The True Sabbath day.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Brother Owl

Active Member
Nov 15, 2003
342
0
65
in the world but not of it
✟486.00
Faith
Christian
muffler dragon said:
Dear Brother Owl:

A Jew is a Jew is a Jew. There are certain things, in particular, that the Jewish nation is called to. This is a particular inference to the 'reNEWed' Covenant. The calling of the nation now has the opportunity to come to fruition with the sacrifice of Y'shua.

I understand that I probably came off harse on Ronba, and for that I apologize. However, the content of what I have to say still remains fairly intact. There is no spiritualizing of Israel. Israel is always going to be a nation. They are a physical people. People who are not Jewish will periodically (or more often than not) come up with such things as stated by Ronba. Some take it to the extreme that the Jewish people have been rejected by G-d, and that He now accepts only the 'christian' church. I hope you can see where I am going with this.

I probably shouldn't have addressed it at all considering this has nothing to do with the Sabbath thread, but I see this type of stuff all the time and to be quite frank: it gets irritating.

Sorry for the rant.

m.d.

Dear muffler dragon

Your above post is much appreciated, you shine with depth, wisdom, and humility!

Thank You! You Blessed Me!

1Cr 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

Blessings!
Brother Owl
 
Upvote 0

@@Paul@@

The Key that Fits:Acts 28
Mar 24, 2004
3,050
72
53
Seattle
✟11,081.00
Faith
Baptist
RonBa said:
Look at what Paul says.

Galatians 3:27-29

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

When we believe in Christ we are "Abraham's seed"

We will receive the promises of Abraham.

That makes us spiritual Jews.
Being the seed of Abraham does not make you "of Israel".
Rom 9:6-7 KJV
(6) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
(7) Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.​
It's the seed of Isaac that counts.

Second,,, (I think I’ve mentioned this at least twice today, weird). Our inheritance is through Christ.

Believe me, You are just as special in the eyes of God just as Israel (the nation He CREATED) is... and you have a purpose, just as they do.............. it is not the same purpose.

I pray that... :prayer:
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his (Christ's) inheritance in the saints (Most Holy),​
 
Upvote 0

RonBa

Active Member
Jul 27, 2004
182
5
✟337.00
Faith
Protestant
@@Paul@@ said:
Being the seed of Abraham does not make you "of Israel".
Rom 9:6-7 KJV

(6) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
(7) Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
It's the seed of Isaac that counts.


Second,,, (I think I’ve mentioned this at least twice today, weird). Our inheritance is through Christ.

Believe me, You are just as special in the eyes of God just as Israel (the nation He CREATED) is... and you have a purpose, just as they do.............. it is not the same purpose.



I pray that... :prayer:
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his (Christ's) inheritance in the saints (Most Holy),​
The nation of Israel that God chose as His special people to tell the world about salvation is no longer special.

They are finished.

If we believe in Christ we are now par-takers of the promise that was made to Abraham and are spiritual Jews.
 
Upvote 0

muffler dragon

Ineffable
Apr 7, 2004
7,320
382
49
✟24,396.00
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
RonBa said:
The nation of Israel that God chose as His special people to tell the world about salvation is no longer special.

They are finished.

If we believe in Christ we are now par-takers of the promise that was made to Abraham and are spiritual Jews.
The physical nation of Israel is an inheritance to G-d FOREVER. How many places do you want this pointed out to you in Scripture? The Jews have not been done away with. I hope that you will reconsider what you are saying, because it's root are in anti-semitism.

I decided to post-add some Scripture to this:

Joshua 14

Joshua 14
9 "So Moses swore on that day, saying, 'Surely (1) the land on which your foot has trodden will be an inheritance to you and to your children forever, because you have followed the LORD my God fully.'

Ezra 9
12 'So now do not (1) give your daughters to their sons nor take their daughters to your sons, and (2) never seek their peace or their prosperity, that you may be strong and eat the good things of the land and (3) leave it as an inheritance to your sons forever.'

Psalm 28
9
(1) Save Your people and bless (2) Your inheritance;
Be their (3) shepherd also, and (4) carry them forever.

Psalm 37
18
The LORD (1) knows the days of the blameless,
And their (2) inheritance will be forever.

