The US can easily get out of the red and into the black

[MorkandMindy]

The US pays out 17.7% of GDP on healthcare in contrast with the other developed countries which spend on average a bit under 10.7%.

That 7% average for every man woman and child we waste adds on to costs throughout the economy.

If we could sell everything for 7% less then we would sell a lot more.

 

[MorkandMindy]

What is our deficit?
for many years it has averaged around 500 billion dollars per year,

as a fraction of our 20 Trillion GDP that is just 2.5%

And because much of what we sell is price sensitive.

a 7% price drop would increase sales enough to turn our sales deficit into a surplus

It has been healthcare costs, the money we hand to health insurance billionaires in particular, and waste on the incredibly complex administration, pain and heartache as well, that keeps us in deficit.

 

[iluvatar5150]

What is our deficit?
for many years it has averaged around 500 billion dollars per year,

as a fraction of our 20 Trillion GDP that is just 2.5%

And because much of what we sell is price sensitive.

a 7% price drop would increase sales enough to turn our sales deficit into a surplus

It has been healthcare costs, the money we hand to health insurance billionaires in particular, and waste on the incredibly complex administration, pain and heartache as well, that keeps us in deficit.

 

[Albion]

The US pays out 17.7% of GDP on healthcare in contrast with the other developed countries which spend on average a bit under 10.7%.

That 7% average for every man woman and child we waste adds on to costs throughout the economy.

If we could sell everything for 7% less then we would sell a lot more.

However, we get better service for our money. Some of the countries that are praised by people who don't know better have waiting times for essential surgery as long as six months. So the people who can afford it go to some other country to get treated.

We take for granted in this country that an ambulance will be at your home in minutes if needed, that surgery can be scheduled within a few days, and if there is an injury, you can always get help from professionals at some Med Center (if not from your own physician) at almost any time.

 

[Arcangl86]

What is our deficit?
for many years it has averaged around 500 billion dollars per year,

as a fraction of our 20 Trillion GDP that is just 2.5%

And because much of what we sell is price sensitive.

a 7% price drop would increase sales enough to turn our sales deficit into a surplus

It has been healthcare costs, the money we hand to health insurance billionaires in particular, and waste on the incredibly complex administration, pain and heartache as well, that keeps us in deficit.

The deficit is just public spending i.e. the federal government. Most health care spending in the US is private, so even if we were able to suddenly reduce the amount of money we spend on healthcare as a percentage of GDP, it wouldn't necessarily effect our deficit.

 

[MorkandMindy]

However, we get better service for our money. Some of the countries that are praised by people who don't know better have waiting times for essential surgery as long as six months. So the people who can afford it go to some other country to get treated.

We take for granted in this country that an ambulance will be at your home in minutes if needed, that surgery can be scheduled within a few days, and if there is an injury, you can always get help from professionals at some Med Center (if not from your own physician) at almost any time.

My own experience has shown me the opposite, and the numbers also show the opposite

 

[Albion]

The chart tracks life expectancy.

 

[cow451]

However, we get better service for our money. Some of the countries that are praised by people who don't know better have waiting times for essential surgery as long as six months. So the people who can afford it go to some other country to get treated.

We take for granted in this country that an ambulance will be at your home in minutes if needed, that surgery can be scheduled within a few days, and if there is an injury, you can always get help from professionals at some Med Center (if not from your own physician) at almost any time.

You must live at the Firehouse. I worked for a Level 3 Trauma center hospital that couldn’t get an ambulance to an emergency in the parking lot in less than 30 min.

 

[Fantine]

My husband went into insulin shock in South Korea. The ambulance came in minutes. The ER had an IV in in a few minutes.

And I waited three months here for a knee replacement.

 

[DaisyDay]

The chart tracks life expectancy.

Life expectancy on the X-axis and health expenditure per capita on the Y-axis. We in the USA spend more and live less.

 

[Occams Barber]

However, we get better service for our money. Some of the countries that are praised by people who don't know better have waiting times for essential surgery as long as six months. So the people who can afford it go to some other country to get treated.

We take for granted in this country that an ambulance will be at your home in minutes if needed, that surgery can be scheduled within a few days, and if there is an injury, you can always get help from professionals at some Med Center (if not from your own physician) at almost any time.

Your view of the US health system is a common misperception. When it comes to waiting times the US doesn't do spectacularly well. From memory there is significant variability across the country.

Health Care Wait Times By Country 2021 (worldpopulationreview.com)

A common misconception in the U.S. is that countries with universal health care have much longer wait times. However, data from nations with universal coverage, and historical data from coverage expansion in the United States, show that patients in other nations have similar or shorter wait times...

