• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured The truth about baptism

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by JESUS=G.O.A.T, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    +604
    United States
    Apostolic
    Single
    US-Others
    But they responded in acts by baptizing in Jesus Name though why is that unless Jesus is the name jesus was talking about? Also wouldn’t that fit in with verses like this also that say “hey bro use the name of Jesus”?
    Acts 4:12King James Version (KJV)
    12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
     
  2. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    +604
    United States
    Apostolic
    Single
    US-Others
    I used to believe in Matthew 28:19 myself as it is... for some time... but I started looking into some things and I’ve concluded father, son, Holy Ghost aren’t names. I mean my physical father’s name isn’t father it’s Mike. I’m his son but my name isn’t son it’s Mike Jr. I’m not saying this is the only reason I turned away from that train of thought.. besides it took me a year to make the switch but this is just a common sense one that really hit me
     
  3. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

    +194
    Christian
    In Relationship
    Whatever , nonsense is what you speak , Jesus told that man that he would be in Paradise WITH Jesus that very day , that man did not need to be dunked in water , you are like the pharisees that desire to make men follow their views , if you choose to believe that way have at it , your need to tell the world that they are not saved unless they do as you do is hogwash rubbish
     
  4. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    +604
    United States
    Apostolic
    Single
    US-Others
    All you do is make poor arguments and critique my character. Just a tip from a minister... as a Christian a key component towards bringing people to Christ is persuasion not hate and poor argumentation. And so far all you’ve done is display the latter tbh... the others have provided sciprtuer and critical thinking that has made this thread interesting. You haven’t provided anything worth considering tbh. First of all if you bothered to not just read but also comprehend my response you would notice that I’m agreeing with the fact that he didn’t need to be dumped in water... I’m simply explaining why he didn’t need to be dumped in water because of the period of time because Christ didn’t fulfill his purpose yet.
     
  5. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

    +194
    Christian
    In Relationship
    While it is good to see you know that water does not save you , you speak as if you are somehow more 'enlightened' that anyone else
    perhaps you should find a better way to express it than saying things like Christians don't understand there is a spiritual realm we can't see , perhaps if that person was 4 years old or a devout atheist just accepting Christ in the last hour then maybe . But anyone who has been a Christian for even a very short time knows about the spiritual realm and it is something we can't see .
     
  6. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    +604
    United States
    Apostolic
    Single
    US-Others
    .. I put quotation marks around Christian “christians” that means people who see themselves as christians but when you examine them they aren’t Christ like. Whenever you see “” around a word it means not really. For example if I say sure he’s a “great basketball player” it’s sarcasm or pretend or an exaggeration but not the actual thing. “”
     
  7. Athanasius377

    Athanasius377 New Member Supporter

    64
    +56
    United States
    Anglican
    Married
    The passage in MAT 28:19 is a command in the aorist tense meaning it happened in the past without ending at some point in the future. It also gives the formula which is specifically trinitarian. Acts on the other hand is not giving a formula. Luke is making a distinction between the baptism of John (or any one else) and the baptism of Jesus.
     
  8. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    +604
    United States
    Apostolic
    Single
    US-Others
    You sort of prove my point though even if you were in a hypothetical world right that the father son and Holy Ghost was used in the past just like Johns baptism it’s a thing of the past used before the death and ressurextion of Christ. In acts they even went from Johns baptism straight to Jesus Name baptism. They said in the name of the one who died for them... name of the son... his name... I mean it’s not trinitarian it’s all pointing towards the name of Jesus. What’s interesting though is again if you were right in a hypothetical about baptism in the father, son, Holy Ghost, there would be a transition from it to Jesus Name like there is with Johns baptism but there isn’t. As if they never did it like that in the acrostic sense as you suggest. Since it’s accepted that the two baptisms are different in the religious world there should be a And by not using that name you’re just going against what peter was trying so hard to defend against enemies in the verse I mentioned.. doing everything in the name of Jesus.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  9. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    +604
    United States
    Apostolic
    Single
    US-Others
    And before you say acts didn’t give a formula... acts 2:38 is a formula... also the Bible talks about baptism being buried with Christ.. what better way then to be baptized in Jesus Name.
     
  10. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

    +10,341
    Lutheran
    Single
    US-Others
    Is Acts 2:38 a formula?