2 Samuel 7
24 "For (1) You have established for Yourself Your people Israel as Your own people forever, and (2) You, O LORD, have become their God.

1 Chronicles 17
22 "(1) For Your people Israel You made Your own people forever, and You, O LORD, became their God.

1 Chronicles 23
25 For David said, "The LORD God of Israel (1) has given rest to His people, and He dwells in Jerusalem forever.

2 Chronicles 20
7 "Did You not, O our God, drive out the inhabitants of this land before Your people Israel and (1) give it to the descendants of (2) Abraham Your friend forever?

Ezra 3
11 (1) They sang, praising and giving thanks to the LORD, saying, "(2) For He is good, for His lovingkindness is upon Israel forever." And all the people shouted with a great shout when they praised the LORD because the foundation of the house of the LORD was laid.

Psalm 28
9
(1) Save Your people and bless (2) Your inheritance;
Be their (3) shepherd also, and (4) carry them forever.

Psalm 79
13
So we Your people and the (1) sheep of Your pasture
Will (2) give thanks to You forever;
To all generations we will (3) tell of Your praise.

Psalm 111
9
He has sent (1) redemption to His people;
He has ordained His covenant forever;
(2) Holy and awesome is His name.

Psalm 125
2
As the mountains surround Jerusalem,
So (1) the LORD surrounds His people
(2) From this time forth and forever.

Isaiah 60
21
"Then all your (1) people will be righteous;
They will (2) possess the land forever,
The branch of My planting,
The (3) work of My hands,
That I may be (4) glorified.

Micah 4
5
Though all the peoples walk
Each in the (1) name of his god,
As for us, (2) we will walk
In the name of the (3) LORD our God forever and ever.

So, as you can see, Ronba, the land and the nation of Israel is before G-d forever. Show me anywhere that we can determine otherwise.

One thing you seem to be forgetting, Ronba, is who did Y'shua come for?

Matthew 15
24 But He answered and said, "I was sent only to (1) the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Now, before you try to spiritualize this as you have done with the Scripture above, how about we look at it at face value? This is the exact same people who are spoken about in Hosea and it is in reference to the covenant discussed in Jeremiah 31. This is further proof that Y'shua came "primarily" to re-NEW the covenant between G-d and Israel.

I had hoped ,after writing Brother Owl last night, that I had over-reacted and been too harsh. But it appears that I was right on the money in my assumptions.

m.d.
 
Upvote 0

muffler dragon

Ineffable
Apr 7, 2004
7,320
382
49
✟24,396.00
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
Brother Owl said:
Dear muffler dragon

Your above post is much appreciated, you shine with depth, wisdom, and humility!

Thank You! You Blessed Me!

1Cr 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

Blessings!
Brother Owl
Dear Brother Owl:

I am very sorry that I passed over this post before making my new one just above. Thank you so much for the kind words. They are much appreciated.

Shalom,

m.d.
 
Upvote 0

RonBa

Active Member
Jul 27, 2004
182
5
✟337.00
Faith
Protestant
2 Chronicles 7:14-22
14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 15 Now my eyes will be open and my ears attentive to the prayers offered in this place. 16 I have chosen and consecrated this temple so that my Name may be there forever. My eyes and my heart will always be there.
17 "As for you, if you walk before me as David your father did, and do all I command, and observe my decrees and laws, 18 I will establish your royal throne, as I covenanted with David your father when I said, 'You shall never fail to have a man to rule over Israel.'
19 "But if you [3] turn away and forsake the decrees and commands I have given you [4] and go off to serve other gods and worship them, 20 then I will uproot Israel from my land, which I have given them, and will reject this temple I have consecrated for my Name. I will make it a byword and an object of ridicule among all peoples. 21 And though this temple is now so imposing, all who pass by will be appalled and say, 'Why has the LORD done such a thing to this land and to this temple?' 22 People will answer, 'Because they have forsaken the LORD , the God of their fathers, who brought them out of Egypt, and have embraced other gods, worshiping and serving them-that is why he brought all this disaster on them.' "

Daniel 9:10-14
10 we have not obeyed the LORD our God or kept the laws he gave us through his servants the prophets. 11 All Israel has transgressed your law and turned away, refusing to obey you.
"Therefore the curses and sworn judgments written in the Law of Moses, the servant of God, have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against you. 12 You have fulfilled the words spoken against us and against our rulers by bringing upon us great disaster. Under the whole heaven nothing has ever been done like what has been done to Jerusalem. 13 Just as it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us, yet we have not sought the favor of the LORD our God by turning from our sins and giving attention to your truth. 14 The LORD did not hesitate to bring the disaster upon us, for the LORD our God is righteous in everything he does; yet we have not obeyed him.


