The Value of Thoughts and Prayers

[Ophiolite]

I respectfully suggest all readers of the attached link approach it with an open mind and any agenda firmly locked in a time-vault. That way they might learn something interesting. (Or not. Life is strange that way.)

Linda Thunströma, and Shiri Noy "The value of thoughts and prayers" PNAS October 1, 2019 116 (40) 19763-19764

Abstract
A standard response of both policy makers and private citizens to hardships—from natural disasters to mass shootings—is to offer “thoughts and prayers.” Critics argue that such gestures are meaningless and may obstruct structural reforms intended to mitigate catastrophes. In this study, we elicit the value of receiving thoughts and prayers from strangers following adversity. We find that Christians value thoughts and prayers from religious strangers and priests, while atheists and agnostics are “prayer averse”—willing to pay to avoid receiving prayers. Furthermore, while indifferent to receiving thoughts from other secular people, they negatively value thoughts from Christians.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Thoughts and prayers = be warmed and fed.

 

[Tanj]

Fascinating. Thanks for the find.

On a similar topic, I am constantly bombarded at work to sign cards for birthdays, baby showers, blah de blah stuff for work colleagues I have close to 0 social interaction with.

Yesterday the cake was took when I was asked to sign a condolence card for a colleague who's grandparent had died. I mean seriously, why would anyone that barely knows me be interested in me writing sorry with reference to their dead relative I didn't know at all?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

People vary in the value they put on the idea or feeling that someone may be praying for them? is that it, or did I miss the point?

 

[Chesterton]

Well that's the dumbest thing I've read all day, and earlier today I read the screenplay of Porky's Revenge. This has got The Onion written all over it. I'm reminded of the quote from G. K. Chesterton: "Oscar Wilde said that sunsets were not valued because we could not pay for sunsets. But Oscar Wilde was wrong; we can pay for sunsets. We can pay for them by not being Oscar Wilde."

 

[eleos1954]

I respectfully suggest all readers of the attached link approach it with an open mind and any agenda firmly locked in a time-vault. That way they might learn something interesting. (Or not. Life is strange that way.)

Linda Thunströma, and Shiri Noy "The value of thoughts and prayers" PNAS October 1, 2019 116 (40) 19763-19764

Abstract
A standard response of both policy makers and private citizens to hardships—from natural disasters to mass shootings—is to offer “thoughts and prayers.” Critics argue that such gestures are meaningless and may obstruct structural reforms intended to mitigate catastrophes. In this study, we elicit the value of receiving thoughts and prayers from strangers following adversity. We find that Christians value thoughts and prayers from religious strangers and priests, while atheists and agnostics are “prayer averse”—willing to pay to avoid receiving prayers. Furthermore, while indifferent to receiving thoughts from other secular people, they negatively value thoughts from Christians.

The nice thing about prayer it can not be bought, sold or ultimately stopped. People will never know how many prayers (silently) go out for them ... but the Lord does.

I have atheist/agnostic friends and although I do not pray for them in front of them, as it makes them feel uncomfortable (I get that) ... I do pray for them silently a lot!

 

[46AND2]

The thing I took from it is that it seems both religious and non-religious lack respect for people who think differently than they. For atheists/agnostics, why would thoughts from a religious person be more negatively valued than thoughts from another atheist/agnostic? And vice versa for Christians.

edit: For me, the value is not based on what religious view the person is, but how genuine and empathetic I perceive them to be...so naturally, I would value them more from friends and acquaintances than complete strangers--for whom I am largely indifferent (though there are exceptions, both positive and negative, religious and non).

 

[SkyWriting]

I respectfully suggest all readers of the attached link approach it with an open mind and any agenda firmly locked in a time-vault. That way they might learn something interesting. (Or not. Life is strange that way.)

Linda Thunströma, and Shiri Noy "The value of thoughts and prayers" PNAS October 1, 2019 116 (40) 19763-19764

Abstract
A standard response of both policy makers and private citizens to hardships—from natural disasters to mass shootings—is to offer “thoughts and prayers.” Critics argue that such gestures are meaningless and may obstruct structural reforms intended to mitigate catastrophes. In this study, we elicit the value of receiving thoughts and prayers from strangers following adversity. We find that Christians value thoughts and prayers from religious strangers and priests, while atheists and agnostics are “prayer averse”—willing to pay to avoid receiving prayers. Furthermore, while indifferent to receiving thoughts from other secular people, they negatively value thoughts from Christians.

There is never a bad reason for prayer. This trumps.

 

[Occams Barber]

I respectfully suggest all readers of the attached link approach it with an open mind and any agenda firmly locked in a time-vault. That way they might learn something interesting. (Or not. Life is strange that way.)

Linda Thunströma, and Shiri Noy "The value of thoughts and prayers" PNAS October 1, 2019 116 (40) 19763-19764

Abstract
A standard response of both policy makers and private citizens to hardships—from natural disasters to mass shootings—is to offer “thoughts and prayers.” Critics argue that such gestures are meaningless and may obstruct structural reforms intended to mitigate catastrophes. In this study, we elicit the value of receiving thoughts and prayers from strangers following adversity. We find that Christians value thoughts and prayers from religious strangers and priests, while atheists and agnostics are “prayer averse”—willing to pay to avoid receiving prayers. Furthermore, while indifferent to receiving thoughts from other secular people, they negatively value thoughts from Christians.

