The Two Gospels of the New Testament 12.03.2019

[Terral]

Hi Nolidad:

Thank you for writing.

Yes sir- the Mosaic Law is no longer in operation. Jesus fulfilled the entire reuirement of the Law thus ending it! Paul also explained this well if one reads the Word without retranslating it.

Gal. 3: 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

And thank you for making my point. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone obeying our gospel. That excludes Israel of the flesh, Peter, John, James, Nicodemus and disciples of the Kingdom Bride, along with every unbelieving Gentile on Earth. The idea that Christ's sacrifice ends the Law for everybody has no basis in Biblical reality. There is a very big difference between Eternal Truth (for everybody) and Dispensational Truth for members of one particular household, which is what this Dispensationalism Forum is all about. Here is a perfect example written by James to the Kingdom Church:

"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all." James 2:10.

Paul is writing to members of Christ's "His body" church (Col. 1:24) while James is addressing the Kingdom "Bride" church (John 3:29) among the "twelve tribes dispersed abroad" (James 1:1). Please look at Vine's definition again (dispensation #3622) to realize the Body of Christ is just one "called out assembly" (church #1577), while Israel and Peter's Kingdom Bride Church represent completely different dispensations-households. Tossing everyone into one dispensational pot as if everyone has obeyed our gospel and the Law has passed away for everyone is wrongly dividing the word of truth by definition.

Blessings,

Terral

 

[nolidad]

Hi Nolidad:

Thank you for writing.


And thank you for making my point. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone obeying our gospel. That excludes Israel of the flesh, Peter, John, James, Nicodemus and disciples of the Kingdom Bride, along with every unbelieving Gentile on Earth. The idea that Christ's sacrifice ends the Law for everybody has no basis in Biblical reality. There is a very big difference between Eternal Truth (for everybody) and Dispensational Truth for members of one particular household, which is what this Dispensationalism Forum is all about. Here is a perfect example written by James to the Kingdom Church:


Paul is writing to members of Christ's "His body" church (Col. 1:24) while James is addressing the Kingdom "Bride" church (John 3:29) among the "twelve tribes dispersed abroad" (James 1:1). Please look at Vine's definition again (dispensation #3622) to realize the Body of Christ is just one "called out assembly" (church #1577), while Israel and Peter's Kingdom Bride Church represent completely different dispensations-households. Tossing everyone into one dispensational pot as if everyone has obeyed our gospel and the Law has passed away for everyone is wrongly dividing the word of truth by definition.

Blessings,

Terral

Well as your statement are something I have never heard in my 45+ years of study, I have no clue what you are talking about!.

Are you saying that James was not writing to those in the body? Are they saved? How are they saved?

I know what oikonomia and ecclesia both mean.

So James and Peter who are called Apostles to the Jews were writing to saved people without believing in the death and REsurrection of Jesus for their sin? IOW believing in the Messiahship of Jesus?

Does what you say still hold true today when people witness to Jews? Please define theis Kingdom bride and church bride.

 

[nolidad]

I can see that You are not a dispensationalist.

Okay we can agree to disagree there

Wrong again ! I am a staunch dispensationalist and teach the dispensations in bible Institute! I am a harxh opponent of covenant theology and the allegorical interpretation of SCripture!

 

[Guojing]

Hi Guojing:

Thank you for writing on the Two Gospels topic. You wrote:

We disagree about your conclusion that declaring two gospels interpretations as blasphemy is "silly" (my highlight on your commentary for emphasis below):


My point is that mixing doctrinal precepts teaching the Gospel of the Kingdom and Gospel of the Grace of God together is extremely dangerous. That is Peter's warning in 2Peter 3:14-16.

Blessings,

Terral

Er I wasn’t.

I was telling the other guy, If you don’t accept that there is a distinction between the 2 gospels, you are very likely to mix them up.

 

[Guojing]

Wrong again ! I am a staunch dispensationalist and teach the dispensations in bible Institute! I am a harxh opponent of covenant theology and the allegorical interpretation of SCripture!

you can say you are one but no dispensationalist that I am aware of will think that James letter was directed to the body of Christ.

