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Featured The Truth about our Future

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by keras, Dec 1, 2019.

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  1. solid_core

    solid_core Well-Known Member

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    You are still repeating the same "argument", i.e. a literal, technical reading of an emotional and frequently even poetic text.

    Thats why you must still wait for it to be fulfilled and still live with hundreds of unfulfilled (or failed) prophecies and you must still study thousands years old lamentations about non existent Israel, watching in todays news if its finally being fulfilled... nah, not for me

    Law and prophets till John the baptist.
    Lk 16:16
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  2. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Nobody can say any prophecy is unfulfilled until Eternity commences. Revelation 21-22

    Not for you, eh?
    What is coming will be for everyone on earth, be they rejecters or just plain ignorant of the Lord's purposes. Luke 21:35
     
  3. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Jesus specifically stated that a time was coming when believers would no longer worship in earthly Jerusalem

    John 4:21 Believe Me, woman,” Jesus replied, “a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem

    Jesus, nor any of the apostles teach that after that time, believers would resume worshiping in a physical temple building in Jerusalem.

    To teach that "soon" we will be worshiping again in earthly Jerusalem within a earthly temple building again, is directly opposite of the words of Christ, and thus should be a red herring for anyone reading that
    .

    Correct, God is never changing. The never changing purpose of the of the old covenant, which included the law of Moses and specifications for temple worship, was to reveal sin and foreshadow Christ. The never changing purpose of the old covenant was only in place until the coming of Christ, so that by the Cross, the righteous standards of God would be fulfilled in those who are in Christ.

    Colossians 2:16-17 Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ

    Hebrews 10:1 For the law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves

    galatians 3:19 Why then was the law given? It was added because of transgressions, until the arrival of the seed to whom the promise referred.

    Romans 8:3-4 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.c He thus condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

    And just as our never changing God spoke to the prophets through visions, dreams, parables, so to did our never change God speak in parables when he was in the flesh.

    Numbers 12:6 He said, “Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, will reveal Myself to him in a vision; I will speak to him in a dream.

    Hosea 12:10 spoke through the prophets and multiplied their visions; I gave parables through the prophets.

    Matthew 13:13 This is why I speak to them in parables: ‘Though seeing, they do not see;
    though hearing, they do not hear or understand

    Thus, Keras, if we cannot understand the earthly parables given to us by the Father through the prophets and through the Son, how can we ever understand the heavenly reality that these earthly picture point to? The earthly vision/dreams/parables point to the spiritual reality.

    John 3:12 If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?

    paul quotes Ezekiel as being fulfilled in the Body of Christ, thus the earthly parable spoke by God to the prophet Ezekiel points to the Spiritual reality.

    Ezekiel 37:26-27 And I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary among them forever. My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be My people

    2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement can exist between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them,
    and I will be their God, and they will be My people.
     
  4. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    But they did; 2 Thess 2:4 and Revelation 11:1.

    During His first sojourn on earth, the God-Man Jesus had nowhere to dwell, Matthew 8:20, Luke 9:28 His rightful place as God would have been the Temple in Jerusalem, but He is driven from there under threat of death by the rulers of Israel. But at the end of the age, Jesus will become the ordained, accepted and anointed King of the whole earth by the defeat of His enemies. The question is then, "WHERE WILL HE LIVE PHYSICALLY, AND OF WHAT TYPE WILL HIS HOUSE BE?

    Ezekiel answers this. The House in which Emmanuel (God with us) will live must fulfill a number of qualifications.

    · It must be in Jerusalem

    · It must be a Palace fit for the greatest King ever to live

    · It must be a House that reflects the accomplishments of this great King

    · It must be a House that allows the correct service to such an Holy One

    · It must be a House that everyone of every nation can come up to pray, worship and have audience with the Ruler of the World.

    Zechariah 14:16-21, totally refutes your idea there will never be another Temple.
     
  5. solid_core

    solid_core Well-Known Member

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    Or it already came (Revelation included) and you are beating a dead horse.

    It all depends on how literal do you want to be. If you are seeing a spiritual city or a physical, material city coming down on earth etc.

    Can you prove that:
    a) prophecies are meant to be read 100% literally and physically?
    b) that Luke 21 is about later events than in 70 AD?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  6. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    We may soon see who is flogging the dead horse.

    The new Jerusalem that comes to the earth, a physical place, must also be physical.

