TribulationSigns

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There are alot of debate over Gog and Magog lately. What many Christians does not realize that God, much of the time, speaks through the use of parables containing symbols, allegories, metaphors, etc., all in picturesque language. I am NOT saying that we should dismiss the literal and historical events of the Old Testament congregation as mythical or fables in any way. God forbid! No, but rather we know without a doubt that God moved the events of ancient Israel as examples for the New Testament congregation today.

The one main ingredient or key to understanding the symbolism of Old Testament Scripture is in understanding the fact that Old Testament Israel was a prefigure or foreshadow of the New Testament Church - the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16. Once we come to the truth on this matter Scripture will then open up to us with the guidance of the Holy Spirit and many more marvelous truths will then begin to fall into place. The true worshipper of Christ must know and understand who we really are! One cannot truly understand the Gog/Magog Battle apart from realizing that the true believer in Christ is a New Testament spiritual Jew. And the false prophets and christs, along with professed Christians who follow them are the spiritual Gentiles. We are waging a spiritual war within spiritual “mountains” (kingdom) of Israel. Jesus Christ the Messiah is 'INDEED" the Israel of Scripture. As I said, the mountains often throughout Scripture represents KINGDOMS, thus the MOUNTAINS OF ISRAEL is a term denoting the kingdom of the Jesus Christ which is CHURCH! This is where the real and invisible battle in the latter days will be raged and not some literal war upon the mountains of the physical nation of Israel.

Christ warned us in Matthew Chapter 24 that when we see Satan or abomination of desolation residing within the church (the holy place side of the Cross), then we who are in SPIRITUAL Judaea (a term for the corporate church) are to depart out of the apostate church and flee to the mountains of God, or in other words we are to depart and flee to the Kingdom (mountains) of Christ where the Truth can be found.

What is the abomination of desolation, exactly? It is a time when Satan is loosing and gathered his body of professed Christians to attack and silence the true Word of God which brings desolate into the unfaithful corporate church. This is the time when the Gog and Magog battle commences or is going forth in full fury, simply because Gog and Magog battle is Satan's final act of rebellion in God's house (Isaiah 14:13-15) where the judgment must take place first. In fact, the battle of Gog and Magog is a worldwide battle, the act of God putting hooks into Satan's jaws (Ezekiel 38:4) and bring him and his armies into God's unfaithful congregations as a judgment. Metaphorically speaking, and allowing Satan to come forth to spiritually destory thecorproate church of Jesus Christ. The True Christians will not be deceived by this final act of Satan, because they are secured by God, and will be allowed to "see" for what abomination of desolation so they will be moved by God to get out of the church to avoid being partaker of the plagues that are coming upon u nfaithful congregation. That is what the Gog and Magog is all about. NOt about nation Israel in the Middle East.

Our true enemies are not Russia, Iran and China. They are the very people who are among us in our congregations. Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, Todd Benetly, Jerry Farell, Jack Van Impe, and "many people with thee" (professed Christians who loved them)! They will tolerate homosexuality, allowing divorce and remarriage, propersity gospel, etc. But when we speak the trurth against these, they will look upon us as homophobic, hateful, persecuting, unliving, un-gracious, radical, etc. It is because they are offended by our truthful testimony that what kept them at bay for the past 1,800 years but now with the power of Satan, they will be able to overcome us, silenced (kill) us to the point that our truthful testimony will no longer heard in the churches today. They will rejoiced about it and exchange their gifts (false doctrines) without resistance which is what we are seeing going on in churches.

And another thing about our enemies found in Ezekiel 38 is that God wanted us to understand what they are wearing and what arms they bear:

Ezekiel 38:4-6 KJV
[4] And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
[5] Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
[6] Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

I pray that you will please think about it for a moment. Look at the word, "clothed." Being clothed is a spiritual garment or being clothed in a garment that is symbolical of a spiritual state in God. Think about it, what does God have us clothed within Ephesians 6:10-18 as TRUE Christians? Look at professed christians on what they wear is similar to ours? What do they lack? The loins girt about with truth and the feet shod of the gospel of peace. See. Our enemies will appear to be Christians but lack the truth! They are our spiritual enemies in the house of God! They are the ones who Satan has deceived and used them to wage war against us all over the world. This is the "wars and rumor of wars" that Christ talked about in Matthew 24? Not a literal war, literal army, literal land, because national Israel is NOT representing God's Kingdom on earth at this side of the Cross. The Church is where Christ is already a chief cornerstone of this building.

