The United States does not deserve our loyalty

Sam81

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In fact, I give my loyalty to Russia over the United States. I am a Christian, and a follower of Jesus Christ.

When Jesus walked this earth - people expected Him to oppose the Roman occupation. He didn't. His Kingdom is not of this world.

The fact of the matter is that the United States, and the west in general, is full of wickedness. The leaders of these lands have allowed all sorts of degeneracy to have voice in western lands. The culture is based around self. Everything is centered around self.

Russians look at what is happening in the west and shake their heads. Someone please tell me why, as a Christian, I should give my loyalty to a country that glorifies men dressing up as women? Why should I give my loyalty to a country that glorifies identity and politics of self? Why should I, as a Christian, give my loyalty to a country which produces 99% of the world's smut via the "entertainment industry"? Why should I give my loyalty to a country which bullies the rest of the world and has demonstrated it is not a friend of Christians in other lands?

Are you going to tell me that when the Christians of other lands are being persecuted and suffer because of the actions of this country, I am to give my loyalty to this country instead of them? When Palestinian Christians cry out against the USA - I am to side with the USA? When Christians are being slaughtered in Muslim lands but we do nothing to help them - instead helping the Muslim slaughterers, I am to bless these United States?

I am to give my loyalty to a country which is full of wickedness and be against a country like Russia which is radically traditionalist?

I would honestly rather eat dirt than support the USA over Russia.

Russia is the good guy. America? The bad guy. That's why I support Putin over the USA.

I am a Christian.

Patriotism is very dangerous when the object of one's loyalty is abominable. Any loyalty to the USA should be based on merit. The reason why I don't support this country is because it's wickedness has risen too high and is offensive. I am loyal to Jesus.

If America becomes correct, then I will give my loyalty to America. Right now America is the greater evil and Russia is the lesser. I see no reason as a Christian why this country is deserving of any loyalty whatsoever.
 
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redleghunter

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In fact, I give my loyalty to Russia over the United States. I am a Christian, and a follower of Jesus Christ.

When Jesus walked this earth - people expected Him to oppose the Roman occupation. He didn't. His Kingdom is not of this world.

The fact of the matter is that the United States, and the west in general, is full of wickedness. The leaders of these lands have allowed all sorts of degeneracy to have voice in western lands. The culture is based around self. Everything is centered around self.

Russians look at what is happening in the west and shake their heads. Someone please tell me why, as a Christian, I should give my loyalty to a country that glorifies men dressing up as women? Why should I give my loyalty to a country that glorifies identity and politics of self? Why should I, as a Christian, give my loyalty to a country which produces 99% of the world's smut via the "entertainment industry"? Why should I give my loyalty to a country which bullies the rest of the world and has demonstrated it is not a friend of Christians in other lands?

Are you going to tell me that when the Christians of other lands are being persecuted and suffer because of the actions of this country, I am to give my loyalty to this country instead of them? When Palestinian Christians cry out against the USA - I am to side with the USA? When Christians are being slaughtered in Muslim lands but we do nothing to help them - instead helping the Muslim slaughterers, I am to bless these United States?

I am to give my loyalty to a country which is full of wickedness and be against a country like Russia which is radically traditionalist?

I would honestly rather eat dirt than support the USA over Russia.

Russia is the good guy. America? The bad guy. That's why I support Putin over the USA.

I am a Christian.

Patriotism is very dangerous when the object of one's loyalty is abominable. Any loyalty to the USA should be based on merit. The reason why I don't support this country is because it's wickedness has risen too high and is offensive. I am loyal to Jesus.

If America becomes correct, then I will give my loyalty to America. Right now America is the greater evil and Russia is the lesser. I see no reason as a Christian why this country is deserving of any loyalty whatsoever.
There’s cheap beach front property in Siberia.
 
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In fact, I give my loyalty to Russia over the United States. I am a Christian, and a follower of Jesus Christ.

When Jesus walked this earth - people expected Him to oppose the Roman occupation. He didn't. His Kingdom is not of this world.

The fact of the matter is that the United States, and the west in general, is full of wickedness. The leaders of these lands have allowed all sorts of degeneracy to have voice in western lands. The culture is based around self. Everything is centered around self.

Russians look at what is happening in the west and shake their heads. Someone please tell me why, as a Christian, I should give my loyalty to a country that glorifies men dressing up as women? Why should I give my loyalty to a country that glorifies identity and politics of self? Why should I, as a Christian, give my loyalty to a country which produces 99% of the world's smut via the "entertainment industry"? Why should I give my loyalty to a country which bullies the rest of the world and has demonstrated it is not a friend of Christians in other lands?