    If our Bibles say something will happen, which can literally happen and it hasn't taken place yet, we know it must be a future event. If not; then our Bible is a book of fiction.

    Luke 21:25-28 awaits fulfilment. What is described has never happened yet.
     
  7. Deade

    Deade Called of God Angels Team Supporter

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    Hello Keras, I agree with you that New Covenant is not fully implemented yet as spoken of in Jeremiah 31, Joel 2, Acts 2, and Hebrews 8. I think you are reaching with "[​IMG]coronal mass ejection." I call that being too specific for prophecy. Besides, the Lord said He will not make a full end:

    Jer. 4:27 "For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end." I think there will be very much death, but not completely.

    I have a question for you: Do you think today's Christians will be judged according to Rev. 20 as you suggested? This great white throne is 1000 years after today's Christians have been resurrected. Did they not receive the immortality, and thus reward, when Christ returned? Consider:

    1 Cor. 15:23 "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."


    Rev. 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

    in-deep-thought-smiley-emoticon.gif
     
  8. AlasBabylon

    AlasBabylon Mystic

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    .

    There are many Biblical prophecies about the destruction of the Edomites [Isaiah 34, Isaiah 63:1-6, Malachi 1:4]. The book of Obadiah tells us Edom will be totally destroyed by fire [Obadiah 1:18].


    Edomites allied with ancient Babylon to destroy Jerusalem and the temple [Psalms 137:7,
    1 Esdras 4:45 = 1 ESDRAS 4:45 KJV "Thou also hast vowed to build up the temple, which the Edomites burned when Judea was made desolate by the Chaldees." ]

    Josephus tells us the Edomites [descendants of Esau, Jacob's fraternal twin brother who became Israel's enemy] feigned "conversion" en masse to being "jews" in the 2nd century BC so they could live in and eventually rule Judea [evil King Herod I was an Edomite-jew.]

    Today, antichrist Edomite-FAKE-jews [Revelation 2:9, Revelation 3:7-9] maliciously occupy and pervert God's ancient holy land [Ezekiel 36:5.]

    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  9. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    We know that the only Christians who will be resurrected when Jesus returns, are the martyrs of the Great Tribulation. Revelation 20:4 cannot be clearer.
    Not that they are just brought back to life, not made immortal yet. Only at the final Great White Throne Judgment, will immortality be conferred on those whose names are found in the Book of Life. At that time and not before, is when Paul's prophecy in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56 will be fulfilled.
    20+ prophesies tell about the forthcoming devastation and depopulation of all the holy Land area. By fire sent by the Lord. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Amos 1 and 2:1-5, Isaiah 66:15-17
    Note; that Isaiah 66:18b-21 goes on to prophesy that the Lord's people will be gathered and will live there, being the people He always wanted in His Land. Romans 9:24-26
     
  10. AlasBabylon

    AlasBabylon Mystic

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    Hosea prophesied about the northern kingdom of Israel [who comprised the vast majority of Israelites] who became "gentiles" [nations] after God divorced them and used Assyria to remove them from the holy land [Hosea 1:1-10 - verse 10 is a prophecy of God's restoration of those divorced "gentile" Israelites in Christ.]

    Assyria resettled some of those Israelites into the "cities of the Medes" [2 Kings 17:6-7, 2 Kings 18:11-12]. Per ancient Greek historian Herodotus, the Medes were called Arians and were related to the Greeks. There were a lesser people connected to the Medes called Persians. Like the Israelites, the ancient Achaemenid Persians [who called themselves Aryans] were also divided into 10 to 12 tribes [per ancient Greek historians Xenophon and Herodotus.] Also like the Israelites, the ancient Achaemenid Persians worshiped one invisible god, who the Persians called "Ahura Mazda" [Wise Lord] who they said was the "God of the Aryans." God's anointed Persian King Cyrus [Isaiah 44:28 & Isaiah 45] united the Medes and Persians, conquered Babylon, liberated [southern kingdom] Israelites from Babylonian captivity and decreed they return to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple [Ezra 1]. Cyrus' son-in-law, King Darius I decreed the completion of the temple in Jerusalem [Ezra 6]. Per Herodotus, Cyrus' grandson/Darius' son Xerxes told the men of Argos Greece that they and the Persians were the same stock and lineage.

