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Featured The ultimate explanation of the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by BCsenior, Aug 19, 2019.

  1. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    There are two basic fundamental Christian experiences: the most important is obviously salvation, and then next is the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Nothing can be done to earn either one!
    The 1st experience is when a person is baptized into the church, resulting in being “born again”
    (it occurs when the Holy Spirit comes INSIDE). The 2nd experience is when a born-again person receives “the baptism with the Holy Spirit” (and this only occurs when the Holy Spirit
    comes UPON a person) and the person is FILLED with the Holy Spirit.

    The problem with accepting the reality of the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms is that churches today believe
    so differently than the NT churches! Satan has been successful in deceiving the church about several things, and this includes the baptism with the Holy Spirit and the 9 spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:1-11). Prophecy, tongues and the other gifts will vanish away when that which is perfect (Jesus) has come. Then the gifts will no longer be needed, but they are needed now.

    FIRST It all began hereJesus gave the Holy Spirit to His 11 disciples

    “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, I am sending you.”
    Then He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.”
    (John 20:21-22, NLT)
    “… it was then that they were born again of the Spirit. This is when they received true and full faith … spiritual life.” (The Applied New Testament Commentary, 1996, Dr. Thomas Hale, medical missionary to Nepal)

    It is the Holy Spirit who baptizes new believers into the church
    “For by one (Holy) Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.”
    (Paul, 1 Corinthians 12:13, NASB)


    New believers, all born-again Christians, receive the Holy Spirit INSIDE
    (
    John 14:16-23, John 15:4-5, Romans 8:11, 1 Corinthians 3:16,
    Galatians 4:6, 2 Timothy 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16).


    “Anyone who is thirsty may come to Me! Anyone who believes in Me may come and drink! For the Scriptures declare, ‘Rivers of living water will flow from his heart.’ ” When He said “living water”, he was speaking of the (Holy) Spirit, who would be given to everyone believing in Him.” (Jesus, John 7:37-39, NLT)

    Meanwhile, John the Baptist was prophesying …
    It is Jesus Himself who will be baptizing believers with the Holy Spirit
    (Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33).


    “He who sent me to baptize with water said to me,
    Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him,
    this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ ” (John 1:33).

    As usual, John is more in-depth about spiritual things!
    Jesus will “baptize with the Holy Spirit” (some people, not all)
    … when He sends the Holy Spirit “upon” whomever He chooses!


    SECOND Jesus “promised” His disciples that they would receive “the gift”
    of the baptism with the Holy Spirit, which would result in spiritual power


    ● “Behold, I send the promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem
    until you are endued with power from on high.”
    (Jesus, Luke 24:49)

    ● “Do not leave Jerusalem until the Father sends you the gift He promised,
    as I told you before [Luke 24:49]. John baptized with water, but in just a few days
    you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” (Jesus, Acts 1:4, NLT)


    ● “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be
    My witnesses, telling people about Me everywhere …”
    (Jesus, Acts 1:8, NLT)

    The baptism with the Holy Spirit was the gift Jesus had promised. This occurs when the Holy Spirit comes upon a person and he/she is filled with the Holy Spirit, which results in spiritual power.
    This “power” that Jesus gives is usually an anointing for some type of ministry.


    THIRD Jesus’ 11 disciples surely witnessed to other people and
    although it is not mentioned, some surely became born-again Christians


    “During this time, when about 120 believers (footnote: brothers) were together
    in one place, Peter stood up and addressed them. “Brothers …” (Acts 1:15, NLT)


    “While Jesus’ disciples were waiting for the gift of the Holy Spirit, they all joined together constantly
    in prayer. It is mainly through praye that we obtain the power of the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13) …
    In addition to Jesus’ main disciples, there were in Jerusalem at that time about 120 other believers. ... Many Christians say that sometime after having put faith in Christ and having received the Holy Spirit the first time, they then have experienced a new filling of the Spirit. These Christians call this new experience of the Spirit a “second blessing” or “the baptism with the Spirit”. They are filled with the Spirit in a new and deeper way, and they receive a new power and zeal”

    (The Applied New Testament Commentary, 1996, Dr. Thomas Hale, medical missionary to Nepal)

    FOURTH Days later, Jesus’ 12 disciples (and others) experienced the Day of Pentecost

    “On the day of Pentecost all the (120) believers were meeting together in one place. Suddenly, there was a sound from heaven like the roaring of a mighty windstorm, and it filled the house where they were sitting. Then what looked like flames or tongues of fire appeared and settled on each of them. And everyone present was filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking with other tongues, as the Holy Spirit gave them this ability.”
    (Acts 2:1-4, NLT)