The U.S. was on the higher side for the share of people who sometimes, rarely, or never get an answer from their regular doctor on the same day at 28%. Canada had the highest at 33% and Switzerland had the lowest at 12%. The U.S. was towards the lower end for the share of people waiting one month or more for a specialist appointment at 27%. Canada and Norway tied for the highest at 61% each and Switzerland had the lowest at 23%.

OB





​

 

[Albion]

Your view of the US health system is a common misperception. When it comes to waiting times the US doesn't do spectacularly well.

I'm surprised since everything that I reported I can vouch for from personal experience.

 

[Occams Barber]

I'm surprised since everything that I reported I can vouch for from personal experience.

As you know, we don't place a lot of faith in anecdotal evidence as a substitute for data.

I think, from memory, I've read something about this, suggesting that there is a fair bit of variability in wait times across the US. You may be in one of the better areas.

NB In post 4 you queried life expectancy data. It's generally accepted that life expectancy can be taken as a broad indicator of the effectiveness of a medical system. US life expectancy is dropping. You might also look at infant mortality data for the US. It isn't good.

In the past I've quoted from 5 separate international assessments of medical systems. Four out of five studies rated the US last out of 12 comparable countries. The fifth rated US second last. The good news is that you do well with some cancers and some heart conditions.
Trumps 30 Biggest Broken Promises - Terrible

OB

 

[Albion]

Almost all of what you wrote there is unsupported.

 

[Occams Barber]

Almost all of what you wrote there is unsupported.

OK - lets look at that. These are the things I wrote in Post 13:

I think, from memory, I've read something about this, suggesting that there is a fair bit of variability in wait times across the US. You may be in one of the better areas.

I provided links and quotes from the source on wait times in Post 11. I didn't provide a source for variability across the US but I did say "I think from memory". The point is trivial.

NB In post 4 you queried life expectancy data. It's generally accepted that life expectancy can be taken as a broad indicator of the effectiveness of a medical system. US life expectancy is dropping. You might also look at infant mortality data for the US. It isn't good.

You had already been given the life expectancy data in Post 6. For the significance of Life Expectancy and health services here's a quote from the OECD.
From Health status - Life expectancy at birth - OECD Data

Gains in life expectancy at birth can be attributed to a number of factors, including rising living standards, improved lifestyle and better education, as well as greater access to quality health services
​

In the past I've quoted from 5 separate international assessments of medical systems. Four out of five studies rated the US last out of 12 comparable countries. The fifth rated US second last. The good news is that you do well with some cancers and some heart conditions.
Trumps 30 Biggest Broken Promises - Terrible

If you'd bothered to use the link I supplied to a past post (see quote above) you would have found detail of the studies along with sources. This includes infant mortality data.

OB

 

[KCfromNC]

Life expectancy on the X-axis and health expenditure per capita on the Y-axis. We in the USA spend more and live less.

Maybe the chart needs to track something more important - maybe replace "life expectancy" with "FRREDOM!"?

 

[Quartermaine]

However, we get better service for our money. Some of the countries that are praised by people who don't know better have waiting times for essential surgery as long as six months.

Evidence?

So the people who can afford it go to some other country to get treated.

evidence?

We take for granted in this country that an ambulance will be at your home in minutes if needed, that surgery can be scheduled within a few days, and if there is an injury, you can always get help from professionals at some Med Center (if not from your own physician) at almost any time.

just like in countries with single payer medical.

 

[DaisyDay]

However, we get better service for our money. Some of the countries that are praised by people who don't know better have waiting times for essential surgery as long as six months.

Same here with the addition that here if you can't afford it, you don't get it no matter how long you wait. Plus, if you do get it, your savings might be wiped out and you can be put into major debt. Even if your insurance said they would cover it, sometimes they renege; just as often, they refuse to authorize it as a matter of course, only relenting for the most persistent.

So the people who can afford it go to some other country to get treated. And consider yourself lucky if you can even get an accurate price quote ahead of time and that they don't sneak in out of network assistants to jack up the bill.

And here, people who can't afford US prices go to some other country to get treated.

We take for granted in this country that an ambulance will be at your home in minutes if needed, that surgery can be scheduled within a few days, and if there is an injury, you can always get help from professionals at some Med Center (if not from your own physician) at almost any time.

That depends on your particular area. Most of us are so aware of the steep price of ambulance service that we avoid it unless we are either unconscious or in danger of dying on the spot.

 

[seeking.IAM]

The U.S. can't get out of the red without doing something about the defense budget. The elephant in the room is not health care.

 

[iluvatar5150]

The U.S. can't get out of the red without doing something about the defense budget. The elephant in the room is not health care.

Yes it is. The Medicare budget is slightly larger than the DOD budget and Medicaid isn't far behind. And that doesn't include private insurance at all.