That is why many Christians with CARNAL MIND, are looking at the wrong place, wrong Israel, wrong armies simply because they are busy looking for enemies on the world map and based on world news. It is a spiritual battle, not newspaper eschatology!
 

keras

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The one main ingredient or key to understanding the symbolism of Old Testament Scripture is in understanding the fact that Old Testament Israel was a prefigure or foreshadow of the New Testament Church - the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16. Once we come to the truth on this matter Scripture will then open up to us with the guidance of the Holy Spirit and many more marvelous truths will then begin to fall into place. The true worshipper of Christ must know and understand who we really are! One cannot truly understand the Gog/Magog Battle apart from realizing that the true believer in Christ is a New Testament spiritual Jew.
Congratulations, you got this right!
So many want to abrogate this truth, because it conflicts with the 'rapture to heaven' theory.
What it means, is that wherever Israel is prophetically mentioned in the OT, it refers to Christians. To our future and to our destiny.

As for the G/M attack, that will happen against the Christian nation of Beulah, by that time living in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land.
At the end of the Millennium, there will be another attack, as you say: Satans final desperate attack against Jesus, by another huge army; like the previous one, a 'type' of them. It is described quite differently and you cannot conflate the two.
 
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Waterwerx

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That is why many Christians with CARNAL MIND, are looking at the wrong place, wrong Israel, wrong armies simply because they are busy looking for enemies on the world map and based on world news. It is a spiritual battle, not newspaper eschatology!
The problem is this approach to the Scripture lacks any kind of distinction between spiritual & physical and simply spiritualizes "everything" regardless of the context. I would think the first important clue is Ezekiel describes physical details regarding the destruction and burial of Gog and his horde in conjunction with the cleansing of the land.
The second important clue is Ezekiel names specific tribes of people.
This spiritualizing everything simply ignores these basic yet very important parameters used to correctly determine symbolic from non-symbolic. So you end up with an intangible Theological study system that is all based on allegory.
 
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DavidPT

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There are alot of debate over Gog and Magog lately. What many Christians does not realize that God, much of the time, speaks through the use of parables containing symbols, allegories, metaphors, etc., all in picturesque language. I am NOT saying that we should dismiss the literal and historical events of the Old Testament congregation as mythical or fables in any way. God forbid! No, but rather we know without a doubt that God moved the events of ancient Israel as examples for the New Testament congregation today.

The one main ingredient or key to understanding the symbolism of Old Testament Scripture is in understanding the fact that Old Testament Israel was a prefigure or foreshadow of the New Testament Church - the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16. Once we come to the truth on this matter Scripture will then open up to us with the guidance of the Holy Spirit and many more marvelous truths will then begin to fall into place. The true worshipper of Christ must know and understand who we really are! One cannot truly understand the Gog/Magog Battle apart from realizing that the true believer in Christ is a New Testament spiritual Jew. And the false prophets and christs, along with professed Christians who follow them are the spiritual Gentiles. We are waging a spiritual war within spiritual “mountains” (kingdom) of Israel. Jesus Christ the Messiah is 'INDEED" the Israel of Scripture. As I said, the mountains often throughout Scripture represents KINGDOMS, thus the MOUNTAINS OF ISRAEL is a term denoting the kingdom of the Jesus Christ which is CHURCH! This is where the real and invisible battle in the latter days will be raged and not some literal war upon the mountains of the physical nation of Israel.

Christ warned us in Matthew Chapter 24 that when we see Satan or abomination of desolation residing within the church (the holy place side of the Cross), then we who are in SPIRITUAL Judaea (a term for the corporate church) are to depart out of the apostate church and flee to the mountains of God, or in other words we are to depart and flee to the Kingdom (mountains) of Christ where the Truth can be found.