    Peter tried to explain all of this to other Jews who were present
    “And the Father, as He had promised, gave Him (Jesus) the Holy Spirit to pour out upon us, just as you see and hear today … Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be (water) baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is to you, and to your children, and even to the Gentiles – all who have been called by the Lord our God.”
    (Acts 2:33-39, NLT)

    To repeat with emphasis re: the baptism with the Holy Spirit …
    “This promise is to you, and to your children, and even to the Gentiles –-
    all who have been called by the Lord our God.”
    (Acts 2:39, NLT)

    “Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them (the high priest and others) …
    Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated and untrained men, they marvelled ... And seeing the man who had
    been healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it ...
    For, indeed, that a notable miracle has been done through them is evident to all …”
    (Acts 4:8-16)


    Before Pentecost, most probably all of the 120 had been water baptized.
    Please notice that the promise and the gift refer to what the 120 believers
    received on the Day of Pentecost, which was the baptism with the Holy Spirit
    … as the Spirit came UPON them and they were FILLED with the Holy Spirit
    to over-flowing! Any of the 120 who had NOT yet been born-again,
    must have received both Spirit baptisms simultaneously!
    Yes, some people today all over the world receive both at the same time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
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  2. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    Other examples of the baptism with the Holy Spirit

    ● “And when they had prayed … they (the companions of Peter and John) were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness” (Acts 4:31)

    ● “… the people of Samaria had accepted God’s message … As soon as they (Peter and John) arrived, they prayed for these new believers to receive the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them, for they had only been (water) baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John laid their hands upon these believers(*), and they received the Holy Spirit. When Simon saw that the Spirit was given when the apostles laid their hands on people … “Let me have this power, too”, he exclaimed, “so when I lay my hands on people, they will receive the Holy Spirit!” (Acts 8:14-19 NLT)
    (*) the Samarians

    ● “And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, ‘Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus … has sent me that you may receive your sight and be
    filled with the Holy Spirit.’ Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales,
    and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was (water) baptized.”
    (Acts 9:17-18, concerning Paul)

    The result of Paul’s baptism with the Holy Spirit …
    “… in mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God …
    I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.”
    (Paul, Romans 15:19)

    Spiritual power is God’s anointing through the Holy Spirit …
    “He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out,
    and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease.” (Matthew 10:1)


    ● “… the Holy Spirit fell upon all those (Gentiles) who heard the word … the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they (Peter and his companions) heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter asked, ‘Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be (water) baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?’ And he commanded them to be (water) baptized in the name of the Lord.“
    (Acts 10:44-48)


    ● “… the Holy Spirit fell upon them (the Gentiles), as upon us (the Jews) at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ … God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ” (Acts 11:15-17)

    ● “… they (the Ephesian disciples) were (water) baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied …” (Acts 19:5-6)

    One thing we can say about “upon”: it points to the passages which refer to the baptism with the Holy Spirit -- even though it is not mentioned on every occasion. (When an event is reported, usually not all of the details are mentioned.) However, the most important thing is for a born-again person to be filled with the Holy Spirit to overflowing!

    Please notice how the different items below are linked together:

    .............Luke <------------- Acts ---------------->
    ..............24: 1: .2: .2: 4: 4: .8: 9: .10: 11: 19:
    ..............49 4-8 1-4 33+ 8+ 31 14+ 17+ 44+ 15+ 5-6
    ......promise ●...●.......●..........................
    .........upon ●...●...●.............●.......●...●...●
    ........power ●...●.................●................
    baptized w/HS ....●.............................●....
    ..filled w/HS ........●.......●..●......●............
    ......tongues ........●.....................●.......●
    .........gift ....●.......●.............. ..●...●....
    ........hands ......................●...●...........●
    .....boldness ................●..●...................
    .....miracles ................●..........●...........
    .....prophecy ......................................●
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  3. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Please insert Mark 16:16-18 into your post and where you believe it applies to the individual. Remember, this verse also has tongues in it. It is one of the key verses in the born again experience, and I didn't see you listed anywhere.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  4. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    I appreciate your tactful disagreement with what I have posted,
    and I will consider further the Mark 16 verses.

    I just prayed, and what came to me immediately was the fact that this
    section (16:9-20) is bracketed in the NU as NOT being in the original text.
    It is lacking in Codex Sinaiticus and others, which are older manuscripts.
    This section is however in the newer Textus Receptus (KJV, NKJV, etc.)

    It is a fact that either this section was added to the older texts,
    or it was removed from the newer Textus Receptus manuscripts.


    IF the Mark 16:16-18 was indeed spuriously added at some point,
    IMO, the person(s) took it for granted that the "believers" would be
    baptized with the Holy Spirit and have some of the 9 gifts in 1 Cor 12.
    (IMO, most believers in the NT churches had this baptism with the Holy Spirit.)

