The Trump administration unveils a stealth attack on people with preexisting conditions

[RDKirk]

Well then you have the issue of what is basic? What I consider basic may be something different than you consider basic and what I am willing to do may be different than what you are willing to do. In other words, for example, I have about decided if I was told I needed a liver transplant they could call hospice in other people ( particularly my age ( I am not yet 30) may feel differently yet in most cases by the time you need a transplant that is pretty bad.

That question is worked out in industrialized nations around the world. It's not a new wheel to be invented.

For that matter, it's already been worked out in military care as well.

 

[dogs4thewin]

We can absolutely afford to pay for everyone. For far less than what we spend now. We just can’t affird the profit we are paying to the greedy insureabce and drug companiesz

Depends there are 300+ million people in this country and various levels of health needs ( along with health needs that are not really needs. We can only afford so much and so it is up to us what we WANT to afford.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Not being able to afford health insurance isn’t something you did to yourself.

It may or may not be.

 

[dogs4thewin]

That question is worked out in industrialized nations around the world. It's not a new wheel to be invented.

For that matter, it's already been worked out in military care as well.

Do all countries ( leaving the military out because that is one thing ( In other words it is the same across the country as it is funded by the same country Do all countries have the EXACT same things covered? Keep in mind too that if untreated things get worse. Thus, in a way it would make since to only cover preventive services and treat things early whether than things people have let go. Even though people are less likely to be able to afford something they have let go.

 

[Sparagmos]

Oh that's lovely. It's nice to know that as a person with a pre-existing condition, I and millions of others don't know where we'll be getting our medication and care in the future.

Such a joyous day. Good work, Republicans. So much winning. Way to show us how a healthcare system should be run.

Honestly, single-payer nationalized insurance is simply a superior system in every way. As the idea picks up steam, I'll be curious to see the disinformation campaign the insurance industry launches to rile up the stupids into accepting an inferior, dysfunctional system for the sake of a few individual's pocketbooks.

So far, I hear "but the gubmint" and "socialism"

I trust the government more than I trust the insurance industry. I have representatives in government. I don't have representatives in Kaiser's boardroom.

Also, not afraid of the socialist boogeyman. Every other developed nation on earth has a national health plan, and none have switched to our system. There's a good reason for this.

Anyway, carry on.

Good post. Informative. I’m sorry that you have to worry about this and I think the American people will come through and do the wise thing.

 

[RDKirk]

Do all countries ( leaving the military out because that is one thing ( In other words it is the same across the country as it is funded by the same country Do all countries have the EXACT same things covered? Keep in mind too that if untreated things get worse. Thus, in a way it would make since to only cover preventive services and treat things early whether than things people have let go. Even though people are less likely to be able to afford something they have let go.

All countries would not have the same things covered the same way not all countries eat the same food. The point is that such operational decisions can be made. It's not a deal-breaker.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Then why don’t European countries pay twice what we do for healthcare? That’s actually not a good analogy for single payer healthcare. Your pool is a miniscule fraction of what the pool would be. With single payer or universal healthcare, every citizen is in the pool, and the healthy young people who rarely go to the doctor mitigate the cost of the older and less healthy people. And we know that it costs less than the system we have now. A lot less. I am in a non-profit union health trust and the cost of platinum plus full family health insurance is $970/mo, about half of the cost if you went with one of the non-union for profit platinum employer plans. That is because the health trust requires the company to pay for EVERY employee, so there are a lot of healthy single people in there along with the families. We don’t have to come up with analogies, just compare healthcare costs in our country with any country that has universal health care.

I wonder what the difference will be when there are fewer young healthy people? Many of those same countries have an ageing population ( due to longer lifespans and yet low birth rates. If that keeps up then will there come a time when the system will not work as well because there are too many older people and not enough younger healthy people paying in.

 

[Sparagmos]

I stated that people should help people, but not be FORCED into doing so, not that the poor should die and NOT that is what Jesus was sent to do.

Universal healthcare helps everyone, including you. You keep going on like the cost would be more, when we all know it is less.

 

[Sparagmos]

I fail to see that what I DO see and do believe is that people should be accountable for their own choices. Not all bad things that happen to you are due to your personal sin, but at the same time you cannot just do things and when it turns out badly ( even if it may be the best personal decision you have ever made think that it becomes other people's problem.

Dogs what do you and / or your employer pay for healthcare?

 

[Sparagmos]

Do all countries ( leaving the military out because that is one thing ( In other words it is the same across the country as it is funded by the same country Do all countries have the EXACT same things covered? Keep in mind too that if untreated things get worse. Thus, in a way it would make since to only cover preventive services and treat things early whether than things people have let go. Even though people are less likely to be able to afford something they have let go.

It sounds like you really want to punish people for what you consider to be bad choices. That’s really sad. What about the parent that works two jobs and neglects their own health in order to provide for their children? Or the child born into poverty and not fed a healthy diet? Rather than try to figure out if each person could have made “better choices,” why not be kind, forgiving, and let god judge?