    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  11. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    As we know from all the teachings of the New Testament, ethnicity is of no consequence; only belief and faith in Jesus counts. Ephesians 2:11-18

    However; God does have a secret and my belief is that the majority of the Christian people today, are actual descendants of Jacob.
    This means that when we are gathered into the holy Land, God will have fulfilled His promise to the Patriarchs, of their descendants occupying all the area from the Nile to the Euphrates.

    When we are all there, Jesus will appear to us; His own people; 2 Thess 1:10, Revelation 14:1. He will assign everyone to the tribe suited to their family characteristics, Revelation 7:9, and will select 144,000 young people to go out in pairs to proclaim the good news of the coming Kingdom to the nations. Isaiah 66:19 Paralleled by Luke 10:1-10.

    We will live there, blessed by the Lord; in peace and prosperity and when Gog from Magog tries to attack us, the Lord will wipe them out. But we will be conquered, Zechariah 14:1-2, and the Anti-Christ leader of the rest of the world will take over the holy Land for the 42 months allowed to him. Revelation 13:5-8 Those Christians who kept faithful to God, will be kept safe. Revelation 12:14
    Then Jesus will Return in His glory and reign for the next 1000 years.
     
  12. AlasBabylon

    AlasBabylon Mystic

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    Protestant reformer Martin Luther [who translated the Bible into German] also believed what the Bible teaches... that the dead in Christ are not conscious of passing time and events but blissfully sleep until the resurrection of the dead. Martin Luther is blessed to still be asleep. He would be aghast at the current evil perverted antichrist world order!

    Protestant reformer William Tyndale [who was martyred for translating the Bible into English] was a contemporary of Luther. He believed the same as Luther... the dead sleep until the resurrection.

    .
     
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  13. AlasBabylon

    AlasBabylon Mystic

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    Re-read and think about those verses from the context of what I've already posted here and the context of the whole Bible and hopefully you will be blessed with its true meaning.

    Those "gentiles" were the northern kingdom Israelites in Amos 9:9 who God divorced and sifted among the "gentiles" [nations] yet would not be lost. They are the wild olive branches that would be grafted back on the olive tree in Christ. Olive is a Biblical symbol of Israel. Those wild olive branches that had been broken off were Israelites living as gentiles. Here they are again in James 1:1 who addresses all 12 tribes of Israel living abroad in the name of Jesus Christ.

    The law of God commands that kind produce kind. The grave sin in Noah's day was race-mixing between the Adamic "sons of God" with women of other races. God commanded Israelites to be separate from all other people and not to intermarry with them. In the book of Ezra, some Israelites had committed a grave sin... they returned from Babylon with foreign wives and mixed children. So those who had race-mixed promised to put away those wives and children [but all their names are recorded as a warning to others.] Jesus told the foreign woman that it was not good to take the children's bread and cast it to the dogs. The woman agreed with Jesus. Then she said that dogs do get to eat the crumbs that fall from their master's table. This refers back to how in Abraham's seed all the world would be blessed. From Genesis to Revelation the Bible is the story of the God of Israel's special relationship with only one people, Israelites, who will enter God's New Jerusalem via 12 gates one for each of the 12 tribes of Israel.

    There is another topic here about the coming of Elijah before the great and terrible day of the Lord. Elijah's important mission is to turn the hearts of the children to their forefathers and vice versa.


    Listen to Me, you who pursue righteousness,
    you who seek the LORD:
    Look to the rock from which you were cut,
    to the quarry from which you were hewn.

    Look to Abraham your father,
    and to Sarah who gave you birth.

    Isaiah 51:1-2

    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  14. Deade

    Deade Called of God Angels Team Supporter

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    I am sorry for you as someone has led you to believe this. Rev. 20:4 speaks of all God's called Chruch. You list yourself as Pentecostal and still have this strange conception of the saints transformed at Christ's coming. You realize most Pentecostals do not believe like you? We would have to throw out too many scriptures that plainly state when we receive our crowns:

    1 Cor. 15:23 "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

    1 Thess. 2:19 "For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?"

    1 John 2:28 "And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming."


    Are you an Amillennial Pentecostal? Do you believe we are in a long millennium now? :rolleyes:
     
  15. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    This scripture certainly applies to us Christians.
    I would change my designation if I knew how to do it.:scratch: Just Christian would be better.

