The ultimate explanation of the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

BCsenior

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I entirely agree and I have been sharing this for years...
Cessational theologies are a human invention to account for the lack of
the power of God in the church after the spirit has long gone due to unbelief.
WOW! ... I had no idea that this is where you're at.
This is so obvious ... church leaders w/o spiritual power/gifts
have historically sabotaged God's plan for the church.
Just think of the lives lost due to them NOT experiencing
the FULL gospel ... with its' confirming power gifts!

"... in mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God,
so that from Jerusalem and round about to Illyricum
I have fully preached the gospel of Christ." (Paul, Romans 15:19)
 
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Carl Emerson

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WOW! ... I had no idea that this is where you're at.
This is so obvious ... church leaders w/o spiritual power/gifts
have historically sabotaged God's plan for the church.
Just think of the lives lost due to them NOT experiencing
the FULL gospel ... with its' confirming power gifts!

"... in mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God,
so that from Jerusalem and round about to Illyricum
I have fully preached the gospel of Christ." (Paul, Romans 15:19)

Have you not seen my testimonial thread here...

Jesus's Ministry
 
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devin553344

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But, what do you think about the explanation in the OP re: this difficult topic?
Most will NOT be bothered to delve into it, pray about it, etc.

The latter rain is coming SOON
(along with a great revival in the midst of incredible chaos),
and this latter rain will be much greater than the former rain in Acts!

So, it behooves (is that really a word?) BACs to be prepared for what's coming!

I don't think it's a difficult topic. God blesses his children with fruits of the Holy Spirit. Galatians 5:22-23. And we feel the fruits when we obey the holy spirit. And please the holy spirit.
 
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His student

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There are two basic fundamental Christian experiences: the most important is obviously salvation, and then next is the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Nothing can be done to earn either one!
The 1st experience is when a person is baptized into the church, resulting in being “born again”
(it occurs when the Holy Spirit comes INSIDE). The 2nd experience is when a born-again person receives “the baptism with the Holy Spirit” (and this only occurs when the Holy Spirit
comes UPON a person) and the person is FILLED with the Holy Spirit.
Right on.

Those who tell us that the Holy Spirit experiences in the Book of Acts were the former kind (salvation) are (perhaps unwittingly) teaching that salvation is visited on a person through tarrying for a certain time in a certain place and waiting for salvation, being baptized in water, having hands laid on by a select group of people - and whatever else we see in the Book of Acts.

Basic salvation does not require any of those things. It is by grace through faith.

The activities of the Holy Spirit that we see in Acts are obviously not of the basic salvation type.

Oh - I know - they will tell us that these were "exceptional" cases concerning how one is saved. E.g. - these were just the first giving of the Spirit after Jesus ascended; these were just the first gentiles; etc.

How on earth can any of us know if our assumption that we are not an exception to grace through faith as well is correct?

We can't of course.

The Holy Spirit for salvation comes strictly internally in a secret way - by grace through faith - period.

The second kind of visitation by the Holy Spirit (that we see in the Book of Acts) can happen in any number of ways and any number of times in the life of someone who is already a believer.
 
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BCsenior

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I don't think it's a difficult topic. God blesses his children with fruits of the Holy Spirit. Galatians 5:22-23. And we feel the fruits when we obey the holy spirit. And please the holy spirit.
So, do you agree with the OP?
Most people are not offering an opinion.
Are they comprehending what the OP is presenting?
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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I have always believed this also ... that certain people deleted many words from the original texts
to come up with the NU texts, which survived longer, were in better condition, etc. ...
because they weren't used much!
We don't know what was in the original text because we don't have it. All we have available are copies of the original and the earliest copy is dated the 4th Century AD. Some copies have the Mark 16 verses in it, and others don't. But we cannot know which copies are more faithful to the original because the original has been lost.

