The Trump administration unveils a stealth attack on people with preexisting conditions

[Sm412]

Oh that's lovely. It's nice to know that as a person with a pre-existing condition, I and millions of others don't know where we'll be getting our medication and care in the future.

Such a joyous day. Good work, Republicans. So much winning. Way to show us how a healthcare system should be run.

Honestly, single-payer nationalized insurance is simply a superior system in every way. As the idea picks up steam, I'll be curious to see the disinformation campaign the insurance industry launches to rile up the stupids into accepting an inferior, dysfunctional system for the sake of a few individual's pocketbooks.

So far, I hear "but the gubmint" and "socialism"

I trust the government more than I trust the insurance industry. I have representatives in government. I don't have representatives in Kaiser's boardroom.

Also, not afraid of the socialist boogeyman. Every other developed nation on earth has a national health plan, and none have switched to our system. There's a good reason for this.

Anyway, carry on.

 

[Reconciliation and Truth]

I believe we should allow people to pool their resources if they so choose.

If you can't afford your treatment, you should die.

Jesus came into the world to kill off the poor.

To be serious, private healthcare is a massive scam. These insurance parasites have brainwashed the American public into rationalizing their existence. We all pay for treatment in emergencies that could be prevented. We pay people to push papers.

 

[dogs4thewin]

If you can't afford your treatment, you should die.

Jesus came into the world to kill off the poor.

To be serious, private healthcare is a massive scam. These insurance parasites have brainwashed the American public into rationalizing their existence. We all pay for treatment in emergencies that could be prevented. We pay people to push papers.

I stated that people should help people, but not be FORCED into doing so, not that the poor should die and NOT that is what Jesus was sent to do.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Not sure you’ve thought that through... Have you always had health insurance? How much did you pay for it when you were 20 years old and how much was your income at that age?

not sure I have thought what through. People have the choice if they CHOOSE not to then fine but they take the risk, Just like when you own a home outright ( have paid it off) you are generally not required to have home owner's insurance, but if you go that way you better know that if something happens to your home that will be on you ( and whomever has it their heart to help.

Yes, I have always had insurance.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Oh that's lovely. It's nice to know that as a person with a pre-existing condition, I and millions of others don't know where we'll be getting our medication and care in the future.

Such a joyous day. Good work, Republicans. So much winning. Way to show us how a healthcare system should be run.

Honestly, single-payer nationalized insurance is simply a superior system in every way. As the idea picks up steam, I'll be curious to see the disinformation campaign the insurance industry launches to rile up the stupids into accepting an inferior, dysfunctional system for the sake of a few individual's pocketbooks.

So far, I hear "but the gubmint" and "socialism"

I trust the government more than I trust the insurance industry. I have representatives in government. I don't have representatives in Kaiser's boardroom.

Also, not afraid of the socialist boogeyman. Every other developed nation on earth has a national health plan, and none have switched to our system. There's a good reason for this.

Anyway, carry on.

They also have longer wait lines. I have been on Medicaid and would wish it on no one. If we are going to have government healthcare people should be able to choose to get additional coverage ( as they can now.)

 

[RDKirk]

Are you not aware that the rest of the developed world has figured out how to deliver healthcare to people for LESS than we do? How could you possibly think there is no other alternative? Other countries deliver better health outcomes for less money by creating a very large pool and eliminating or reducing profit in health care. Fact.

There had always been non-profit health insurance plans in the US prior to fairly recent years. In fact, I think prior to the 60s, they were all non-profit.

 

[RDKirk]

They also have longer wait lines. I have been on Medicaid and would wish it on no one. If we are going to have government healthcare people should be able to choose to get additional coverage ( as they can now.)

Are there any countries you're aware of with national health care that don't permit additional private insurance?

 

[RDKirk]

If you can't afford your treatment, you should die.

Jesus came into the world to kill off the poor.

I have already pointed out that there is a strong concept in America--particularly in Evangelical Christians--that "if something bad happened to you, it's because you're sinful and you should die."

 

[RDKirk]

They also have longer wait lines. I have been on Medicaid and would wish it on no one. If we are going to have government healthcare people should be able to choose to get additional coverage ( as they can now.)

And I've been in the military, and I thought military care was great.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Are there any countries you're aware of with national health care that don't permit additional private insurance?

I didn't say there was but if that is the case what is the point of single-payer.

 

[Sparagmos]

There had always been non-profit health insurance plans in the US prior to fairly recent years. In fact, I think prior to the 60s, they were all non-profit.

Yup. I actually am in one now - a Taft-Hartley union trust health insurance plan.

 

[dogs4thewin]

And I've been in the military, and I thought military care was great.

honest question how are the lines NOW? In other words there from what I understand is a difference in being in and the VA once you are out. In that the VA has taken a LOT of crap, but it is not as it relates to service members on active duty.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I have already pointed out that there is a strong concept in America--particularly in Evangelical Christians--that "if something bad happened to you, it's because you're sinful and you should die."

I fail to see that what I DO see and do believe is that people should be accountable for their own choices. Not all bad things that happen to you are due to your personal sin, but at the same time you cannot just do things and when it turns out badly ( even if it may be the best personal decision you have ever made think that it becomes other people's problem.

