The Truth about Taxes

[blueapplepaste]

1. Poor Americans do pay taxes.

2. The wealthiest Americans don’t carry the burden.

3. In fact, the wealthy are paying less taxes.

4. Many of the very richest pay no current income taxes at all.

5. And — surprise! — since Reagan, only the wealthy have gained significant income.

6. When it comes to corporations, the story is much the same — less taxes.

7. Some corporate tax breaks destroy jobs.

8. Republicans like taxes, too.

9. Other nations do it better.

I only quoted the bulleted points, each one is explained in detail in the article. Definitely worth reading.

Supply-side economics is a failure. Tax cuts for the rich only benefit the rich at the expense of everyone else. After 30 years all we have to show for it are a bunch of super rich fat cats, a large national deficit and debt, and a shrinking middle class. Not to mention none of the wealth, prosperity, and jobs that were promised have materialized.

The Truth About Taxes

 

[Fantine]

Another truth--from Robert Reich, former Labor Secretary and Economist at UC Berkeley.

When the wealthiest 1% controlled more than 23% of the wealth in the 1920's, the Great Depression was triggered. When it happened again, in 2008, the great recession was triggered.

The key to prosperity is a strong middle class.

 

[EdwinWillers]

I only quoted the bulleted points, each one is explained in detail in the article. Definitely worth reading.

Supply-side economics is a failure. Tax cuts for the rich only benefit the rich at the expense of everyone else. After 30 years all we have to show for it are a bunch of super rich fat cats, a large national deficit and debt, and a shrinking middle class. Not to mention none of the wealth, prosperity, and jobs that were promised have materialized.

The Truth About Taxes

yada, yada, yada...

 

[oldbetang]

I only quoted the bulleted points, each one is explained in detail in the article. Definitely worth reading.

Supply-side economics is a failure. Tax cuts for the rich only benefit the rich at the expense of everyone else. After 30 years all we have to show for it are a bunch of super rich fat cats, a large national deficit and debt, and a shrinking middle class. Not to mention none of the wealth, prosperity, and jobs that were promised have materialized.

The Truth About Taxes

Hmmm...methinks that David Cay Johnson doesn't know what he's talking about. Either that or he's a liar.

Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

during 2007, the top 1 percent had actually paid more in federal income tax than the bottom 95 percent, a comparison that was much remarked on a year ago. But the diminished income of the top 1 percent in 2008 means that the comparison no longer holds. During 2008, the bottom 95 percent (AGI under $159,619) paid 41.3 percent of the total collected, a larger share than the 38.0 percent paid by the top 1 percent (AGI over $380,354).

The top-earning 5 percent of taxpayers (AGI over $159,619), however, still paid far more than the bottom 95 percent. The top 5 percent earned 34.7 percent of the nation's adjusted gross income, but paid approximately 58.7 percent of federal individual income taxes.
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[Umaro]

I'm still waiting for all those tax breaks we gave the top to trickle down. No one has seen a drop looking at the numbers.

 

[Grizzly]

Hmmm...methinks that David Cay Johnson doesn't know what he's talking about. Either that or he's a liar.

Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

during 2007, the top 1 percent had actually paid more in federal income tax than the bottom 95 percent, a comparison that was much remarked on a year ago. But the diminished income of the top 1 percent in 2008 means that the comparison no longer holds. During 2008, the bottom 95 percent (AGI under $159,619) paid 41.3 percent of the total collected, a larger share than the 38.0 percent paid by the top 1 percent (AGI over $380,354).

The top-earning 5 percent of taxpayers (AGI over $159,619), however, still paid far more than the bottom 95 percent. The top 5 percent earned 34.7 percent of the nation's adjusted gross income, but paid approximately 58.7 percent of federal individual income taxes.
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As I move into the top 5% of income in the United States, I am realizing the big secret. Part of it is actually mentioned in this article.

"It’s true that the top 1 percent of wage earners paid 38 percent of the federal income taxes in 2008 (the most recent year for which data is available). But people forget that the income tax is less than half of federal taxes and only one-fifth of taxes at all levels of government."

As my income has been exceeded my expenses for many years, I have been investing in stocks, bonds, and other securities. And do you know what the tax rate is on that income? Long term capital gains tax is at 15%.

As you move into the "upper tax bracket" less of your income comes from "wages" and less of your income gets taxed at the federal income tax level. Oh, as for the other taxes people pay (like social security and medicare?). That income stops getting taxed at a little over $100,000.

People keep complaining that the rich are bearing the brunt of the tax burden. That's just a load of hooey. Don't get me wrong, part of me I likes the fact that the poor and middle income folks in America are championing my cause - but I feel like they are being tricked into doing it.

 

[blueapplepaste]

yada, yada, yada...

Facts must really bore you

 

[blueapplepaste]

Hmmm...methinks that David Cay Johnson doesn't know what he's talking about. Either that or he's a liar.

Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

during 2007, the top 1 percent had actually paid more in federal income tax than the bottom 95 percent, a comparison that was much remarked on a year ago. But the diminished income of the top 1 percent in 2008 means that the comparison no longer holds. During 2008, the bottom 95 percent (AGI under $159,619) paid 41.3 percent of the total collected, a larger share than the 38.0 percent paid by the top 1 percent (AGI over $380,354).