Daniel 9:27
24 "Seventy 'sevens' [3] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish [4] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy

When you look at the above verses we can see that God chose Israel to be His special people.

Their prosperity depended on one thing and one thing alone. That was if they were faithful to God.

They were not. God had allowed them to go into captivity and then brought them out of it. God gave them time, 490 years to repent. They did not so God has cast them aside as a nation, not as individuals within that nation.

Move onto the New Testament

Galatians 3:28,29
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Paul is saying here that there is neither Jew nor Greek. The important thing is to belong to Christ.

Then if we belong to Christ we are of the "Abraham's seed"

That makes followers of Christ spiritual Jews.

Jeremiah 3:8
And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
 
Upvote 0

muffler dragon

Ineffable
Apr 7, 2004
7,320
382
49
✟24,396.00
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
Dear Ronba:

After all those verses you present, you still read into this what you want:

Ronba said:
When you look at the above verses we can see that God chose Israel to be His special people.

Their prosperity depended on one thing and one thing alone. That was if they were faithful to God.

They were not. God had allowed them to go into captivity and then brought them out of it. God gave them time, 490 years to repent. They did not so God has cast them aside as a nation, not as individuals within that nation.

How do you figure?

Have you not read Jeremiah 31? The Jews will be a people special to G-d forever. Did you just ignore all of the verses I showed you above.

They will never be cast away. They have not been cast away.

Hundreds of thousands of Jews came to believe in Y'shua. Where do you figure that they were discarded? You are simply reading into it what you want.

Ronba said:
Paul is saying here that there is neither Jew nor Greek. The important thing is to belong to Christ.

Then if we belong to Christ we are of the "Abraham's seed"

That makes followers of Christ spiritual Jews.

Unbelievable. Do you do this will all of Scripture? Are you a man or a woman? Are you a particular gender? Are you of a particular nationality? What you're missing in all of this is that you were created a particular way for a particular reason. You have a calling as a gentile. The Jews have a calling as well. What Sha'ul is talking about in Galatians is that all are viewed equally before G-d, but there are still the physical distinctions on this earth.

Ronba said:
Jeremiah 3:8
And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

And if you read on in the book, you'll see what else goes on:

Jeremiah 31:
A New Covenant

27 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will (69) sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man and with the seed of beast.
28 "As I have (70) watched over them to (71) pluck up, to break down, to overthrow, to destroy and to bring disaster, so I will watch over them to (72) build and to plant," declares the LORD.
29
"In those days they will not say again,
'(73) The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children's teeth are set on edge.'
30 "But (74) everyone will die for his own iniquity; each man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth will be set on edge.
31 "(75) Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a (76) new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
32 not like the (77) covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I (78) took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My (79) covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD.
33 "But (80) this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "(81) I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and (82) I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
34 "They will (83) not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all (84) know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will (85) forgive their iniquity, and their (86) sin I will remember no more."
35
Thus says the LORD,
Who (87) gives the sun for light by day
And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
Who (88) stirs up the sea so that its waves roar;
(89) The LORD of hosts is His name:
36
"(90) If this fixed order departs
From before Me," declares the LORD,
"Then the offspring of Israel also will (91) cease
From being a nation before Me forever."
37 Thus says the LORD,
"(92) If the heavens above can be measured
And the foundations of the earth searched out below,
Then I will also (93) cast off all the offspring of Israel
For all that they have done," declares the LORD.
38 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when the (94) city will be rebuilt for the LORD from the (95) Tower of Hananel to the (96) Corner Gate.
39 "The (97) measuring line will go out farther straight ahead to the hill Gareb; then it will turn to Goah.
40 "And (98) the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the brook (99) Kidron, to the corner of the (100) Horse Gate toward the east, shall be (101) holy to the LORD; it will not be plucked up or overthrown anymore forever."