What is the abomination of desolation, exactly? It is a time when Satan is loosing and gathered his body of professed Christians to attack and silence the true Word of God which brings desolate into the unfaithful corporate church. This is the time when the Gog and Magog battle commences or is going forth in full fury, simply because Gog and Magog battle is Satan's final act of rebellion in God's house (Isaiah 14:13-15) where the judgment must take place first. In fact, the battle of Gog and Magog is a worldwide battle, the act of God putting hooks into Satan's jaws (Ezekiel 38:4) and bring him and his armies into God's unfaithful congregations as a judgment. Metaphorically speaking, and allowing Satan to come forth to spiritually destory thecorproate church of Jesus Christ. The True Christians will not be deceived by this final act of Satan, because they are secured by God, and will be allowed to "see" for what abomination of desolation so they will be moved by God to get out of the church to avoid being partaker of the plagues that are coming upon u nfaithful congregation. That is what the Gog and Magog is all about. NOt about nation Israel in the Middle East.

Our true enemies are not Russia, Iran and China. They are the very people who are among us in our congregations. Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, Todd Benetly, Jerry Farell, Jack Van Impe, and "many people with thee" (professed Christians who loved them)! They will tolerate homosexuality, allowing divorce and remarriage, propersity gospel, etc. But when we speak the trurth against these, they will look upon us as homophobic, hateful, persecuting, unliving, un-gracious, radical, etc. It is because they are offended by our truthful testimony that what kept them at bay for the past 1,800 years but now with the power of Satan, they will be able to overcome us, silenced (kill) us to the point that our truthful testimony will no longer heard in the churches today. They will rejoiced about it and exchange their gifts (false doctrines) without resistance which is what we are seeing going on in churches.

And another thing about our enemies found in Ezekiel 38 is that God wanted us to understand what they are wearing and what arms they bear:

Ezekiel 38:4-6 KJV
[4] And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
[5] Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
[6] Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

I pray that you will please think about it for a moment. Look at the word, "clothed." Being clothed is a spiritual garment or being clothed in a garment that is symbolical of a spiritual state in God. Think about it, what does God have us clothed within Ephesians 6:10-18 as TRUE Christians? Look at professed christians on what they wear is similar to ours? What do they lack? The loins girt about with truth and the feet shod of the gospel of peace. See. Our enemies will appear to be Christians but lack the truth! They are our spiritual enemies in the house of God! They are the ones who Satan has deceived and used them to wage war against us all over the world. This is the "wars and rumor of wars" that Christ talked about in Matthew 24? Not a literal war, literal army, literal land, because national Israel is NOT representing God's Kingdom on earth at this side of the Cross. The Church is where Christ is already a chief cornerstone of this building.

That is why many Christians with CARNAL MIND, are looking at the wrong place, wrong Israel, wrong armies simply because they are busy looking for enemies on the world map and based on world news. It is a spiritual battle, not newspaper eschatology!


Ezekiel 38:17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?
18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.


Explain these two verses and show how it fits with everything else you have concluded in the OP.

What I have underlined, which prophets of Israel are being referred to here? The text indicates these same prophets prophesied in those days, meaning in old time, that many years the Lord GOD would bring thee against them. Bring against who? The land of Israel, obviously. But who and what are the the land of Israel meaning in this context though?

Ezekiel 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

I would think His people of Israel meant here would be of the land of Israel meant in Ezekiel 38:18. So who of His people Israel have been polluting His name, since the text indicates, that when these things are fulfilled, the LORD God will at that time not let them pollute His holy name any more?

Ezekiel 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.


Neither will I hide my face any more from them. Who is the 'them' meaning in this context? Believing Israel or unbelieving Israel? Who would He have been hiding His face from?

BTW, not certain where you are initially getting some of your theology, but if it were me, I would quit going to those sources since you seem to be making nonsense of these texts involved, rather than sense of these texts instead. I think what you are basically doing, it's called eisegesis.
 
