"The Truth About the Wailing Wall" Video

[Jack Terrence]

 

[ViaCrucis]

"Brother Nathaniel"? Really? A renegade, false "monk" and total wackadoo who propagates anti-semitic conspiracy theories?

"The Synod of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia has recently received repeated complaints about the activities of and statements made by a certain Nathanael (Kapner), who lives on the territory of the Western American Diocese, but has no relation to it.

The clergymen and laity of the Russian Church Abroad are hereby informed that the actions of Nathanael (Kapner) do not have the blessing of the Synod of Bishops.

Profoundly saddened by the state of his soul, we call upon Nathanael (Kapner) to refrain from posting on the Internet, to a life of repentance of peace in Christ, “where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all” (Colossians 3:11).

+KYRILL,
Archbishop of Western America and San Francisco

Secretary of the Synod of Bishops.

July 17, 2013" - Statement from the Chancery of the ROCOR Synod of Bishops

As a general disclaimer: Let no one for a minute believe that Milton Kapner represents any Christian church. He does not. The ROCOR completely disavows Kapner, condemns his "preaching" and he does what he does outside of the authority or recognition of the ROCOR or any Orthodox body or diocese; he is a renegade acting on his own who has been regularly condemned by the Orthodox Church.

He is a hate-monger and proprietor of conspiracy woo, much (or most) of which is anti-semitic garbage. It is anathema, anti-Christ, and should be condemned by all who are faithful to Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jack Terrence]

He is a hate-monger and proprietor of conspiracy woo, much (or most) of which is anti-semitic garbage. It is anathema, anti-Christ, and should be condemned by all who are faithful to Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

First, did you notice that I used quotation marks in my title? Second, Paul said that he rejoiced that the truth was preached even by those who preached it with bad motives. There is some truth in what Nathanael says. Third, are modern Jews not anti Christ?

 

[ViaCrucis]

are modern Jews not anti Christ?

No. No they are not.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Steve Petersen]

Third, are modern Jews not anti Christ?

Their opposition to Jesus as the Messiah has to be viewed in the context of their severe and prolonged persecution by people who called themselves Christian.

 

[Jack Terrence]

No. No they are not.

-CryptoLutheran

Yes, they are. They deny that Jesus was the Christ. John said that those who deny that Jesus is/was the Christ is antichrist. John was speaking to Jews.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Yes, they are. They deny that Jesus was the Christ. John said that those who deny that Jesus is/was the Christ is antichrist. John was speaking to Jews.

I figured that's how you'd respond. If you bothered to read the epistle in its context you'd know that the antichrists he's talking about are heretics, specifically Docetic and Cerenthian heretics; the Docetists denied that Jesus came in the flesh and the Cerinthians claimed that the man Jesus and the Christ were entirely distinct entities; Cerinthianism taught that at His baptism the human Jesus became possessed of a powerful spiritual being--the Christ--which persisted in Him until His crucifixion.

"Cerinthus, again, a man who was educated in the wisdom of the Egyptians, taught that the world was not made by the primary God, but by a certain Power far separated from him, and at a distance from that Principality who is supreme over the universe, and ignorant of him who is above all. He represented Jesus as having not been born of a virgin, but as being the son of Joseph and Mary according to the ordinary course of human generation, while he nevertheless was more righteous, prudent, and wise than other men. Moreover, after his baptism, Christ descended upon him in the form of a dove from the Supreme Ruler, and that then he proclaimed the unknown Father, and performed miracles. But at last Christ departed from Jesus, and that then Jesus suffered and rose again, while Christ remained impassible, inasmuch as he was a spiritual being." - St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book I, Ch. 26:1

Indeed, the ancient fathers report that when St. John once encountered Cerinthus in a public bath house he said out loud, "Let us leave, lest the bath fall; for Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is within."