I think prayers can reasonably be offered to a non-religious person where they represent an expression of real empathy. Unfortunately, this is often not the case.

From my experience on CF, tagging a post from an atheist or agnostic with a Prayer icon is often an expression of sarcasm or, worse still, the kind of smug self-righteousness which is often a hallmark of Christian piety.

Prayer tags are also used judgementally to subtly impugn the character of the poster or the subject of the post. In effect the Prayer icon becomes a covert way of expressing a negative opinion without having to provide justification. From my point of view posters who use Prayer icons as negative commentary lack the courage of their convictions, the wit to express them - or both.

As an atheist I would consider it hypocritical and insulting for me to tag a Christian post with a prayer icon. I expect the same courtesy from Christians.

OB

 

[46AND2]

I think prayers can reasonably be offered to a non-religious person where they represent an expression of real empathy. Unfortunately, this is often not the case.

From my experience on CF, tagging a post from an atheist or agnostic with a Prayer icon is often an expression of sarcasm or, worse still, the kind of smug self-righteousness which is often a hallmark of Christian piety.

Prayer tags are also used judgementally to subtly impugn the character of the poster or the subject of the post. In effect the Prayer icon becomes a covert way of expressing a negative opinion without having to provide justification. From my point of view posters who use Prayer icons as negative commentary lack the courage of their convictions, the wit to express them - or both.

As an atheist I would consider it hypocritical and insulting for me to tag a Christian post with a prayer icon. I expect the same courtesy from Christians.

OB

I have seen them used that way. However, I have been given 4 prayer icons, and they were reasonable enough. Typically, if I recall correctly, they were on posts where I was expressing struggles I have gone through, either in life or my deconversion.

I have given none.

 

[Occams Barber]

I have seen them used that way. However, I have been given 4 prayer icons, and they were reasonable enough. Typically, if I recall correctly, they were on posts where I was expressing struggles I have gone through, either in life or my deconversion.

I have given none.

I've received 14 Prayer icons since I joined CF in 2012. None were related to posts where empathy was appropriate.

Most were the subtle negative commentary I've talked about.

Several, from a particular CF member, struck me as the equivalent of using garlic to ward off the Vampires.

I've also never given a Prayer icon.
OB

 

[SLP]

I think prayers can reasonably be offered to a non-religious person where they represent an expression of real empathy. Unfortunately, this is often not the case.

From my experience on CF, tagging a post from an atheist or agnostic with a Prayer icon is often an expression of sarcasm or, worse still, the kind of smug self-righteousness which is often a hallmark of Christian piety.

Prayer tags are also used judgementally to subtly impugn the character of the poster or the subject of the post. In effect the Prayer icon becomes a covert way of expressing a negative opinion without having to provide justification. From my point of view posters who use Prayer icons as negative commentary lack the courage of their convictions, the wit to express them - or both.

As an atheist I would consider it hypocritical and insulting for me to tag a Christian post with a prayer icon. I expect the same courtesy from Christians.

OB

I agree with these sentiments, and I can see why the study indicated that atheists find prayers from the religious distasteful. In my general experience, being told "I'll pray for you" is NOT stated as a means of expressing concern - I am usually told this when I explain that I am an atheist. IOW, the Christian says they will pray for me out of pity or 'protection' or disdain. So yes, that irks me. It is disrespectful and condescending.
Somewhat related to this is the notion of 'respecting' the beliefs of others - by and large, in my experience, the more religious a person is, the less they respect the beliefs of others. Does little Ben Shapiro respect Hinduism? Of course he doesn't. This disdain is often very subtle - for a few years, my wife and I lived close by her mother and grandmother. We routinely went to one of their homes for holidays, where we were expected to take part in their religious rituals - giving thanks at Thanksgiving (literally), praying before dinner on the solstice, etc. We took part because it was their home, their tradition, and they expected us to take part for the same reasons.. When we became more established and independent, we started having such holiday get togethers at our house. However, they STILL expected us to respect their religious traditions, even though it was our house. Her granny was taken aback when we declined to do so, and defiantly bowed her head in prayer as we were passing grub around the table, to stick it to us.
Same with the whole 'prayer in school' and 10 commandments in public areas, etc. I find it hard to respect the beliefs and religiously-motivated actions (e.g., prayer) of those that do not even pretend to want to reciprocate.

 

[pitabread]

I've received 14 Prayer icons since I joined CF in 2012. None were related to posts where empathy was appropriate.

Most were the subtle negative commentary I've talked about.

I've noticed the same. Often times (at least in this forum), prayers are used in a wholly passive aggressive fashion.

 

[jayem]

I don't mind receiving thoughts and prayers. Sure, the expression is trite, but it's nice to know people are concerned with your wellbeing at a difficult time.

And there can be benefit in prayer. To the person who's praying. It can lower heart rate, blood pressure, and levels of stress hormones. Although non-religious meditation can do the same. But its greatest value is that it provides one who believes in prayer with a sense of doing something worthwhile in a situation where he can do nothing else. And I see nothing wrong with that.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

... its greatest value is that it provides one who believes in prayer with a sense of doing something worthwhile in a situation where he can do nothing else.

Maybe, but there's always the nagging suspicion that it's more often used in situations where more could be done, but at greater inconvenience...