    "Peter said to them, 'Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'"

    Is "in the name of Jesus Christ" a formula? If so then later on the wrong formula is used,

    "As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" (Acts 19:5)

    So is the formula "in the name of Jesus Christ" or "in the name of the Lord Jesus"?

    Or is it more possible that this isn't a formula at all, it's referring to Christian Baptism which is into Christ (Romans 6:3, Galatians 3:27)?

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  11. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

    +10,341
    Lutheran
    Single
    US-Others
    We baptize in the three-fold name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit; as Christ commanded.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  12. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    +604
    United States
    Apostolic
    Single
    US-Others
    but they didn't becuase father, son, and holy ghost aren't names. so why you 2 do it is beyond me.
     
  13. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    +604
    United States
    Apostolic
    Single
    US-Others
    There is one common denominator in both instances though the name of JESUS not father, son, holy ghost. When it says be baptized in the name of JESUS Christ it just means in his name which is JESUS.

    Whether you call him Lord... Christ or whatever doesn't matter but as acts puts it as long as you use that name where there is no salvation in any other you're good. I can say I baptize someone in JESUS christ, or JESUS our savior, or JESUS our LORD the name itself embodies ...Lord....Christ...man...mediator....healer...jehovah....prince of peace etc. whatever we add to the end of it is just another title like father, son, holy ghost. They recognized this clearly.
     
  14. Brokenhill

    Brokenhill Praise God, i'm satisifed.

    235
    +63
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I never said water saves.
    OBEDIENCE TO GOD is part of salvation.

    I'm sorry but none of your claims can be found within God's word. You are putting words in God's mouth--all i'm doing is quoting scripture. Even Jesus Himself teaches that righteousness is a part God's plan of salvation, He says that just believing is not enough.

    But I repeat, I do not believe nor am I teaching "works salvation". You misunderstand my points if you think that.

    Baptism (which I explained is more than just being dunked in water) erases all of our sins up until that point and initiates us into Jesus' body with the seal of the Holy Spirit. After that point, all we need to do is repent and confess our sins before God to be forgiven when we stumble (1 John 1:9). But baptism is necessary for the INITIAL joining to the body of Christ...the only way to get IN Christ is via baptism into His death/resurrection. That is not my opinion, that is God's clear word.
     
  15. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

    +194
    Christian
    In Relationship
    That is the hogwash I refer to
    water does not erase sins - it simply symbolic only God can erase sins
    Several scriptures speak exclusively that you ask forgiveness of sins , then God forgives and erases the sin in which a person confesses and asks for forgiveness
    Repentance is also necessary as a living testimony that a person truly has change. I agree that people should be baptized , out of being obedient to God , but it does not erase sins or prevent a person from being a part of the family of God if a person does not get dunked in a tub of water
    you merely have an interpretation of how you see it and if that is what you want to believe then enjoy yourself with it - it is this kind of speak that reminds me of when JW or mormons insist that believing 'only' as they do will get a person into Gods presence
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  16. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    +604
    United States
    Apostolic
    Single
    US-Others
    Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the LORD.
     
  17. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

    +537
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Others
    Every person and the earth shall be BAPTIZED ~

    Matt 3:11
    [11].... he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
    [12] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

    Some with PURIFICATION of the indwelling HOLY SPIRIT ~
    Some with PURIFICATION of the consuming FIRE ~

    Men simply have to decide IF they want to be Baptized with the Holy Spirit ~ and if not, they shall be Baptized with the consuming Fire.

    The Light of God shall purge from all things, that which has become corrupt.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  18. Brokenhill

    Brokenhill Praise God, i'm satisifed.

    235
    +63
    Non-Denom
    Married
    All I've done I'd provide to you what God's word said. I'm honestly sad you don't want to just read it for what it is.

    1 Peter 3:21 NASB
    "Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"


    BAPTISM NOW SAVES YOU. The apostle said it, not me. I will believe what he says before you, or whatever pastor so-and-so preaches on Sunday. Not trying to be rude, just being honest...
    Acts 5:29 NASB
    "But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men."

    You misunderstand baptism and salvation.
    Water does not save, OBEYING GOD saves (obedience is apart of repentance)...but it's not by works. What God has revealed in His word is that while He gives grace to all by offering the gift of salvation, and that no one deserves it, He still has expectations and even conditions to the believer. God had made it very clear that believing is not enough.
     
Loading...