St. John, in his epistles, has no reference concerning Jewish persons, but of certain heretics:

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." - 1 John 2:19

So, no, Jews are not antichrist(s). Though it is a typical charge that antisemites use, and the passage from 1 John has been misused by antisemites historically for the purpose of maligning and slandering Christ's kin.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jack Terrence]

"

I figured that's how you'd respond. If you bothered to read the epistle in its context you'd know that the antichrists he's talking about are heretics, specifically Docetic and Cerenthian heretics; the Docetists denied that Jesus came in the flesh and the Cerinthians claimed that the man Jesus and the Christ were entirely distinct entities; Cerinthianism taught that at His baptism the human Jesus became possessed of a powerful spiritual being--the Christ--which persisted in Him until His crucifixion.

Cerinthus was a late first century teacher. John's epistle was written around AD68. And there is no evidence in 1 John to connect the false teaching opposed there with the specific ideas of Cerinthus, or even to Gnosticism generally (RSB page 1985).

So, no, Jews are not antichrist(s).

Using your understanding of the term "antichrist" neither is "brother" Nathanael an antichrist. Yet you called him an antichrist. John said that those who confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh is "of God." But modern Jews deny that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. Ergo....

Though it is a typical charge that antisemites use, and the passage from 1 John has been misused by antisemites historically for the purpose of maligning and slandering Christ's kin.

-CryptoLutheran

Christ said that his "kin" are those who do the will of his Father.

 

[ViaCrucis]

"Cerinthus was a late first century teacher. John's epistle was written around AD68. And there is no evidence in 1 John to connect the false teaching opposed there with the specific ideas of Cerinthus, or even to Gnosticism generally (RSB page 1985).

The more accepted date of authorship is between about 80 and 100 AD. And there's plenty of reason to connect the Presbyter's statements with Cerinthus, given the Cerinthus' teaching was precisely that Jesus was not the Christ, Jesus was only a human being, the Christ was identified with a separate entity, a wholly spiritual and divine entity which took possession of the ordinary human Jesus, in so doing Cerinthus denied that Jesus is the Christ.

And even if we permit that the Cerinthian error isn't in view, what is in view are heretics, those who claimed to be Christians. Jews do not fit the description of "They went out from us, but they were not of us".

Using your understanding of the term "antichrist" neither is "brother" Nathanael an antichrist. Yet you called him an antichrist.

I called his views antichrist.

John said that those who confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh is "of God." But modern Jews deny that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. Ergo...

Ergo they don't believe. That doesn't make them antichrists.

Christ said that his "kin" are those who do the will of his Father.

You can weasel your words however you want.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jack Terrence]

The more accepted date of authorship is between about 80 and 100 AD. And there's plenty of reason to connect the Presbyter's statements with Cerinthus, given the Cerinthus' teaching was precisely that Jesus was not the Christ, Jesus was only a human being, the Christ was identified with a separate entity, a wholly spiritual and divine entity which took possession of the ordinary human Jesus, in so doing Cerinthus denied that Jesus is the Christ.

And even if we permit that the Cerinthian error isn't in view, what is in view are heretics, those who claimed to be Christians. Jews do not fit the description of "They went out from us, but they were not of us".



I called his views antichrist.



Ergo they don't believe. That doesn't make them antichrists.



You can weasel your words however you want.

-CryptoLutheran

I have allowed you to get away without answering the content of the video. But I ask that you deal with the content now.

The video claims that the wall is not the remnant of the second temple, but the remains of a Roman fortress. Nathanael cites Josephus who said that the Romans left nothing of the temple remaining either above or below the ground. Is this historically accurate, or not? And if accurate what difference does it make if an ostracized monk says it? Martin Luther was an ostracized monk. Jesus was ostracized by the religious establishment.

No more ad hominens please.

 

[Steve Petersen]

I have allowed you to get away without answering the content of the video. But I ask that you deal with the content now.

The video claims that the wall is not the remnant of the second temple, but the remains of a Roman fortress. Nathanael cites Josephus who said that the Romans left nothing of the temple remaining either above or below the ground. Is this historically accurate, or not? And if accurate what difference does it make if an ostracized monk says it? Martin Luther was an ostracized monk. Jesus was ostracized by the religious establishment.

No more ad hominens please.

The western wall was not part of the Temple proper, but a retaining wall for the 35 acre area it was constructed on.