 

[Andrew77]

Not sure you’ve thought that through... Have you always had health insurance? How much did you pay for it when you were 20 years old and how much was your income at that age?

When I was in my 20s, I believe I had to pay something like $20 a check. In 2006, I had insurance for just $67/month. Honestly, unless you live in a screwed up state that jacks up the insurance premiums with burdensome regulations, basic health insurance is affordable.... or I should say, was affordable prior to Obama Care.

 

[Sparagmos]

I wonder what the difference will be when there are fewer young healthy people? Many of those same countries have an ageing population ( due to longer lifespans and yet low birth rates. If that keeps up then will there come a time when the system will not work as well because there are too many older people and not enough younger healthy people paying in.

And how would private for profit insurance be better in that case? What you just gave as a reason to reject universal healthcare is actually an example of why we need young healthy people in the pool. And in our country, there is no requirement for young healthy people to be in the pool which is one of the reasons costs are so high.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Dogs what do you and / or your employer pay for healthcare?

I am on Medicare Why because me late father ( I am a disabled adult child) paid into the system for years) until a year prior to his death at 53 ( starting as a teenager. He raised me to realize that nothing is free and taught me that people take care of their own not to depend on the government ( He probably could have filed for disability sooner than he did in fact I know he could because recurrent cancer is pretty much a shoe in for disability and yet he worked until his body literally could take no more I was taught that you worked for what you had and that government should be limited.

 

[dogs4thewin]

It sounds like you really want to punish people for what you consider to be bad choices. That’s really sad. What about the parent that works two jobs and neglects their own health in order to provide for their children? Or the child born into poverty and not fed a healthy diet? Rather than try to figure out if each person could have made “better choices,” why not be kind, forgiving, and let god judge?

because you cannot expect your poor choices to become other people's problem as to letting God judge I do not recall saying that PEOPLE should not help PEOPLE, but that people should have that choice.

 

[Sparagmos]

When I was in my 20s, I believe I had to pay something like $20 a check. In 2006, I had insurance for just $67/month. Honestly, unless you live in a screwed up state that jacks up the insurance premiums with burdensome regulations, basic health insurance is affordable.... or I should say, was affordable prior to Obama Care.

So now, the cost of insurance for that 20 year old is more like $150 a check, unless they have a huge deductible. So how does a 20 year old working a minimum wage job pay for insurance? It’s not possible. The “cheap” insurance isn’t cheap if you actually use it,because the deductibles are so high.

 

[Sparagmos]

because you cannot expect your poor choices to become other people's problem as to letting God judge I do not recall saying that PEOPLE should not help PEOPLE, but that people should have that choice.

Being poor isn’t usually a choice. And many working class people can’t afford insurance.

 

[Sparagmos]

I am on Medicare Why because me late father ( I am a disabled adult child) paid into the system for years) until a year prior to his death at 53 ( starting as a teenager. He raised me to realize that nothing is free and taught me that people take care of their own not to depend on the government ( He probably could have filed for disability sooner than he did in fact I know he could because recurrent cancer is pretty much a shoe in for disability and yet he worked until his body literally could take no more I was taught that you worked for what you had and that government should be limited.

Wait WHAT? You are benefiting from socialized medicine. Your father didn’t pay for it, ALL of our taxes are paying for it. How are you “taking care of your own” if you are on Medicare? And you want to deny the same thing to other unfortunate people?

 

[Sparagmos]

Well then you have the issue of what is basic? What I consider basic may be something different than you consider basic and what I am willing to do may be different than what you are willing to do. In other words, for example, I have about decided if I was told I needed a liver transplant they could call hospice in other people ( particularly my age ( I am not yet 30) may feel differently yet in most cases by the time you need a transplant that is pretty bad.

We the people can decide what is basic if we have single payer healthcare. Before Obamacare, insurance companies decided.

 

[Sparagmos]

Depends there are 300+ million people in this country and various levels of health needs ( along with health needs that are not really needs. We can only afford so much and so it is up to us what we WANT to afford.

My point is that single payer healthcare that covers everyone is far cheaper than what we are paying now, without covering everyone. So we can afford something that is cheaper - it’s a no-brainer.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Being poor isn’t usually a choice. And many working class people can’t afford insurance.

Whether being poor is a choice or not depends. I tell you what is almost always a choice except for very limited cases is REMAINING poor. Going back to the example of my father he grew up as one of four with an alcoholic father who could not hold a job and he and his siblings helped his mother pay the bills when they each got old enough. Yet, by his 30th birthday he was a landlord and when he built this house put DOWN what most people finance. He did not come CLOSE to poverty again until close to the end and he did have insurance His younger brother from what I can tell based on what he has done and what I have seen is the same way. His older brother and sister however while both worked hard until becoming disabled are poorer money managers. They all four came from the same house and are full-blood siblings it is THEIR CHOICES as ADULTS that made the difference. Now, I love all my aunts and uncles, but the fact is it was their choices as adults and not where they came from ( poverty) that determined where they are today or in father's case were for the better part of their adult lives. Now, is that to say that everyone makes it out of poverty or that hard work is all that goes into no, but that is he biggest of it.