This is what Y'shua came to restore to the lost sheep of Israel.

Are you able to grasp this yet or are you still going to try to take what is NOT rightfully yours?

m.d.
 
Upvote 0

Andre

Bondservent of Christ
Oct 25, 2003
691
205
43
Richmond, VA
Visit site
✟1,847.00
Faith
Baptist
RonBa said:
The nation of Israel that God chose as His special people to tell the world about salvation is no longer special.

They are finished.

If we believe in Christ we are now par-takers of the promise that was made to Abraham and are spiritual Jews.
Sorry RomBa, but God is still in the process of dealing with the nation of Israel, if we take your statment "They are finished" as true it would invalidate the book of Revelation , it would also invalidate all the promisses that God made to Israel, and Jesus' prophecies dealing with the rebirth of Israel, you can also take the 70 weeks of Daniel and discard the last one because it still hasn't happend yet and it will happen centered in Israel after the rapture of the church and the reconstruction of the Temple, there''s also the 144000 Jew evangelists that are set apart to witness during the 70th week.

We are gentiles, but thru faith in Jesus we are made partakers of the promisses, that doesn't mean that the Jews are partakers apart from Jesus because they are not, there's only one way to be saved and it's through Jesus, they rejected the Messiah that was prophecied from Genesis to Malachi, but God is still dealing with the nation of Israel and ultimatly they will acept Jesus as the Messiah at the second comming.
 
Upvote 0

muffler dragon

Ineffable
Apr 7, 2004
7,320
382
49
✟24,396.00
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
Dear Andre:

The only thing that you said that I wanted to correct you on was this:

Andre said:
there's only one way to be saved and it's through Jesus, they rejected the Messiah that was prophecied from Genesis to Malachi

There were hundreds of thousands of Jews who accepted Y'shua; not all rejected him. Furthermore, (and this will probably be a HUGE point of contention) the Torah observant Jew never needed a form of salvation. If he was repentant and walked before G-d with a clean conscience, then he was accepted. Y'shua came to annul the bill of divorce that G-d had given to Israel in Hosea and Jeremiah.

Shalom,

m.d.
 
Upvote 0

Brother Owl

Active Member
Nov 15, 2003
342
0
65
in the world but not of it
✟486.00
Faith
Christian
Isaiah 43:5,6 "Do not fear for I am with you," says the Lord, "I will bring your offspring from the east, and gather you from the west. I will say to the north, 'Give them up!' and to the south, 'Do not hold them back.' Bring My sons from afar and My daughters from the ends of the earth."

Jeremiah 16:14,15 predicts: "Therefore behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when it will no longer be said, 'As the Lord lives, who brought up the sons of Israel out of the land of Egypt,' but, 'As the Lord lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of the north and from all the countries where he had banished them.' For I will restore them to their own land which I gave to their fathers."

I believe the above scripture is taking place today as we speak.

Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

@@Paul@@

The Key that Fits:Acts 28
Mar 24, 2004
3,050
72
53
Seattle
✟11,081.00
Faith
Baptist
muffler dragon said:
There were hundreds of thousands of Jews who accepted Y'shua; not all rejected him. Furthermore, (and this will probably be a HUGE point of contention) the Torah observant Jew never needed a form of salvation. If he was repentant and walked before G-d with a clean conscience, then he was accepted. Y'shua came to annul the bill of divorce that G-d had given to Israel in Hosea and Jeremiah.

Shalom,

m.d.
I THINK this is a BIG one people miss...
 
Upvote 0

deu58

Senior Veteran
Dec 12, 2003
3,099
75
67
Philippines
Visit site
✟11,169.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Hi M. D

Unbelievable. Do you do this will all of Scripture?
Well actually, yes he does.

I do not believe in replacement theology. I believe in addition theology. According to the book of Hebrews the original true church did not start at the cross but goes back to the beginning.

Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh

Abel, Enoch, Noah etc. are also members of Gods church. These were Gentiles before the time of the Jews. Later God raised up the Jews as a prophetic nation after 99% of the gentiles became idol worshippers. One of the purposes of Israel was to be a witness to the Gentiles of the Truth, Goodness and Holiness of God. Thus the Nation of Israel was added to the church, Then came Jesus and added a whole new element to the church.
The regathering of lost Gentile Nations,

Paul tells us that Israel has not been cast away but that we { the Gentiles} have been grafted in.

Ro 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Ro 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Ro 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Ro 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Does this mean every Jew that rejects Jesus and does evil in the sight of God will be saved? No I do not think so, No more than every Gentile who rejects Christ and continues to do evil will be saved.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

But what if God chooses to save the pious Jews who do not know Christ?

Ro 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Ro 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.


Ro 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Ro 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

People seem to think that Jesus is the end of the prophetic fulfillment of Israel. I do not agree. To me any one who holds such thoughts is deaf dumb and blind to things that are happening in our world today and the end time prophecies of the book of Revelation.

Replacement Theology is nothing more than the rebirth of the Exclusionist Theology practiced by certain Jews before and during the time of Christ which Jesus rejected.

yours in Christ
deu58
 
  • Like
Reactions: Andre
Upvote 0

Ave Maria

Ave Maria Gratia Plena
May 31, 2004
41,090
1,994
41
Diocese of Evansville, IN
✟108,471.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I believe that we are to keep the Sabbath by resting if possible. However, I don't believe God will punish us if we cannot rest on the Sabbath (Saturday). However, I believe we should worship on the Lord's Day (Sunday) if at all possible.
 
Upvote 0

muffler dragon

Ineffable
Apr 7, 2004
7,320
382
49
✟24,396.00
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
Couple things, deu:

1) I hope you understand that my letter was not directed to you.

2) The Book of Hebrews: one thing that people tend to forget is who the audience was: Hebrews. This book was written from a Jew to Jews. That may help clear up any discrepancy you and I have.

3)
deu said:
Does this mean every Jew that rejects Jesus and does evil in the sight of God will be saved? No I do not think so, No more than every Gentile who rejects Christ and continues to do evil will be saved.

Agreed, but remember, I was talking about the salvation of the Torah-observant Jew who is obedient to G-d.

4) Replacement Theology is actually a 'doctrine' that the majority of the 'christian' church holds on to. I see it on a daily occurence even on these forums. Here is a good understanding of my defintion of it, and what I agree is dangerous about it.

http://www.mjaa.org/biblicaljudaism/EphraimiteErrorSummary.html

I don't see much that I disagreed with you on in your post. Did I write something to get it out of you or were you addressing something I am unaware of?

Shalom,

m.d.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

muffler dragon

Ineffable
Apr 7, 2004
7,320
382
49
✟24,396.00
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
deu58 said:
Hi M D

I answered this post in the other thread. Somebody is going to start yelling thread drift probably so I fgure it is best to talk about it in the take away the kingdom thread.

yours in Christ
deu58
That's suitable. I have responded in the other thread. However, I will admit that I'll be quick to return should I see some of the same 'type' threads by Ronba.

m.d.
 
Upvote 0

deu58

Senior Veteran
Dec 12, 2003
3,099
75
67
Philippines
Visit site
✟11,169.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Hi M. D

I hope you do not think I was trying to imply anything by commenting on thread drift. It is just I have seen people on this forum get upset over it, Personally thread drift does not really bother me. I think this thread has pretty much ran out of gas unless some one can come up with something new. :sleep:

yours in Christ
deu58
 
Upvote 0

muffler dragon

Ineffable
Apr 7, 2004
7,320
382
49
✟24,396.00
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
deu58 said:
Hi M. D

I hope you do not think I was trying to imply anything by commenting on thread drift. It is just I have seen people on this forum get upset over it, Personally thread drift does not really bother me. I think this thread has pretty much ran out of gas unless some one can come up with something new. :sleep:

yours in Christ
deu58
Doesn't bother me in the slightest. :)

Shalom,

m.d.
 
Upvote 0

Andre

Bondservent of Christ
Oct 25, 2003
691
205
43
Richmond, VA
Visit site
✟1,847.00
Faith
Baptist
muffler dragon said:
Dear Andre:

The only thing that you said that I wanted to correct you on was this:



There were hundreds of thousands of Jews who accepted Y'shua; not all rejected him. Furthermore, (and this will probably be a HUGE point of contention) the Torah observant Jew never needed a form of salvation. If he was repentant and walked before G-d with a clean conscience, then he was accepted. Y'shua came to annul the bill of divorce that G-d had given to Israel in Hosea and Jeremiah.