The claim that there was a Roman fortress on the Temple Mount is not borne out by the archaeology. Archaeology HAS however found evidence of the camp of the 10th Legion near the Temple Mount from after the Jewish revolt against Rome in 66 AD.

Also, if you do a bit of research, you will find that , prior to the revolt, there were no Roman legions posted in Jerusalem. Jerusalem was actually off the beaten path of trade and commerce.

The archaeological claims made by Ernest L. Martin of the Temple being south of the current Temple Mount are based completely on a LACK of evidence there, believing that proves prophecy of Jesus. Lack of evidence proves prophecy. Go figure.

 

[Jack Terrence]

The western wall was not part of the Temple proper, but a retaining wall for the 35 acre area it was constructed on.

The claim that there was a Roman fortress on the Temple Mount is not borne out by the archaeology. Archaeology HAS however found evidence of the camp of the 10th Legion near the Temple Mount from after the Jewish revolt against Rome in 66 AD.

Also, if you do a bit of research, you will find that , prior to the revolt, there were no Roman legions posted in Jerusalem. Jerusalem was actually off the beaten path of trade and commerce.

The archaeological claims made by Ernest L. Martin of the Temple being south of the current Temple Mount are based completely on a LACK of evidence there, believing that proves prophecy of Jesus. Lack of evidence proves prophecy. Go figure.

According to the video Josephus wrote that the Romans left nothing remaining of the temple either above or under ground.

And even if the wall is part of the temple it could not have been part of the temple proper. The stones in the temple proper were made of marble with gold embedded in them. Christ's prediction about "not one stone being left" had to do with those precious stones only. The precious stones alone were the subject of the prophecy (Luke 21:5-6).

 

[Steve Petersen]

According to the video Josephus wrote that the Romans left nothing remaining of the temple either above or under ground.

And even if the wall is part of the temple it could not have been part of the temple proper. The stones in the temple proper were made of marble with gold embedded in them. Christ's prediction about "not one stone being left" had to do with those precious stones only. The precious stones alone were the subject of the prophecy (Luke 21:5-6).

The Wailing Wall is not a remnant or the Temple proper, but of the retaining wall of the platform that the temple compound was built on.

I misunderstood what you were saying.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

According to the video Josephus wrote that the Romans left nothing remaining of the temple either above or under ground.

And even if the wall is part of the temple it could not have been part of the temple proper. The stones in the temple proper were made of marble with gold embedded in them. Christ's prediction about "not one stone being left" had to do with those precious stones only. The precious stones alone were the subject of the prophecy (Luke 21:5-6).

The Wailing Wall is not a remnant or the Temple proper, but of the retaining wall of the platform that the temple compound was built on.

I misunderstood what you were saying.

Hello Steve.
Let's look at the verses:
Notice it only mentions buildings and manner of stones, not walls and towers.
Back in those days they didn't have laser guided bombs, bombers, tanks etc to break thru walls so them pretty much had to demolish them with battering rams and catapults.

Matthew 24:
1 And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings<3619>of the Temple.
2 And Jesus said to them, “ are ye not seeing all these?
Amen I am saying to ye,
not no may be being left here stone upon stone, which not shall be being thrown-down.”
Mark 13:1
And He going forth out of the Temple, one of His Disciples is saying to Him “Teacher! behold! what manner of stones and what manner of buildings<3619>"
2 And Jesus answering said to him, “thou are beholding these, the great buildings.<3619>
Not no may be being left here stone upon stone which not no may be being thrown-down
Luke 21:
5 and of some saying concerning the Temple, that to goodly<2570> stones and votive-offerings<334> it has been adorned
6 “These which ye are beholding.
Shall be coming days in which not shall be being left stone upon stone here which not shall be being thrown-down

Site I found on a little bit of history on Herod's Temple:

https://www.bible-history.com/jewishtemple/JEWISH_TEMPLEHerods_Temple00000006.htm

The work of rebuilding the Temple began in 19 BC which was the 18th year of King Herod’s reign. There were 10,000 skilled laborers and according to Josephus (Ant. 15.11.2) the laity could not enter certain parts of the building, therefore 1000 Levites were specially trained as builders and masons, and carried out their work so efficiently and carefully that at no time was there any interruption in the sacrifices and other services. The work was started by leveling larger portions of the Temple Mount, so that the new building might be erected on a broader base. It was also made much taller, so that the white stone gleamed in the bright Palestinian sun and could be seen from miles away.....................................