If you still think you are, then you are probably a classical or an acts 2 one. Is that correct?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Wrong again ! I am a staunch dispensationalist and teach the dispensations in bible Institute! I am a harxh opponent of covenant theology and the allegorical interpretation of SCripture!

LOL. And you cannot even bring one Scripture to the table to support Dispensationalism and Pretrib.

 

[nolidad]

you can say you are one but no dispensationalist that I am aware of will think that James letter was directed to the body of Christ.

If you still think you are, then you are probably a classical or an acts 2 one. Is that correct?

James letter was written to Jewish believers in christ, but as Paul wrote:

Ephesians 2:11-19 King James Version (KJV)
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

And you do not know many dispensationalists then.

 

[nolidad]

Er I wasn’t.

I was telling the other guy, If you don’t accept that there is a distinction between the 2 gospels, you are very likely to mix them up.

I agree with you, but I think you have misunderstood the gospel of the kingdom and have a false hold.

Teh gospel of the kingdom in Jesus' day was to announce to Israel alone that teh long awaited and prophesied kingdom was at hand for Israel! They rejected it and it was postponed tro a fuiture generation.

IN Matt. 24 the gospel of the kingdom is preached again, not as a plea to accept Christ,

"14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

But as a testimony against the world! Remember all who have taken th emark in those days are beyond redemption!

 

[nolidad]

Paul is writing to members of Christ's "His body" church (Col. 1:24) while James is addressing the Kingdom "Bride" church (John 3:29) among the "twelve tribes dispersed abroad" (James 1:1). Please look at Vine's definition again (dispensation #3622) to realize the Body of Christ is just one "called out assembly" (church #1577), while Israel and Peter's Kingdom Bride Church represent completely different dispensations-households. Tossing everyone into one dispensational pot as if everyone has obeyed our gospel and the Law has passed away for everyone is wrongly dividing the word of truth by definition.

Still awaiting you to explain what you mean the two churches!

Remember that the body of Christ is Jesus' bride! Paul made that clear to teh gentiles in corinth. JOhn was speaking a great statement dividing the OT saints from the NT saints.

Israel was and will be agian the wife of Jehovah, The Church is the bride of Christ! and there is a difference between a wife and a bride in the understanding of teh writers.

 

[nolidad]

LOL. And you cannot even bring one Scripture to the table to support Dispensationalism and Pretrib.

to you:

Matthew 13:15
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

 

[sovereigngrace]

to you:

Matthew 13:15
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

That is always the classic Pretrib response to anyone who disagrees with their non-biblical theories. I refer you back to my many unaddressed points/questions.

Many of us are glad to have our eyes opened and to have moved from Dispensationalism.

 

[Guojing]

James letter was written to Jewish believers in christ, but as Paul wrote:

Ephesians 2:11-19 King James Version (KJV)
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

And you do not know many dispensationalists then.

so to confirm, you are acts 2 or classical dispy?

 

[Guojing]

I agree with you, but I think you have misunderstood the gospel of the kingdom and have a false hold.

Teh gospel of the kingdom in Jesus' day was to announce to Israel alone that teh long awaited and prophesied kingdom was at hand for Israel! They rejected it and it was postponed tro a fuiture generation.

IN Matt. 24 the gospel of the kingdom is preached again, not as a plea to accept Christ,

"14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

But as a testimony against the world! Remember all who have taken th emark in those days are beyond redemption!

This is strange because I agree with everything you stated.

which part did you think I misunderstood?

 

[Terral]

Hi Nolidad:

Thank you for writing and for asking questions. You wrote:

Well as your statement are something I have never heard in my 45+ years of study, I have no clue what you are talking about!.

Are you saying that James was not writing to those in the body? Are they saved? How are they saved?

That's easy...

Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” Mark 1:14-15.

Jesus Christ the Son of God is preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom right out of the gate in Mark 1 "and" saving souls like Peter, John and James.

So James and Peter who are called Apostles to the Jews were writing to saved people without believing in the death and Resurrection of Jesus for their sin? IOW believing in the Messiahship of Jesus?