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BABerean2

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Ezekiel 38:17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?
18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.


Explain these two verses and show how it fits with everything else you have concluded in the OP.

In context...

Eze 38:14 "Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say to Gog, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "On that day when My people Israel dwell safely, will you not know it?
Eze 38:15 Then you will come from your place out of the far north, you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great company and a mighty army.
Eze 38:16 You will come up against My people Israel like a cloud, to cover the land. It will be in the latter days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me, when I am hallowed in you, O Gog, before their eyes."
Eze 38:17 Thus says the Lord GOD: "Are you he of whom I have spoken in former days by My servants the prophets of Israel, who prophesied for years in those days that I would bring you against them?
Eze 38:18 "And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel," says the Lord GOD, "that My fury will show in My face.
Eze 38:19 For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken: 'Surely in that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel,
Eze 38:20 so that the fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all creeping things that creep on the earth, and all men who are on the face of the earth shall shake at My presence. The mountains shall be thrown down, the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.'
Eze 38:21 I will call for a sword against Gog throughout all My mountains," says the Lord GOD. "Every man's sword will be against his brother.
Eze 38:22 And I will bring him to judgment with pestilence and bloodshed; I will rain down on him, on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, flooding rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
Eze 38:23 Thus I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself, and I will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the LORD." '

.
 
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DavidPT

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In context...

Eze 38:14 "Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say to Gog, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "On that day when My people Israel dwell safely, will you not know it?
Eze 38:15 Then you will come from your place out of the far north, you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great company and a mighty army.
Eze 38:16 You will come up against My people Israel like a cloud, to cover the land. It will be in the latter days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me, when I am hallowed in you, O Gog, before their eyes."
Eze 38:17 Thus says the Lord GOD: "Are you he of whom I have spoken in former days by My servants the prophets of Israel, who prophesied for years in those days that I would bring you against them?
Eze 38:18 "And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel," says the Lord GOD, "that My fury will show in My face.
Eze 38:19 For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken: 'Surely in that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel,
Eze 38:20 so that the fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all creeping things that creep on the earth, and all men who are on the face of the earth shall shake at My presence. The mountains shall be thrown down, the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.'
Eze 38:21 I will call for a sword against Gog throughout all My mountains," says the Lord GOD. "Every man's sword will be against his brother.
Eze 38:22 And I will bring him to judgment with pestilence and bloodshed; I will rain down on him, on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, flooding rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
Eze 38:23 Thus I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself, and I will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the LORD." '

.


The text indicates these things occur in the land of Israel. As an example, currently I'm living in Texas. Am I living in the land of Israel, or am I living in the land of the USA?
 
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BABerean2

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The text indicates these things occur in the land of Israel. As an example, currently I'm living in Texas. Am I living in the land of Israel, or am I living in the land of the USA?

I have not found a direct reference to Texas in the Bible...

Where is Armageddon located?

Do you think people in Texas will notice when the battle of Armageddon occurs?

.
 
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Seville90210

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Do you think people in Texas will notice when the battle of Armageddon occurs?

.

Revelation 1:7 New King James Version (NKJV)
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.


I think every eye and all the tribes of the earth includes people from Texas too.
 
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DavidPT

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I have not found a direct reference to Texas in the Bible...

Where is Armageddon located?

Do you think people in Texas will notice when the battle of Armageddon occurs?

.


My point is that Ezekiel 38 indicates these things are fulfilled in the land of Israel. That to me seems to make it regional then. And based on that alone I can't figure out how the OP is concluding some of the things that it is.
 
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BABerean2

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keras

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Gog and Magog = Armageddon
Absolutely wrong, two quite different attacks, different people, different reasons, and different time.
Why conflate them anyway?
 
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BABerean2

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The first Gog battle is the great tumult in Zechariah 14...that leads to the milennium.

How many mortals are left alive on the planet after the sheep and goat judgment in Matthew 25:31-46?

The "time of the judgment of the dead", with "reward" for some and "destruction" for others is found in Revelation 11:15-18.

These two passages kill the Premill doctrine.




.
 
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