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Three celebrated walls surrounded the city on every side, except that which was deemed inaccessible, and there it was defended by one wall only. The most ancient of these walls was remarkable for its great strength, and was, moreover, erected on a hanging rock, and fortified by sixty towers. on the middle wall there were fourteen towers only ; but on the third, which was also distinguished by the extraordinary merit of its architecture, there were no less than ninety. The celebrated tower of Psephinos, before which Titus at first encamped, was erected on this latter wall, and even excelled it in the superior style of its architecture : it was seventy cubits high and had eight angles, each of which commanded most extensive and beautiful prospects. In clear weather, the spectator had from them a view of the Mediterranean sea, of Arabia,

Zephaniah1:
16 A day of trumpet and alarm/shouting on the fortified cities and the lofty towers,
17 "And I bring distress to man and they go as blind-ones, that against Yahweh they sin, and blood of them shall be poured out as soil and intestine of them as dung.
==========================================================

The Temple, Sanctuary and the buildings of the Priests were the main topic

Malachi 2
1 “And now, O priests, this command is for you. 2 If you will not listen, if you will not take it to heart to give honor to my name, says the Lord of hosts, then I will send the curse upon you and I will curse your blessings. Indeed, I have already cursed them, because you do not lay it to heart.
3 Behold, I will rebuke your offspring, and spread dung on your faces, the dung of your offerings, and you shall be taken away with it
7 For the lips of a Priest should guard knowledge, and people should seek instruction from his mouth, for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

While Jerusalem was a prey to these ferocious and devouring factions, every part of Judea was scourged and laid waste by bands of robbers and murderers,.........The three factions, rendered frantic by drunkenness, rage, and desperation, trampling on heaps of slain, fought against each other with brutal savageness and madness.
Even such as brou't sacrifices to the temple were murdered. The dead bodies of priests and worshipers, both natives and foreigners were heaped together, and a lake of blood stagnated in the sacred courts..............
For five days after the destruction of the Temple, the priests who had escaped, sat, pining with hunger, on the top of one of its broken walls;
at length, they came down, and humbly asked the pardon of Titus, which, however, he refused to grant them, saying, that, "as the Temple, for the sake of which he would have spared them, was destroyed, it was but fit that its priests should parish also:" -whereupon he commanded that they should be put to death.
=============================
Even Titus marveled at the magnificence of the Temple.........

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD


..............Such was the horrible condition of the place when Titus and his army presented themselves, and encamped before Jerusalem ; but, alas ! not to deliver it from its miseries but to fulfill the prediction, and vindicate the benevolent warning of our Lord............
At this critical and alarming conjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman army was approaching the city........
The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover........

Finding it impossible to restrain the impetuosity and cruelty of his soldiers, the Commander in chief proceeded, with some of his superior officers, to take a survey of those parts of the edifice which were still uninjured by the conflagration.
It had not, at this time, reached the inner Temple, which Titus entered, and viewed with silent admiration. Struck with the magnificence of its architecture, and the beauty of its decorations, which even surpassed the report of fame concerning them ;
and perceiving that the sanctuary had not yet caught fire, he redoubled his efforts to stop the progress of the flames.
He condescended even to entreat his soldiers to exert all their strength and activity for this purpose, and appointed a centurion of the guards to punish them if they again disregarded him : but all was in vain.........................

The vial of divine wrath, which had been so long pouring out upon this devoted city was now emptying, and JERUSALEM, once "a praise in all the earth," and the subject of a thousand prophecies, deprived of' the staff of life, wrapt in flames, and bleeding on every side sunk into utter ruin and desolation.
This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A. D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months,
the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding..............

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.
=====================
The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Reve 14:8 And another Messenger, second-one follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great,
the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations".

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."

ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

................