Are you going to tell me that when the Christians of other lands are being persecuted and suffer because of the actions of this country, I am to give my loyalty to this country instead of them? When Palestinian Christians cry out against the USA - I am to side with the USA? When Christians are being slaughtered in Muslim lands but we do nothing to help them - instead helping the Muslim slaughterers, I am to bless these United States?

I am to give my loyalty to a country which is full of wickedness and be against a country like Russia which is radically traditionalist?

I would honestly rather eat dirt than support the USA over Russia.

Russia is the good guy. America? The bad guy. That's why I support Putin over the USA.

I am a Christian.

Patriotism is very dangerous when the object of one's loyalty is abominable. Any loyalty to the USA should be based on merit. The reason why I don't support this country is because it's wickedness has risen too high and is offensive. I am loyal to Jesus.

If America becomes correct, then I will give my loyalty to America. Right now America is the greater evil and Russia is the lesser. I see no reason as a Christian why this country is deserving of any loyalty whatsoever.
You live in this world, but as a Christian believer, you are not of it. Your loyalty is to Christ first, your family next, your job after that, the church after that, and maybe other loyalties are further down the list. Satan is the god of this world, and that is why every country in the world is in the same situation as the U.S. I live in little old New Zealand, and we have the same problems here, on a smaller scale, that you have there.

You are placed in that country of yours to make a difference for Christ. You are there to be a shining light in the darkness all around you. Who knows if you have come into the kingdom and placed in your country for a time like this?

You are not going to win your whole country for Christ in one go. But you might be able share Christ with those who come across your path. Just winning one person to Christ will change the history of your country, because, who knows, that person may go on in the power of the Holy Spirit and win thousands to Christ and change history more dramatically.

Paul conducted his ministry among total pagans, much darker than the U.S. He did not go to them with the enticing words of man's wisdom, but with the demonstration and power of the Holy Spirit. Read through the Book of Acts and see what were the elements of the gospel that brought whole towns and communities to Christ. In one place, just one guy got healed of lameness, and two whole towns turned to the Lord. One woman got raised from the dead, and the whole city became Christians!

Just think if you shared the gospel with a neighbour with terminal cancer and he got saved and totally healed, and your whole town got saved as a result! Is that changing history, or is that changing history??

I think a lot could happen if we went to prayer, like the Apostles did at the beginning of Acts, praying: "Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Grant me boldness to preach Your word and that signs and wonders be done in the Name of Your holy child Jesus." That might rattle the dishes on your sideboard and you might see the darkness retreating before you!
 
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royal priest

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Jeremiah 29:7,
"seek the peace of the city whither I have caused you to be carried away captives, and pray unto the LORD for it: for in the peace thereof shall ye have peace."
 
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gmanon

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Regardless of what is going on in the government, US is a nation under God that had served as refugee to many people.

We need to stand and don't give up on praying and doing right.

It's not easy now, and neither before. The fight of good versus evil never ends.

Russia is not the land that had stand before God as US had. Don't loose focus. Victory is to remain in the Lord till the end.

It does not matter who wins. Even the devil submit to God, our Father.
 
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Sam81

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I don't have anything against patriotism if it's deserved. I just see things like American exceptionalism and this whole "Red White and Blue" culture we have and wonder why this is so sacred?

I knew this thread would be offensive to some and that's precisely why it needs posting. Maybe people could take a step back and wonder why it's offensive. Have I transgressed against something sacred? If so, why is it sacred? Who made it so? And when? Got any Bible to back it up?

There is no reason for Christians to hold the USA in any high regard whatsoever. We shouldn't be traitors to the land in which we live, lest it reflect poorly on our testimony. But we do not owe this country, or any other country, our moral support.

In response to post #2.

You're right - I live in Ohio. I see flags and crosses. A lot of them. Flags and crosses hanging together.

America has become an idol for many Christians.

Perhaps I should be banned from these forums for blasphemous words. Or flaming. That merely suggesting that America isn't so wonderful could be considered "flaming" just proves my point. Go ahead and do it. Banhammer. Flaming.

Our loyalty is to the resurrected Jesus. Everything else is obsolete and will be burned in fervent heat. It's useless! God doesn't feel the patriotic spirit. The angels don't sing the star spangled banner and never will. They don't have that tune on their setlist. They don't want that tune on their setlist.
 
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Basil the Great

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I don't have anything against patriotism if it's deserved. I just see things like American exceptionalism and this whole "Red White and Blue" culture we have and wonder why this is so sacred?

I knew this thread would be offensive to some and that's precisely why it needs posting. Maybe people could take a step back and wonder why it's offensive. Have I transgressed against something sacred? If so, why is it sacred? Who made it so? And when? Got any Bible to back it up?