Nolidad! God sent John the Baptist, Jesus Christ and the Twelve to preach the "Gospel of the Kingdom" that includes repentance of sins, confessing sins, baptism in water, and laying of hands for the Holy Spirit. That "was" the Program that God had for Israel during the time of the Four Gospels and Early Acts. God would send Paul with our "Gospel of the Grace of God" only after He raised Christ from the dead "and" after our gospel was given to Paul via a "revelation of Jesus Christ." Galatians 1:11-12. The key for understanding here is that the Gospel of the Kingdom is a real "good news" message that God used to save sinners like Peter, John, James, Cornelius, etc.. They are simply part of a completely different "dispensation" (household) living under a different set of "house rules."

Does what you say still hold true today when people witness to Jews? Please define this Kingdom bride and church bride.

Nolidad! This is the "Two Gospels of the NT" Topic. The "Two Churches of the NT" topic is over here. :0)

Blessings,

Terral

 

[Terral]

Hi Guojing:

Thank you for the clarifying statements.

Er I wasn’t.

I was telling the other guy, If you don’t accept that there is a distinction between the 2 gospels, you are very likely to mix them up.

Amen, brother. Very good. Please carry on. :0)

Blessings,

Terral

 

[nolidad]

so to confirm, you are acts 2 or classical dispy?

Well I am a dispensationalist. I have no clue what an Acts 2 or classic dispensationalist means! I believe in the 7 (or 8) standard dispensations. I believe the church was born with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which caused the disciples to be born again.

Here are teh dispensation or economies of governance I see and have been taught and teach from the Scriptures:

1. The Dispensation of innocence or freedom. Gen. 1:28-3:8
2. The dispensation of conscience (self determination) Gen. 3:9-8:14
3. The dispensation of human govt. Gen. 8:15-11:32
4. The dispensation of promise or patriarchal rule Gen. 12:1- Ex. 18: 27.
5. The Dispensation of the Law ex. 19:1-Acts 1:26
6. The Dispensation of the church age or grace Acts 2:1-Rev. 19:1
7. Teh dispensation of the Millennial Kingdom REv. 20-1-10

If that has a specific title so be it!

 

[nolidad]

Nolidad! God sent John the Baptist, Jesus Christ and the Twelve to preach the "Gospel of the Kingdom" that includes repentance of sins, confessing sins, baptism in water, and laying of hands for the Holy Spirit. That "was" the Program that God had for Israel during the time of the Four Gospels and Early Acts. God would send Paul with our "Gospel of the Grace of God" only after He raised Christ from the dead "and" after our gospel was given to Paul via a "revelation of Jesus Christ." Galatians 1:11-12. The key for understanding here is that the Gospel of the Kingdom is a real "good news" message that God used to save sinners like Peter, John, James, Cornelius, etc.. They are simply part of a completely different "dispensation" (household) living under a different set of "house rules."

I agree that is what they were sent to do. Until Matt. 12 and the leadership committing the unpardonable sin and rejecting Jesus as Messiah!

You seem ignorant of the myriads of promises in the OT that God would send the Messiah to resotre the full kingdom to Israel ! JOhn came as the forerunner and would have counted as Elijah if Israel accepted Jesus as Messiah. He still would have died, rose again, but then establish the long awaited and promised kingdom to Israel.

If you notice in the four gospels, after the events of of Matthew 12- there was no more preaching of the gospel of the kingdom. No one received the indwelling Holy Spirit until Pentecost. Jesus declared that in the last supper!

Jesus commanded the Apostles to preach the gospel to the whole globe! So it wasn't a revelation to Paul. Teh Apostles were disobedient in that command and stalled in Israel so God raised up Paul to go to the gentiles.

And yes the content of the gospel concerning Jesus was the same (death and rising) but the rest of the content was different because the gentiles were excluded from the covenants of Israel and thus had to be reached in a different way than the Jews could be preached to. It is the same today, How I share the gospel with someone who has been church ed, is far different than how I present the gospel to someone who never stepped inside a church!

So you believe in 2 people of God living simultaneously? The saved Jews who believed what? and then after Acts 1:26 Jews and Gentiles being in the body of Christ?

 

[nolidad]

Nolidad! This is the "Two Gospels of the NT" Topic. The "Two Churches of the NT" topic is over here. :0)

Blessings,

Terral

Actually there are three and possibly four gospels spoken of in the New Testament.

