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The Vatican gave money to the 2016 campaign of Hillary Clinton

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Root of Jesse, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. Root of Jesse

    Root of Jesse Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord Supporter

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    The money used, according to the book "Dictator Pope", was from the Peter's Pence fund, which is contributed to by every parish in the world.

    If this is true, is it a misuse of this fund? Does it constitute an attempt to influence the politics of the United States, as Russia is being accused of?

    Over a couple of years, I've been made aware of several second collection recipients who do things that are manifestly against the Church's doctrine, like providing money to organizations which promote abortion and birth control. When I become aware of these, I tend to no longer donate to those second collections.
    On another note, though, why would the Vatican be favoring one Presidential campaign over another, especially when that candidate is known to be anti-life?
     
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  2. High Fidelity

    High Fidelity Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's very unfortunate, regardless of candidate or party it's going to.

    I don't imagine many people expect their church donations going to political campaigns.
     
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  3. Root of Jesse

    Root of Jesse Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord Supporter

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    I agree, it's not about the party. It would have troubled me if it was President Trump, and I'm a supporter of his presidency.
     
  4. AvilaSurfer

    AvilaSurfer Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is laughable. The term "Vatican" is thrown around indiscriminately. Also, highly doubtful.
     
  5. High Fidelity

    High Fidelity Well-Known Member Supporter

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    When I give money at church I expect it to go to the needy through food banks, helping support clubs and fellowship at or around the church, upkeep of the church building(several hundred years old) or materials and services to be delivered as part of the church's services for the congregation and in outreach.

    I'd frankly feel betrayed if I found out it had been used for that end.
     
  6. Root of Jesse

    Root of Jesse Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord Supporter

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    Who controls Peter's Pence? That's the specific fund that was used to make the donation.
     
  7. LivingWordUnity

    LivingWordUnity Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic

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    It would be consistent with how Francis praised someone who is Pro-Abortion and consistent with him appointing liberals to positions in the Vatican.

    See:
    Francis calls Italy’s foremost abortion promoter one of nation’s ‘forgotten greats’
    New members of Vatican pro-life academy have defended abortion and contraception
     
  8. DZoolander

    DZoolander Persnickety Member

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    The world, and Christianity, IMHO is not defined by the single issue of Abortion. That issue does not trump all others (no pun intended). Likely, they contribute to every campaign. Also likely if I'm wrong and they contributed to Clinton but not Trump, it's because they felt that the overall theme theme of the Clinton campaign was far more Christian than that of Trump's (given that abortion is not the defining issue).
     
  9. Favourofone

    Favourofone Member

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  10. LivingWordUnity

    LivingWordUnity Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic

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    Abortion is murder, and the most heinous kind since it is the murder of babies. Hillary Clinton made it clear that she was against us who are Pro-Life. She wanted to force us to change our religious beliefs. By contrast, President Trump has kept his promise to help Christians in our fight to keep our religious liberty.
     
  11. DZoolander

    DZoolander Persnickety Member

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    Abortion is one issue out of a million issues.

    ...the collective sum is what then defines how "Christian" the point of view may be.
     
  12. LivingWordUnity

    LivingWordUnity Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic

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    All other rights are secondary to the right to life.
     
  13. DZoolander

    DZoolander Persnickety Member

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    Take the Bible in it's totality, read all of the issues that it addresses, and then weigh it against the platforms of both parties.
     
  14. AvilaSurfer

    AvilaSurfer Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Allegedly.
     
  15. DZoolander

    DZoolander Persnickety Member

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    Listen to the audience cheer at the prospect of those unable to afford insurance dying. Yep - that's the "Christian" party.
     
  16. DZoolander

    DZoolander Persnickety Member

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    But hey - so long as they give impotent lip service to the pro life movement - that's the important thing. lol
     
  17. LivingWordUnity

    LivingWordUnity Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic

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    "Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law: 'You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish. God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.'" - Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2271

    "Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. 'A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,' 'by the very commission of the offense,' and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law. The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society." - CCC, 2272

    "From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a 'criminal' practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life." - CCC, 2322

    "The moral gravity of procured abortion is apparent in all its truth if we recognize that we are dealing with murder.... The one eliminated is a human being at the very beginning of life." - Pope St. John Paul II


    Also see these articles (links):
    Scientific American: Scientists Discover Children’s Cells Living in Mothers’ Brains
    Smithsonian: Baby’s Cells Can Manipulate Mom’s Body for Decades
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  18. DZoolander

    DZoolander Persnickety Member

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    And then there's every other issue of how to behave in society as well.
     
  19. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    If that happened in the United States, the church would likely lose their non-profit status.
     
  20. rturner76

    rturner76 The silent majority needs to wake up Supporter

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    I think they gave the money to Clinton if they did it was because Progressives are more concerned about the plight of the poor, equal education and healthcare for all. This is the way of Christianity but to a Pure Capitalist it is Communism.
     
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