There is no reason for Christians to hold the USA in any high regard whatsoever. We shouldn't be traitors to the land in which we live, lest it reflect poorly on our testimony. But we do not owe this country, or any other country, our moral support.

In response to post #2.

You're right - I live in Ohio. I see flags and crosses. A lot of them. Flags and crosses hanging together.

America has become an idol for many Christians.

Perhaps I should be banned from these forums for blasphemous words.
There is some truth to what you say. For some, love of country/their particular brand of politics is almost a religion. This applies to both conservatives and liberals by the way.
 
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I don't have anything against patriotism if it's deserved. I just see things like American exceptionalism and this whole "Red White and Blue" culture we have and wonder why this is so sacred?

I knew this thread would be offensive to some and that's precisely why it needs posting. Maybe people could take a step back and wonder why it's offensive. Have I transgressed against something sacred? If so, why is it sacred? Who made it so? And when? Got any Bible to back it up?

There is no reason for Christians to hold the USA in any high regard whatsoever. We shouldn't be traitors to the land in which we live, lest it reflect poorly on our testimony. But we do not owe this country, or any other country, our moral support.

In response to post #2.

You're right - I live in Ohio. I see flags and crosses. A lot of them. Flags and crosses hanging together.

America has become an idol for many Christians.

Perhaps I should be banned from these forums for blasphemous words. Or flaming. That merely suggesting that America isn't so wonderful could be considered "flaming" just proves my point for me it. Go ahead and do it. Banhammer. Flaming.

Our loyalty is to the resurrected Jesus. Everything else is obsolete and will be burned in fervent heat. It's useless! God doesn't feel the patriotic spirit. The angels don't sing the star spangled banner and never will. They don't have that tune on their setlist. They don't want that tune on their setlist.
You are right, and your post is not blasphemous, nor is it offensive to me. You are totally correct in your last paragraph, and because you have the power that raised Jesus from the dead in you, you can preach the gospel with that same power and help change history and the state of your nation, maybe just one convert at a time.
 
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I don't have anything against patriotism if it's deserved. I just see things like American exceptionalism and this whole "Red White and Blue" culture we have and wonder why this is so sacred?

I knew this thread would be offensive to some and that's precisely why it needs posting. Maybe people could take a step back and wonder why it's offensive. Have I transgressed against something sacred? If so, why is it sacred? Who made it so? And when? Got any Bible to back it up?

There is no reason for Christians to hold the USA in any high regard whatsoever. We shouldn't be traitors to the land in which we live, lest it reflect poorly on our testimony. But we do not owe this country, or any other country, our moral support.

In response to post #2.

You're right - I live in Ohio. I see flags and crosses. A lot of them. Flags and crosses hanging together.

America has become an idol for many Christians.

Perhaps I should be banned from these forums for blasphemous words. Or flaming. That merely suggesting that America isn't so wonderful could be considered "flaming" just proves my point. Go ahead and do it. Banhammer. Flaming.

Our loyalty is to the resurrected Jesus. Everything else is obsolete and will be burned in fervent heat. It's useless! God doesn't feel the patriotic spirit. The angels don't sing the star spangled banner and never will. They don't have that tune on their setlist. They don't want that tune on their setlist.
The problem is that you still showed preference to another country and that raises questions such as why don't you try to live there?
 
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paul1149

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You currently are enjoying the fruits of this nation, while denying it loyalty. That doesn't add up. Properly understood, loyalty doesn't mean you agree with everything. You can be part of the loyal opposition, and speak out against what is wrong. When Israel entered its captivity, the Lord spoke to it through Jeremiah:

'Seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile, and pray to the LORD on its behalf; for in its welfare you will have welfare.' - Jer 29:7 NASB​

You're right that America does not deserve blind loyalty. Our loyalty is first to Christ, and all else must be evaluated in that light.

I'd also be very careful about idealizing Russia. It has its own set of problems.
 
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Romans 13: 1-7 , 1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
 
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In response to post #2.

You're right - I live in Ohio. I see flags and crosses. A lot of them. Flags and crosses hanging together.
That's a response I guess, but not an answer. The question was "why"? Why do you still live here?
 
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You can speak like this and be fine in America.

If you lived in Russia and you spoke against Russia you would arrested and tortured and lucky if allowed to die.




In fact, I give my loyalty to Russia over the United States. I am a Christian, and a follower of Jesus Christ.

When Jesus walked this earth - people expected Him to oppose the Roman occupation. He didn't. His Kingdom is not of this world.