The gospel of the kingdom was to announce the king had come and the kingdom was to be established!

It was rejected and therefore Jesus postponed the kingdom to a future time. After Matthew 12., the whole tenor of Jesus teaching and preaching changed! He no lnger worked public miracles except on the baiss of faith, and he no more spoke to the crowds openly , but in parables, and He then went into training mode with the apostles to prepare them for the establishment of the church!

 

[nolidad]

This is strange because I agree with everything you stated.

which part did you think I misunderstood?

I think I was answering terral and was writing to you!

I apologize for the error.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Actually there are three and possibly four gospels spoken of in the New Testament.

The gospel of the kingdom was to announce the king had come and the kingdom was to be established!

It was rejected and therefore Jesus postponed the kingdom to a future time. After Matthew 12., the whole tenor of Jesus teaching and preaching changed! He no lnger worked public miracles except on the baiss of faith, and he no more spoke to the crowds openly , but in parables, and He then went into training mode with the apostles to prepare them for the establishment of the church!

Where in scripture does it say that "Jesus postponed the kingdom to a future time"?

Dispensationalists wrongly teach that Christ’s real purpose for coming to this earth was to establish an earthly Jewish kingdom. They say that this was to be a political kingdom centered in Jerusalem where Christ would rule over a dominant Israel and exercise complete control over the nations of the earth. Unfortunately, they make the exact same mistake that the Pharisees did 2000 years ago with their misguided obsession with (1) racial favoritism, (2) earthly real estate and (3) the idea of a dictatorial Messiah reigning over the Gentile nations with a rod of iron. Because of their flawed perception of the kingdom, the Pharisees ended up rejecting Christ.

When Christ appeared at His first advent, many religious Jews imagined the Messiah would introduce an authoritarian Zionistic kingdom, restore Israel’s ancient borders, reinstate the then defunct earthly throne of Israel and reign victorious over the house of Israel. They thought the anointed One would be a great military leader that would confront Israel’s enemies, and overcome them, freeing them from foreign domination, starting with the Romans.

The Jewish expectation was a literal visible territorial political kingdom of which the warrior-like liberator would triumphantly rule. These religious apostates believed in ethnic division and racial dominance. They believed that the appearance of Messiah would usher in a period of natural and spiritual bliss for Israel, a time where the nations would be brought into wholesale subjugation. This would be a time of historic and unprecedented justice and peace. Their obsession with the natural, earthly and provisional instead of the spiritual, heavenly and eternal caused them to reject Christ and nail Him to a tree as an impostor.

Dispies speak much about a future Davidic kingdom and argue for its return in a future millennium after the second coming. But they fail to see that the old covenant earthly kings of Israel were not God’s plan but a rebellious invention of man designed to mimic the heathen nations around them. While God permitted them, they only serve as an imperfect distorted type of the perfect heavenly King who reigns today in heavenly Jerusalem

The reality is: Christ never made any attempt to set up a carnal Zionist territorial political kingdom. He didn’t make the slightest attempt to overthrow the Roman rulers. He wasn’t even an earthly king. Nowhere did He try to raise up an earthly army to instigate an nationalist political kingdom. He rather came to reveal a heavenly kingdom which was entered by faith.

The reason why the Jewish Scribes and Pharisees rejected Him was that He didn’t meet their hyper-literalist expectation of an earthly ethnic territorial political system. The kingdom He spoke of was spiritual and heavenly. This did not fit in with their carnal expectation. Sadly, Premils still seek after such a faulty expectation in order to justify their flawed future hope. What is more, the natural, physical, earthly ceremonial aspects of the old covenant are obliterated in the New Testament by the new covenant reality. This was presented by the legalistic religious Jewish leaders as evidence of Christ phony credentials.

Man did not, and does not, have the ability to abort or postpone the kingdom. That is a Dispensational invention. The kingdom came 2000 years ago in power. Only those who had eyes to see saw it. It is the same today. Many today have the same mistaken expectation as the blinded Pharisees had. They are looking for a physical material pollical Zionist kingdom. But Jesus brought a spiritual heavenly and eternal kingdom that is entered by faith.