    IMPORTANT ... IMO, born-again believers w/o this baptism with the Holy Spirit
    do NOT function in the 9 spiritual "power" gifts of 1 Corinthians 12.
    E.G. the faith of a normal BAC is nothing compared to the faith of
    a BAC who has been baptized with the Holy Spirit and given this gift
    (Jesus has NOT especially anointed the former with this gift).

    There are MANY extra words in the Textus Receptus compared to the NU.
    And the red applies to all of these words as well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  5. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    Yeah we just had a thread on this earlier. Some people don't believe in baptism of the holy spirit and believe it is gone with the disciples deaths. I don't actually believe that idea. As I have experienced much with the Holy Spirit.
     
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Corinthians had the Baptism in the Spirit and were horribly carnal in all they did. The fullness of the Spirit comes through repentance Acts 2:38. The Baptism expired with the Apostles. Several scripture proofs available for a new thread if interested.
     
  7. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    But, what do you think about the explanation in the OP re: this difficult topic?
    Most will NOT be bothered to delve into it, pray about it, etc.

    The latter rain is coming SOON
    (along with a great revival in the midst of incredible chaos),
    and this latter rain will be much greater than the former rain in Acts!

    So, it behooves (is that really a word?) BACs to be prepared for what's coming!
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  8. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    Jesus said in my name you will cast out demons speak with new tongues. Matt 16.

    Jesus did what the Father said.. if anyone asks the Father for the holy Spirit He will give it. ""I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;" So.. Jesus asked the Father 1st.. as we all have to. I watched a man thats gone home now. Allot would know his name. On TV once said about Tongues "if you don't believe in Tongues praise GOD" its Jesus as lord or our life that matters. And that man preached in and about all the gifts of the holy Spirit..

    I had a best friend when I was like 12 or so. Before I knew anything about this at all.. I remember his sister came home one Sunday I believe ..she was SO happy! At some Catholic baptism she said when her friend came out of the water started to speak in tongues. I so forgot all about that.. praise GOD.

    Though I kindly disagree with Dave ..but.. HE LOVES Jesus and were family THATS what matters!
     
  9. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I believe the division is "with evidence of speaking in tongues". Too much focus is given to this gift to the point of including it in soteriology. Every Christian knows or at least should know that the Holy Spirit is our guild, comforter, convict(er), and reminder as we walk in the Spirit. John the Baptist made it very clear that there are two baptisms water and spirit.

    "John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."
     
  10. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You need to learn the difference between the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, meant only for the Apostles and those they laid their hands on (excluding the two outpourings). And the fullness of the Spirit all born again people experience through repentance Acts 2:38.
     
  11. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It has passed the test as far as I'm concerned. It has the signature of God all over it. I do not believe any of the verses that have been deleted from the newer versions were never there to begin with. It is not that they were added, but that they were deleted. Another case in point is 1 John 5:7. Non-trinitarians deleted key words.

    I have studied the works of Dr. Ivan Panin, especially his theory on the signature of God. The number 7. Just on the last verses of Mark, which just a small section of his study, here it is presented by Dr. Chuck Missler:

    Just on the last verses of Mark:
     
  12. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    All of this about the Helper in John 14 is about receiving the Holy Spirit to be born again!
     
  13. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    I have always believed this also ... that certain people deleted many words from the original texts
    to come up with the NU texts, which survived longer, were in better condition, etc. ...
    because they weren't used much!
     
  14. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Now go listen to the video. Chuck has many other amazing videos and taped teachings. I probably have 90% of them. And though I am not OSAS, I learned something from each one.
     
  15. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    But, there are obviously 2 Spirit baptisms (as proved in the OP).
     
  16. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And those in Mark 16:16-18 received the first.
     
  17. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    Please give us a break with all of your repeated nonsense!
    Your Acts 2:38 says NOTHING about "fullness", or even being "filled".
     
  18. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    (1) You are assuming that because it is NOT even close to being stated as such.
    Did the Holy Spirit reveal this to you? Because it's not obvious in Scripture.

    (2) Previously, you agreed that John 20:22 described the 11 disciples being born again,
    i.e. being baptized into the church (as in 1 Cor 12:13).
    Is this not one of the 2 Spirit baptisms?
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  19. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    I entirely agree and I have been sharing this for years...

    Cessational theologies are a human invention to account for the lack of the power of God in the church after the spirit has long gone due to unbelief.
     
  20. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So without the Spirit are they in Mark 16:16-18 speaking in tongues of the devil, or just faking it?

    No, it is when the Spirit comes inside and they are born again and given authorities they never had before, like praying perfect prayer in the Spirit as part of their armor of God.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
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