The top-earning 5 percent of taxpayers (AGI over $159,619), however, still paid far more than the bottom 95 percent. The top 5 percent earned 34.7 percent of the nation's adjusted gross income, but paid approximately 58.7 percent of federal individual income taxes.
​

As the article explained and Grizzly pointed out, federal income taxes are only a small part of all taxes paid. SS taxes for example, someone making $100k pays the same amount of taxes that someone making $1 million pays.

 

[chaz345]

a large national deficit and debt,

Which cannot be solved through increased taxes. It can't be done. No matter what our tax rates are historically, tax revenue never moves all that far from 18% of GDP. It just doesn't happen. It was around that back when the tax rate on the top was 70% or more and it's that now. Spending has been around 24% of GDP for a long time. We NEED to make significant cuts, plain and simple. And given all the wailing and gnashing over the relatively insignificant cuts that were just proposed, it isn't going to happen.

 

[Grizzly]

Which cannot be solved through increased taxes. It can't be done. No matter what our tax rates are historically, tax revenue never moves all that far from 18% of GDP. It just doesn't happen. It was around that back when the tax rate on the top was 70% or more and it's that now. Spending has been around 24% of GDP for a long time. We NEED to make significant cuts, plain and simple. And given all the wailing and gnashing over the relatively insignificant cuts that were just proposed, it isn't going to happen.

Yes - we also need the cuts. But we can't to it with cuts alone. Just like we can't do it with tax increases alone. We need both.

 

[chaz345]

Yes - we also need the cuts. But we can't to it with cuts alone. Just like we can't do it with tax increases alone. We need both.

Right, but we need the cuts first. I say that because history has shown that if we increase taxes first what happens is a temporary bump in revenue is combined with a few over optimistic projections and suddenly as if by magic, we no longer need the cuts.

 

[Marek]

Right, but we need the cuts first. I say that because history has shown that if we increase taxes first what happens is a temporary bump in revenue is combined with a few over optimistic projections and suddenly as if by magic, we no longer need the cuts.

How about both at the same time?

 

[chaz345]

How about both at the same time?

As long as the cuts are made somehow unrepealable. But the bottom line is that with the outcry over the piddling little cuts that were just proposed, real cuts that will make a difference are simply not going to happen. And without cuts the whole thing will eventually fall apart. I, personally would rather have that happen sooner rather than later. While I'm still young enough to survive in an essentially non-functioning society, cause that's what we're headed for if the fiscal insanity doesn't stop.

 

[Grizzly]

Right, but we need the cuts first. I say that because history has shown that if we increase taxes first what happens is a temporary bump in revenue is combined with a few over optimistic projections and suddenly as if by magic, we no longer need the cuts.

You make a good point. They need to either happen at the same time or the tax hikes have to come later.

 

[KarateCowboy]

Government is a necessary evil. Given that it is evil, we then should seek to minimize it. Fewer taxes for all, I say.

 

[lordbt]

As the article explained and Grizzly pointed out, federal income taxes are only a small part of all taxes paid. SS taxes for example, someone making $100k pays the same amount of taxes that someone making $1 million pays.

But there is a cap on the amount one can receive in SS benefits. So it only makes sense that there be a cap on what one pays in.

 

[revanneosl]

The only politically possible way to make the necessary correction to our national balance-sheet, will be for leading Republicans to propose the substantial tax increase and the deep cuts to Defense Department spending, while at the same time leading Democrats propose the massive reform of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

 

[blueapplepaste]

Right, but we need the cuts first. I say that because history has shown that if we increase taxes first what happens is a temporary bump in revenue is combined with a few over optimistic projections and suddenly as if by magic, we no longer need the cuts.

What I think and wish they would do would be conditional tax hikes. Raise taxes by X% only if spending is cut by Y%. If you can't reach a deal on spending cuts, then you don't get the tax increases. This way both sides have incentive.

 

[salida]

I only quoted the bulleted points, each one is explained in detail in the article. Definitely worth reading.

Supply-side economics is a failure. Tax cuts for the rich only benefit the rich at the expense of everyone else. After 30 years all we have to show for it are a bunch of super rich fat cats, a large national deficit and debt, and a shrinking middle class. Not to mention none of the wealth, prosperity, and jobs that were promised have materialized.

The Truth About Taxes

First what do u mean by rich? The rich who don't pay as much in taxes is because of the capital gains tax. But 125,000-250,000 is upper middleclass not rich.

How the rich don’t pay taxes. (Interview with William Buffet)
http://philosophers-stone.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/11/how_the_rich_do.html

 

[Dale]

Right, but we need the cuts first. I say that because history has shown that if we increase taxes first what happens is a temporary bump in revenue is combined with a few over optimistic projections and suddenly as if by magic, we no longer need the cuts.

This is exactly what did not happen with the Reagan tax cut. Instead, the country would up with enormous deficits. When Reagan's successor, George H. B. Bush, raised taxes to lower the deficits, conservatives didn't like it, even though he was just correcting an inexcusable error by a previous administration. The Bush One tax increase helped paved the way for the virtual elimination of the deficit (but not the national debt) during the Clinton Administration. Yet, to this day, the reactionaries loathe the first George Bush as some kind of high taxer.

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