waldo origin are generally as old or even older. That thesis, after all, was abandoned by historians, as I noted from Audisio at the start of my post, so the main works actually arguing for a pre-Waldo origin are older works to begin with, so in later works that say the Waldensians were founded by Waldo, they don't spend much time feeling the need to rebut arguments few people are still making. Also, anything published past the 1920's is under copyright and thus free access to older sources is more easy online, hence why I could link to those works but could only provide a quote from Audisio.
There is something else that is interesting to note. The Waldensians themselves no longer seem to try to claim to be of greater antiquity than Waldo. Let's take a look at this Waldensian site:
Le origini
This is in Italian, but the opening paragraphs translated into English by Google produces:
The adjective "Waldensian" originates from the story of a merchant from Lyons who lived in the twelfth century who decided, at the end of a profound spiritual crisis, to live the Christian experience following the example of the apostles.
Valdo (probably in the local dialect Valdés) had large passages of the Gospel translated which he read to his friends and, having sold his possessions, lived on alms. In making this decision, he did not intend to rebel against the Church, on the contrary he thought of collaborating in the renewal that in that period was inspired by the reform of Pope Gregory VII.
Instead, he clashed with the hierarchy because, taking inspiration from the Gospel, he exhorted people to live a more authentic faith; that is, he, a layman without studies, did what was due to the clergy.
Expelled from Lyons, he was subsequently excommunicated along with his followers.
So this affirms as 12th century origin of the group. And here is an English Waldensian site:
History
The Waldensian Church originated with the preaching of the merchant Valdo (Waldo of Lyons, from whom the church’s name originates), 1140-1217.
Thus it seems the Waldensians themselves now do not try to claim greater antiquity than that of Waldo.
Upvote
0