If the 4th Century copy had the Mark verses in it, then the scribe who copied it believed that those verses were true. Other later copies might have left the verses out because the scribes didn't include those verses in their theology, because the supernatural gifts would have declined through the church's own fall from true holiness and devotion to Christ and its adoption of pagan practices and ceremonies.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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But, there are obviously 2 Spirit baptisms (as proved in the OP).
I believe there is only one Holy Spirit. I believe it is either in order within us or it is quenched. I do not read anywhere is scripture of two Holy Spirit Baptisms. It is true Jesus breathed and they received however this is not the same as the day of Pentecost when He poured out His Spirit for all who believe.
Additionally, Thomas, one of the 12, was not present. This first experience with the 10 was simply to open up their understanding of what was to come. In other words, this was not that which was spoken of in Joel 2, the outpouring.
Blessings
 
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BCsenior

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I believe there is only one Holy Spirit.
This first experience with the 10 was simply to open up their understanding of what was to come.
We all believe there is only one Holy Spirit.
The first experience (John 20:22) was with the 11.
Immediately afterward, they became 12.

There are a lot of Scripture verses in the OP.
Why don't you read it.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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We all believe there is only one Holy Spirit.
The first experience (John 20:22) was with the 11.
Immediately afterward, they became 12.

There are a lot of Scripture verses in the OP.
Why don't you read it.
I did read the OP verses and I do not read two Holy Spirit baptisms just one for all and for all time until He returns. Instead of listing every scripture that contains reference to the Holy Spirit, maybe give one that reveals two Holy Spirit baptisms. That would at least bring some clarity.
Another thing to keep in mind, if everyone on the day Pentecost received the second baptism, when did they received the first? A minute or two before? An hour before? No, it was one at the same time. One baptism.
Blessings
 
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There is only one Holy Spirit baptism, and that is the receiving of the Spirit.

Ephesians 4:5 says,
"One Lord, one faith, one baptism,"

The disciples were born again spiritually in their heart by the Spirit by their believing in Jesus and the Son (the 1st Comforter) lived inside of them (giving them eternal life). While their hearts were changed spiritually by the Holy Spirit (and the Spirit worked in their lives), the Spirit did not live in them yet until Jesus breathed the Spirit on to them (Thereby giving them another Comforter). Pentecost was the baptism of the Spirit via for 3,000 thousand Messianic Jews (and not the Jews on a national level). The conversion of Cornelius (and his acceptance of the gospel) was the baptism of the Spirit to show that Gentiles are now accepted into God's plan of salvation, as well.

When men of God (in the early church) accepted the gospel, many times they received the Spirit, and this would include the gifts. In one instance, the Spirit did not come upon certain individuals, and so they sent Peter and John so that they might pray for them to receive the Spirit. When that happened, they received the Spirit with power. Simon the sorcerer had seen this as gaining power, and he thought he could buy the Spirit (Which showed his heart was not right with God). This proves that with the receiving of the Spirit, comes with the power of the Spirit. So there is not two Spirit baptisms (See Acts of the Apostles 8:9-24). For Cornelius and his household had spoke in tongues when the Spirit first came upon them. Speaking in tongues is one of the many gifts of the Spirit. Cornelius to our knowledge never received the gospel before and or the Spirit before Peter came to his house (See Acts of the Apostles 10:44-46).
 
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There is also going to be no "Latter Rain Event." There is no Scriptural basis for it. Rain just means rain in the book of Joel. The Bible does not talk about how there is going to be some great revival in the last days. The Bible actually talks about how in the last days, men shall depart from the faith (2 Timothy 3:1-9). In Revelation 20:4, we learn that believers in the End Times will be beheaded for the Word of God and they will live again so as to reign with Christ in the Millennium. There will be no secret elite super Christian group of Christians taking over nations in the future (i.e. the "Manifestation of the Sons of God doctrine" as per the Latter Rain movement).
 
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Bill Hamon (of the Latter Rain movement) predicted that there would be a great spiritual influx of miracles in 1997 like that of the time of Moses.

Did it come to pass?
No.

Bill Hamon (of the Latter Rain movement) also predicted bad things in Y2K in 1999. Did it happen?

No.
 