 

[Sparagmos]

I personally do not know of any situation where a person was dropped from insurance, unless they lied on their application for insurance. If you lie on your application for insurance, in order to avoid higher premiums, that's on you when you get dropped.

However, as to your first question, let's think about this from a different perspective.

Say that you and me, and the other people in the company we work for, decide together that we're not going to deal with insurance companies. So we create our own health care pool. We all pay a monthly premium into the pool, and whenever we have an illness we just write a check from the pool.

Everything is working fine. Then the company hires a new employee. He chooses to use his own health insurance. 5 years later, he finds out he has cancer, and decides to switch to our health care pool.

A million dollars later, we all have to double our payments into the health care pool, to cover this one guy who didn't pay a dollar into the pool, until he got sick, and switched insurance.

Would you still think that is fair? You have to pay more, because this guy switched insurance?
weBecause that is exactly what would happen, except there is a company between you and this guy. But the effects are exactly the same.

Then why don’t European countries pay twice what we do for healthcare? That’s actually not a good analogy for single payer healthcare. Your pool is a miniscule fraction of what the pool would be. With single payer or universal healthcare, every citizen is in the pool, and the healthy young people who rarely go to the doctor mitigate the cost of the older and less healthy people. And we know that it costs less than the system we have now. A lot less. I am in a non-profit union health trust and the cost of platinum plus full family health insurance is $970/mo, about half of the cost if you went with one of the non-union for profit platinum employer plans. That is because the health trust requires the company to pay for EVERY employee, so there are a lot of healthy single people in there along with the families. We don’t have to come up with analogies, just compare healthcare costs in our country with any country that has universal health care.

 

[Sparagmos]

More power to her. Regardless, we can't afford to pay for everyone. Would she believe it was sent from G-d, when she is literally contributing to the absolute destruction of the country?

That's from G-d?

Look at Greece, and Venezuela, and every country that has adopted this system of having everyone else, pay for the needs of everyone's wants and needs. The result has been death and destruction. Universally.

The Soviet Union was eating people, by the time it collapsed. I'm sure when it started, there were people in the Soviet Union, thinking "isn't this wonderful!".... and then they ended up dead. Starving. Killing each other for food.

Just like Venezuela, the most oil rich country in the world, where people are starving to death.

There is no question, that to the few it is a great 'blessing' in their view, to have other people pay their bills. But do blessings from G-d, really come at the cost of everyone else? Does G-d really bless you, by destroying others? I suppose maybe if the other in question are all evil people.

That's not a blessing that I would want. I would not want to avoid be in poverty, by forcing others to be poor.

Germany, Japan, Sweden, New Zealand and Canada are experiencing “death and destruction?” Are you that misinformed?

 

[RDKirk]

I didn't say there was but if that is the case what is the point of single-payer.

The point is to cover what is necessary to keep people basically healthy. Most people wouldn't need more than that.

 

[Sparagmos]

More power to her. Regardless, we can't afford to pay for everyone. Would she believe it was sent from G-d, when she is literally contributing to the absolute destruction of the country?

That's from G-d?

Look at Greece, and Venezuela, and every country that has adopted this system of having everyone else, pay for the needs of everyone's wants and needs. The result has been death and destruction. Universally.

The Soviet Union was eating people, by the time it collapsed. I'm sure when it started, there were people in the Soviet Union, thinking "isn't this wonderful!".... and then they ended up dead. Starving. Killing each other for food.

Just like Venezuela, the most oil rich country in the world, where people are starving to death.

There is no question, that to the few it is a great 'blessing' in their view, to have other people pay their bills. But do blessings from G-d, really come at the cost of everyone else? Does G-d really bless you, by destroying others? I suppose maybe if the other in question are all evil people.

That's not a blessing that I would want. I would not want to avoid be in poverty, by forcing others to be poor.

We can absolutely afford to pay for everyone. For far less than what we spend now. We just can’t affird the profit we are paying to the greedy insureabce and drug companiesz

 

[RDKirk]

honest question how are the lines NOW? In other words there from what I understand is a difference in being in and the VA once you are out. In that the VA has taken a LOT of crap, but it is not as it relates to service members on active duty.

Being retired, I still have access to military hospitals--and they're still great.

The problem with the VA is the way Congress funds it. Every congresscritter makes sure VA funding is equitable across all the states.

The distribution of veterans is not, however, equitable across all the states...but Congress will not acknowledge that fact in their funding.

If you're a veteran in Vermont or New Hampshire, you can just walk into a VA hospital whenever you want. Florida or Arizona...not so much.

 

[dogs4thewin]

The point is to cover what is necessary to keep people basically healthy. Most people wouldn't need more than that.

Well then you have the issue of what is basic? What I consider basic may be something different than you consider basic and what I am willing to do may be different than what you are willing to do. In other words, for example, I have about decided if I was told I needed a liver transplant they could call hospice in other people ( particularly my age ( I am not yet 30) may feel differently yet in most cases by the time you need a transplant that is pretty bad.

 

[Sparagmos]

I fail to see that what I DO see and do believe is that people should be accountable for their own choices. Not all bad things that happen to you are due to your personal sin, but at the same time you cannot just do things and when it turns out badly ( even if it may be the best personal decision you have ever made think that it becomes other people's problem.

Not being able to afford health insurance isn’t something you did to yourself.