The fact of the matter is that the United States, and the west in general, is full of wickedness. The leaders of these lands have allowed all sorts of degeneracy to have voice in western lands. The culture is based around self. Everything is centered around self.

Russians look at what is happening in the west and shake their heads. Someone please tell me why, as a Christian, I should give my loyalty to a country that glorifies men dressing up as women? Why should I give my loyalty to a country that glorifies identity and politics of self? Why should I, as a Christian, give my loyalty to a country which produces 99% of the world's smut via the "entertainment industry"? Why should I give my loyalty to a country which bullies the rest of the world and has demonstrated it is not a friend of Christians in other lands?

Are you going to tell me that when the Christians of other lands are being persecuted and suffer because of the actions of this country, I am to give my loyalty to this country instead of them? When Palestinian Christians cry out against the USA - I am to side with the USA? When Christians are being slaughtered in Muslim lands but we do nothing to help them - instead helping the Muslim slaughterers, I am to bless these United States?

I am to give my loyalty to a country which is full of wickedness and be against a country like Russia which is radically traditionalist?

I would honestly rather eat dirt than support the USA over Russia.

Russia is the good guy. America? The bad guy. That's why I support Putin over the USA.

I am a Christian.

Patriotism is very dangerous when the object of one's loyalty is abominable. Any loyalty to the USA should be based on merit. The reason why I don't support this country is because it's wickedness has risen too high and is offensive. I am loyal to Jesus.

If America becomes correct, then I will give my loyalty to America. Right now America is the greater evil and Russia is the lesser. I see no reason as a Christian why this country is deserving of any loyalty whatsoever.
 
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Sam81

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The problem is that you still showed preference to another country and that raises questions such as why don't you try to live there?
Because if I tried to live there I would be putting emphasis on earthly things and that's not what I want to do. I use the word loyalty in the original post but that's probably a bad choice of words, but living in the rural mid-west amidst soccer moms and church goers and miniature American flags, I can't help but wonder how Caesar was able to slip so effectively in the back door. To teach one's young, "On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country"? When did the apostles of Jesus Christ, for instance, ever say such a thing?

American exceptionalism has become a sort of idol. I try to be humble and do not presume to have all the answers and I do not always word things or get my point out the best way possible, but this is vexing because there is nothing in God's Word that demonstrates that we should give America any moral support.

When it was the communists vs Reagan's America? Yea, I would DEFINITELY go all in with Mr. Reagan. But it's not that anymore. We have evil people in high places in America and they are using Russia as a boogeyman, feeding off of the historical fear, when Russia is these days more righteous than America in many ways. But it's not just about Russia. It could be any country, and we are expected, as Christians, to give our moral support to this country - no matter how abominable it may be. Because...why? Got Bible? Chapter? Verse? I don't think so.
 
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The world Christ lived in was pretty bad. The Jews had lost their way, committed adultery against God and was about to lose the original covenant, the Romans ruled, there was all sorts of perversion and wickedness. Did Jesus move to Russia? Or anywhere else? No, you can't escape the sinful ways of mankind....it's everywhere!
 
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Because if I tried to live there I would be putting emphasis on earthly things and that's not what I want to do. I use the word loyalty in the original post but that's probably a bad choice of words, but living in the rural mid-west amidst soccer moms and church goers and miniature American flags, I can't help but wonder how Caesar was able to slip so effectively in the back door. To teach one's young, "On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country"? When did the apostles of Jesus Christ, for instance, ever say such a thing?

American exceptionalism has become a sort of idol. I try to be humble and do not presume to have all the answers and I do not always word things or get my point out the best way possible, but this is vexing because there is nothing in God's Word that demonstrates that we should give America any moral support.

When it was the communists vs Reagan's America? Yea, I would DEFINITELY go all in with Mr. Reagan. But it's not that anymore. We have evil people in high places in America and they are using Russia as a boogeyman, feeding off of the historical fear, when Russia is these days more righteous than America in many ways. But it's not just about Russia. It could be any country, and we are expected, as Christians, to give our moral support to this country - no matter how abominable it may be. Because...why? Got Bible? Chapter? Verse? I don't think so.

If you are as young as I think, you have great discernment.
Most young people have no Idea why the dislike the corruption in America.
You respect Russia for standing on their value system even if flawed.
To get where Russia is today, it cost millions of lives.
In doing so it proved communism is a failure.
They tore down the wall because they were starving and depleted.
We are on the edge of darkness, we need young people to speak for America rather than against.
We are a Nation divided, this did not happen over night.
You hate the changes in the last 30 years.
Many a great man in God's Word wanted to run from his call, but you take your Stand here, be a Blessing to this Land and listen for God's still small voice calling you to good works.
 
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