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BCsenior

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More re: the ultimate explanation of the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

Holy Spirit INSIDE -- Holy Spirit UPON

John 14:16-23 ------- Luke 24:49
abide with you ------ upon
dwells with you ----- the promise
will be in you ------ power
I in you
come to him --------- Acts 1:4-8
with him ------------ upon
--------------------- the promise
John 15:4-5 --------- power
I in you ------------ baptized with the H.S.
I in him ------------ the gift


Romans 8:11 --------- Acts 2:1-4
dwells in you ------- upon
dwells in you ------- filled with the H.S.
--------------------- speaking in tongues
1 Corinthians 3:16
dwells in you ------- Acts 8:14-19
--------------------- upon
Galatians 4:6 ------- power
into your hearts ---- laying on of hands

2 Timothy 1:14 ------ Acts 10:44-48
dwells in us -------- upon
--------------------- speaking in tongues
1 John 3:24 --------- the gift
He in him
abides in us -------- Acts 11:15-17
given (to) us ------- upon
--------------------- baptized with the H.S.
1 John 4:12-16 ------ the gift
abides in us
He in us ------------ Acts 19:5-6
given (to) us ------- upon
abides in him ------- speaking in tongues
God in him ---------- laying on of hands
--------------------- prophecy
 
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BCsenior

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... if everyone on the day Pentecost received the second baptism, when did they received the first? A minute or two before? An hour before? No, it was one at the same time. One baptism.
The OP explains who received the Holy Spirit for salvation, and when.
The OP explains who received the baptism with the Holy Spirit, and when.
Why don't you read it?
 
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There is only one Holy Spirit baptism, and that is the receiving of the Spirit.

Ephesians 4:5 says, "One Lord, one faith, one baptism,"
So, that's why you are so nasty about the latter rain.

Hebrews 6:2 says, "the doctrine of baptisms"
 
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Maria Billingsley

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The OP explains who received the Holy Spirit for salvation, and when.
The OP explains who received the baptism with the Holy Spirit, and when.
Why don't you read it?
Well you have a lens that see's the work of the Holy Spirit as two where I see it as one. Maybe it is best to come to a compromise. Baptism that includes infilling.
 
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The question is: Does the Holy Spirit indwell a believer at conversion, go away again, and come back and indwell, or fill the believer again? If we use our common sense, instead of leaving our brains at home when we go to church, which would be the more feasible?
 
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Maria Billingsley

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The question is: Does the Holy Spirit indwell a believer at conversion, go away again, and come back and indwell, or fill the believer again? If we use our common sense, instead of leaving our brains at home when we go to church, which would be the more feasible?
See below

The question is: Does the Holy Spirit indwell a believer at conversion,YES
go away again, NO, IT GETS QUENCHED. and come back and indwell, or fill the believer again? THE HOLY SPIRIT NEVER LEAVES HE IS QUENCHED AND CAN BE FREELY ACCESSED THROUGH OBEDIENCE. If we use our common sense, instead of leaving our brains at home when we go to church, which would be the more feasible? SEE ABOVE
 
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Well you have a lens that see's the work of the Holy Spirit as two where I see it as one. Maybe it is best to come to a compromise. Baptism that includes infilling.
The main passage that the second blessing people rely on is the one where Paul asked the Ephesian disciples whether they had received the Holy Spirit since they believed, and they replied that they didn't know anything about a Holy Spirit, because they had the baptism of John the Baptiser. This means that these disciples were still under the Old Covenant, believing in the Messiah to come. When Paul explained that the Messiah has arrived and his Name is Jesus Christ who died on the cross for their sins and was raise from the dead to give them eternal life, the moment they believed in Jesus, the Holy Spirit fell on them and brought them into the New Covenant. This means that they were converted to Christ and baptised with the Spirit at the same time.

So, an accurate exegesis of the passage and an understanding that those who were baptised and believe under John the Baptiser, the last Old Covenant prophet, weakens support for a second blessing baptism with the Spirit, and strengthens support for the baptism with the Spirit happening at the same time as conversion to Christ.
 
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