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The virgin birth prophecy: out of context

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics' started by Nihilist Virus, Jun 14, 2017.

  1. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    Maybe you should study physics so you see why God is a nonsensical candidate for the cause of the universe.
     
  2. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    The problem with this is that Isaiah's son is named Maher-shalal-hash-baz which means "the spoil hastens speedily." This is an idea that seems opposed to "God is with us" because it's talking about the spoil of the southern kingdom.

    Also if almah is supposed to signify a woman who has never had a child then Isaiah's wife would be excluded. She has already born children as we see in Isaiah 7:3. So virtually no scholar holds to this view. Another piece of evidence to suggest that you're unfamiliar with the material...
     
  3. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    You changed the meaning of the name. It's "spoils" as in plunder. You didn't address the fact that every Christian here takes it as a double prophecy. You assume that Isaiah's first son is with the same mother when there is zero indication thereof. Oh, and Isaiah 8:4 bears striking resemblance to Isaiah 7:16.
     
  4. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    I've only seen you use the words "double prophecy".

    I know that "spoils" means plunder. What's your point?

    Isaiah has only one wife mentioned. If you want to suggest that he had more than one wife then the burden of proof is on you. Isaiah 8:4 does resemble 7:16 but the other discrepancies I've mentioned show that Maher cannot be Immanuel.
     
  5. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid Wisdom VS. Woo ! Supporter

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    I'm sure I don't know what you know... but I've been studying physics and cosmology for a while now. Would you like a bibliography of my sources so you might at least see that I come by my 'ignorance' honestly and so that you might be able to entertain some alternative frames of reference? :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
  6. -57

    -57 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, by all means study physics. Tell us how all the star stuff....something like 1.0E24 stars stuff, plus planet stuff..as well as the other space stuff...was able to fit into a singularity that was ....1.616229(38)×10−35 metres long?

    Then, if you feel like it, tell all of us where the singularity came from. I' suppose I'm saying...if you can't even begin to explain your method of the creation of the universe...BB and all....then how is God a nonsensical candidate for the cause of the universe?
     
  7. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    You're twisting my words. I'm not claiming he had more than one wife. I'm saying there is no evidence that his two sons are of the same woman.

    Spoils means plunder. Now read Isaiah 8:3-4 again. It's right there. Everybody gets it but you.
     
  8. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    It was not in a state of matter but in a state of energy. Even if it was matter, atoms are mostly empty space. As far as we can tell, elementary particles have zero volume. Your gripe here is nonsensical.

    I don't know the origin of the singularity. No one does. But we know it wasn't caused. Space and time must already exist in order for a causal event to occur. "Causality" is shorthand for "processes act on a system to take it from one state to another over a duration of time." So in a state of reality wherein time does not exist, causality does not exist. So the singularity could not have been caused to exist.

    Any deity that could cause the universe to exist would also be able to create a square circle or a one-ended stick. Do you believe God can do this?
     
  9. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    We know Isaiah had a wife (Isaiah 8:3) and we know he had two sons (Isaiah 7:3, Isaiah 8:3). It's not a stretch to assume that both sons were from his wife. If Shear-jashub did not come from his wife then where did he come from? There is no evidence that Isaiah had any illicit affairs or other wives. So the most reasonable conclusion is that Shear-jashub came from his wife. This, along with many other things, excludes her from being the almah of Isaiah 7:14. You may as well just admit this one.

    I agree with you that spoils means plunder. I still am not sure what you're getting at.

    This is the kind of stuff you say when you run out of arguments.
     
  10. -57

    -57 Well-Known Member

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    You see, that's were I laugh. Do I need to post the amount of stuff is in the universe...and the size of the singularity again? Perhaps you didn't realize the dilemma your caught in.
    You want to play the empty space card? ....all that distant between atoms and such...then we spin the elementary particles into zero volume elementary particles...as far as you can tell...I mean, as far as you can tell....yet, God is a nonsensical candidate for the cause of the universe.....as far as you can tell.

    ...as far as you can tell....but, God is a nonsensical candidate for the cause of the universe.
    ...as far as you can tell.
    So, if it wasn't caused...where did it come from? Eternity?

    OK, I'll bite...what then caused time to exist? Or what caused space to exist?
    Don't worry about answering the questions...I know you can't....but despite that..you still willing to make the claim...God is a nonsensical candidate for the cause of the universe?

    ...but your final answer is..."So the singularity could not have been caused to exist"....yet it's here...or was here...according to the BB believers.

    Let me get the right....because God can't make a square circle....God couldn't make the universe? is this what your argument boils down to?
     
  11. HitchSlap

    HitchSlap Burn the torch!

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    Because it has no explanatory value. Replace "God" with Mozart, and it changes nothing.
     
  12. -57

    -57 Well-Known Member

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    It explains everything from stuff to Mozart.
    Perhaps you'd like to take a crack at how al the stuff fit into a singularity. Nihilist Virus tried and failed....your turn.
     
  13. HitchSlap

    HitchSlap Burn the torch!

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    Why do I have to take a "crack" at it? What does it matter what I think?
     
  14. -57

    -57 Well-Known Member

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    I never said you had to....I simply said, perhaps you'd like to take a crack at it.

    if what you think doesn't matter....then delete post 91.....then post 93 and finally I'll delete 94.....
     
  15. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    Yes it is a massive stretch. Most prominent men had multiple sex partners in this era.

    Argument from incredulity fallacy.

    You can't conclude things based on missing information.

    You haven't even given a good reason why we should belive he had only one wife.

    Many other things?

    You won't understand until you drop your assumptions.


    The only thing I'm running out of is patience.
     
  16. HitchSlap

    HitchSlap Burn the torch!

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    I think creating ad hoc scenarios that attribute the beginning of the universe to the supernatural is pointless.
     
  17. -57

    -57 Well-Known Member

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    The point becomes pointless
     
  18. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    If causality requires time, and if time began to exist in the Big Bang, then how was the Big Bang caused?
     
  19. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    Again this demonstrates ignorance about the nature of prophetic ministry in Israel.

    How do you arrive at the conclusion that Maher is the first child of Isaiah's wife?

    We have no reason to believe otherwise. Can you provide a good reason to believe that Isaiah had multiple wives?

    Yes. Another element is that the Immanuel child is connected to the Davidic kingship as can be seen in Isaiah 8:8 and Isaiah 9. Any child of Isaiah's could not be connected to the Davidic kingship.

    I think we're done here.
     
  20. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    Why are you still on this? Are you simply not reading what I'm saying?

    Amen!
     
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