    Revelation 20:4-5 is quite specific: ONLY the Tribulation martyrs are brought back to life at Jesus Return. The rest of the dead await the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium.
    Receiving our rewards, is another matter. Matthew 16:27

    We are in the Church age now. The Millennium is exactly 1000 years and will commence at Jesus' Return.
     
  16. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    These don't mention a "new" temple. These were written when a temple was standing in the 1st century. So I'm not sure what you are talking about.

    I actually agree that the temple must have these things. But I disagree that the temple in question is an earthly temple building made by man. I would argue it is the body of Christ that is the true temple.

    Acts 7:48 However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands.

    2 corinthians 6:16 What agreement can exist between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be My people.”d

    Ephesians 2:21 In Him the whole building is fitted together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord. And in Him you too are being built together into a dwelling place for God in His Spirit.

    God spoke to the prophets in parables, dreams, and visions.

    Numbers 12:6 He said, “Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, will reveal Myself to him in a vision; I will speak to him in a dream.

    Hosea 12:10 spoke through the prophets and multiplied their visions; I gave parables through the prophets.

    These visions and parables pointed to Christ. Not to another earthly picture. They were shadows of Christ, of which the NT teaches us how to interpret.

    The feasts, which includes the feast of tabernacles, were only a shadow of Christ. Thus the feast in zechariah's parable/dream/vision points to Christ.

    Colossians 2:17 Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things coming, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.

    Those who are in Christ already come to the true Jerusalem. to worship.

    Hebrews 12:22 instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels

    Keras, if one cannot understand that the earthly pictures simply pointed to Christ, then one will never understand the heavenly truths.

    Do you believe being born again means literally coming through your mother's womb or does this earthly picture point to a spiritual reality. If you believe it points to a spiritual reality, then why do you believe the earthly pictures of the prophets point to more earthly pictures?

     
  17. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Do you really want to know what the Prophetic Word, which I promote; is actually talking about?
    From what I see of your posts, you want to reject all of it.

    Many prophesies tell of another, better Temple in Jerusalem. Haggai 2:8, Ezekiel 40-48
    Paul says that a wicked man will sit in it and declare himself to be god. 2 Thess 2:4
    You deny these scriptures to your discredit.
    The present situation is that we Christians are the spiritual Temple of God, but there was Temples before that were revered as the place of worship and there will be one again.
    There are earthly realities and there is Spiritual truths. Only fools mix them up.
     
  18. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    They all point to Christ and his body.

    He sure did.

    I don't deny the scriptures. I deny your interpretation of them, which you have been unable to substantiate with NT scripture.

    I agree, as testified by the NT.

    There sure was, and what was the purpose according to the NT of the temple complex.? Hebrews 9 is a very good place to start.

    What NT scripture teaches that believers will again worship in an earthly man made temple in the future, to substantiate your own person interpretation of the OT?

    Will you simply ignore that the disciple stephen clearly stated that the God of the universe does not dwell in man made temples.

    Acts 7:48 Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made by hands,

    So then you believe being born again involves literally coming through your mother's womb again?
     
  19. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Obviously, clainjia, you just cannot understand plain Words of prophecy.
    Scripture does tell us this will happen to those who want to believe false teachings.

    Jeremiah 6:10 To whom shall I speak? To whom give warning, who will hear me? The peoples ears are blocked, they are incapable of listening, they treat the Lord’s Word as a reproach.

    Isaiah 29:10-14 For you the whole vision is nothing but words in a sealed book.

    Isaiah 6:9b-10 However hard you look and listen, you will never perceive.

    Isaiah 48:8 You don’t understand, because your ears were stopped long ago.

    Psalms 94:5 Understand, O dullest of people; when will you be wise?

    Deuteronomy 32:28-29 My people are a nation devoid of understanding. If only they had the wisdom to discern what their end will be!

    Daniel 12:9-10 None of the wicked will understand, only the wise leaders of My people.

    Amos 8:11-13 People will search for the truth, but will not find it.

    Isaiah 48:6 You have heard what I have said, consider it well, it is the truth. From now on I show you new things, hidden things, that you did not know before.

    Matthew 11:25 Father, You have hidden Your secrets from the learned and revealed them to the simple. [The learned: those who promote theories and unbiblical fables. The simple; those who carefully study the Word and discern the truths found there.]
     
  20. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    Keras, my friend. You greatly misinterpret scripture.

    God bless you
     
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