Shalom,

m.d.
When I said the nation of Israel I meant the majority of the nation , but of course there are exeptions, just like the US is called a Christian nation but not all are Christians.

With regards to the Jews needing salvation that's what repenting and presenting sacrifices was, it was a representation of the ultimate sacrifice that was fulfilled in Jesus, He was the umblemished Passover Lamb.

But what I tried to present was that the way of salvation is the same today for Jews or Gentiles.

Yours in Christ,
Andre.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

RonBa

Active Member
Jul 27, 2004
182
5
✟337.00
Faith
Protestant
Andre said:
Sorry RomBa, but God is still in the process of dealing with the nation of Israel, if we take your statment "They are finished" as true it would invalidate the book of Revelation , it would also invalidate all the promisses that God made to Israel, and Jesus' prophecies dealing with the rebirth of Israel, you can also take the 70 weeks of Daniel and discard the last one because it still hasn't happend yet and it will happen centered in Israel after the rapture of the church and the reconstruction of the Temple, there''s also the 144000 Jew evangelists that are set apart to witness during the 70th week.

We are gentiles, but thru faith in Jesus we are made partakers of the promisses, that doesn't mean that the Jews are partakers apart from Jesus because they are not, there's only one way to be saved and it's through Jesus, they rejected the Messiah that was prophecied from Genesis to Malachi, but God is still dealing with the nation of Israel and ultimatly they will acept Jesus as the Messiah at the second comming.
2 Chronicles 7:14-22
14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 15 Now my eyes will be open and my ears attentive to the prayers offered in this place. 16 I have chosen and consecrated this temple so that my Name may be there forever. My eyes and my heart will always be there.
17 "As for you, if you walk before me as David your father did, and do all I command, and observe my decrees and laws, 18 I will establish your royal throne, as I covenanted with David your father when I said, 'You shall never fail to have a man to rule over Israel.'
19 "But if you [3] turn away and forsake the decrees and commands I have given you [4] and go off to serve other gods and worship them, 20 then I will uproot Israel from my land, which I have given them, and will reject this temple I have consecrated for my Name. I will make it a byword and an object of ridicule among all peoples. 21 And though this temple is now so imposing, all who pass by will be appalled and say, 'Why has the LORD done such a thing to this land and to this temple?' 22 People will answer, 'Because they have forsaken the LORD , the God of their fathers, who brought them out of Egypt, and have embraced other gods, worshiping and serving them-that is why he brought all this disaster on them.' "

Daniel 9:10-14
10 we have not obeyed the LORD our God or kept the laws he gave us through his servants the prophets. 11 All Israel has transgressed your law and turned away, refusing to obey you.
"Therefore the curses and sworn judgments written in the Law of Moses, the servant of God, have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against you. 12 You have fulfilled the words spoken against us and against our rulers by bringing upon us great disaster. Under the whole heaven nothing has ever been done like what has been done to Jerusalem. 13 Just as it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us, yet we have not sought the favor of the LORD our God by turning from our sins and giving attention to your truth. 14 The LORD did not hesitate to bring the disaster upon us, for the LORD our God is righteous in everything he does; yet we have not obeyed him.


Daniel 9:27
24 "Seventy 'sevens' [3] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish [4] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy

When you look at the above verses we can see that God chose Israel to be His special people.

Their prosperity depended on one thing and one thing alone. That was if they were faithful to God.

They were not. God had allowed them to go into captivity and then brought them out of it. God gave them time, 490 years to repent. They did not so God has cast them aside as a nation, not as individuals within that nation.

Move onto the New Testament

Galatians 3:28,29
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Paul is saying here that there is neither Jew nor Greek. The important thing is to belong to Christ.

Then if we belong to Christ we are of the "Abraham's seed"

That makes followers of Christ spiritual Jews.

Jeremiah 3:8
And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Look at the verses again. It was a conditional promise. Be obedient and God will bless. They were not.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.