The two witnesses

[Truth7t7]

Very literal interpretation of Revelation 11 is going to be wrong.

A non-literal interpretation is wrong.

As Ronald clearly stated, the bible teaches the two witnesses are "Prophets" that have literal bodies, that literally die, and lay in a literal street.

 

[Douggg]

He did. The 7th trump is the last of 7 trumps.

No, Paul said last trump not 7th trump. It is you who is interpreting the last trump Paul spoke of as being the 7th trumpet of Revelation 10 and 11.

The third woe is the 7th trumpet. The first woe is the 5th trump, 2nd woe is the 6th trump.

The trumpet themselves are not a woe. The 5th trumpet announced the flesh tormenting locust - that was the first woe.

The 6th trumpet announced the army that will killed a third of mankind - that was the second woe.

The 7th trumpet sounded and John was shown the mystery of God beginning it final phase, contained in the remaining chapters of Revelation - which in Chapter 12 there is a war in heaven (second heaven) and Satan cast down to earth - woe to the inhabitors of the earth, the third woe that John is shown.

Rev_8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Three woes, 3 angels yet to sound their trumps.

The trumpets signal WHEN John is about to be informed of what the woe(s) are. Not that the trumpet of the three angels are the woes, themselves.

No one is tormented by the voices of the three angels - but by the locust. No one is killed by the voices of the three angels - but by the army.

And as each trumpet sounds - it doesn't say the voice of the angel is a woe.

An analogy would be it is not until the bell rings, a boxing match begins. The bell itself is not the boxing match. It just signals WHEN - the boxing match begins for everyone to see.

 

[ewq1938]

Another thought came to mind. The two individuals (maybe Enoch and Elijah) will be murdered and lay in the street, then resurrected and will ascend after the 3rd day. It stands to reason, that prior to this event, our resurrection/rapture has not taken place.

Yes. The rapture and Ress happen after the 7th trump sounds which Rev 11 says happens shortly so it's definitely the same day.

Now, since the candlesticks represent the faithful and persecuted churches, they will also simultaneously be taken up with the two witnesses --- just a thought, not sure.

Not at the same time. The rapture happens after the 7th trump sounds, and after the resurrection of the dead. Then the living are changed to immortal then raptured upwards.

Rev. 7:9 represents the rapture, the multitude from every nation seen in heaven.

I'm afraid that is unrelated to the rapture because it is a glimpse of the future in the eternity. Those that had been raptured will be in that crowd of course but that is roughly 1000 years after the rapture.

Another interesting point is that Revelation is not in a chronological order, events overlap and are shown in different vantage points.

True. I have a study where I try to identify each part of Rev and it's chronology. Took years to be able to identify when the chronology jumps.

It goes back and forth which is why this book is so confusing -- it can't work in a linear, chapter by chapter, seals, then trumpets, etc. The trumpets and bowls fall within the seals.

I disagree but it's a different topic for another time.

I think of the scroll with seals as a play and that Jesus arrived in heaven after His ascension and was handed that scroll at that time and opened it. It contains the events of the future, but the play doesn't start until the trumpets start to blow. And then you have 1,2,3 ... in order and then the bowls in order.

You are a thousand percent right here

 

[ewq1938]

Why should it matter when Jesus said these things?

I explained that. It matters greatly because there will come a day when people will know it is the day of Christ's return. It will be the day the two prophets come back to life.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

I was just thinking about the two witnesses and who they may be but i have a few question what are they a witness of? Whats thier testimony? And what does it mean they stand before the Lord of the earth? Etc.

Rev 11

11:3-4 “The two witnesses,” which are said to be “two olive trees” and “two candlesticks,” represent the Old and New Testaments. The olive trees represent the power of the Holy Spirit. The candlesticks symbolize the spiritual light of the scriptures. Psalm 119:105; Zechariah 4:1-14. The two witnesses were to “prophesy…in sackcloth,” symbolizing mourning. The Bible was not readily available to the common people. There are several reasons for this:

Revelation 11 Commentary

1. It was only available in Hebrew, Greek and Latin;
2. It had to be copied by hand so there were few copies;
3. During religious services both scripture reading and sermons were in Latin;
4. The church’s stance was that since the common people could not understand the Bible, the clergy must interpret it for them;
5. Even after the Bible was translated into the common language of the people, the church forbade them to read it.
11:5-6 There is a penalty for misrepresenting Bible truths and teaching error, Revelation 22:18. Here the “two witnesses” are represented as bringing Some Old Testament style punishment on those who “hurt” the scriptures by their false teachings. Medieval Europe suffered terribly from wars, famines and disease that killing millions of people because of the church’s rejection of the scriptures.

 

[Jenniferdiana]

Thanks. Sigh im just tired and tired of reading all these doctrines online. They are odd exhausting and confusing to read. I feel so guilty for reading all those things already. I dont know why that stuff is even written or who even writes those things. I dont get why they always have big little bold dark and highlighted letters and sentences. They look satanic.

 

[Tayla]

I was just thinking about the two witnesses and who they may be but i have a few question what are they a witness of? Whats thier testimony? And what does it mean they stand before the Lord of the earth? Etc.

(Revelation 11:3) There is no change in context from the previous passage about the temple. Since the temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D. the two witnesses appeared at or before the start of the Jewish War (66–70 A.D.) There was a Jewish king and a Jewish priest during this time that match the description rather well.

 

[Noxot]

the two witnesses are divine love and divine wisdom and they witness God because they are God.

 

[BABerean2]

Since the temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D. the two witnesses appeared at or before the start of the Jewish War (66–70 A.D.) There was a Jewish king and a Jewish priest during this time that match the description rather well.

The two witnesses are Christians based on them being described as the two Olive Trees and the Two Candlesticks.

In Revelation 1:20 Christ tells us that the candlesticks are a symbol of the churches.

In Romans 11 Paul uses the Olive Tree as a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelites and Gentiles grafted together into one tree.



Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

.

 

[DennisTate]

I was just thinking about the two witnesses and who they may be but i have a few question what are they a witness of? Whats thier testimony? And what does it mean they stand before the Lord of the earth? Etc.

I believe that there may be some clues as to what they are doing in the Jewish wedding customs that are very different from the usual Christian customs.

Hopefully some of the questions regarding this topic will get answered in this discussion:

Could the two witnesses...... volunteer to NOT be raptured....