The True Sabbath day.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Johnboy60

Looking For Interesting News.
Dec 28, 2003
15,455
3,130
Tennessee
✟306,929.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Hi, I worked with a guy that went to the SDA church and he said the true Sabbath is Saturday and not Sunday. He said in the Catholic church library of History it says that Pope Constantine changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday is this true? I have something from the internet that talks about the Bible and Church history below.

ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA: Sunday, first day of the week; in Christianity, the Lord's Day, the weekly memorial of Jesus Christ's resurrection from the dead. The practice of Christians gathering together for worship on Sunday dates back to apostolic times, but details of the actual development of the custom are not clear. Before the end of the 1st Century AD, the author of Revelation gave the first day its name of the "Lord's Day" (Rev. 1:10). Saint Justin Martyr (c. 100-c. 165), philosopher and defender of the Christian faith, in his writings described the Christians gathered together for worship on the Lord's Day: the gospels or the Old Testament was read, the presiding minister preached a sermon, and the group prayed together and celebrated the Lord's Supper. The emperor Constantine (d. 337), a convert to Christianity, introduced the first civil legislation concerning Sunday in 321, when he decreed that all work should cease on Sunday, except that farmers could work if necessary. This law, aimed at providing time for worship, was followed later in the same century and in subsequent centuries by further restrictions on Sunday activities. (15th edition, vol. 11, pg. 392)

ENCYCLOPEDIA AMERICANA: From the apostolic era to the present it has been customary for Christians to assemble for communal Sunday services... Civil laws requiring the observance of Sunday date back at least to Emperor Constantine the Great, who designated Sunday as a legal day of rest and worship in 321. This law, however was not specifically Christian, since Sunday was the day of the sun-god for pagans as well as the Lord's day for Christians. While Constantine thus managed to please the two major religious groups in the Roman empire, numerous later law regulating behavior on Sunday have been avowedly Christian. (Sunday, 1988, pg. 21)

COLLIER'S ENCYCLOPEDIA: The New Testament contains clear evidence that from a very early period the first day of the week was observed by Christians as a day of assembly for "the breaking of bread" and perhaps for the collection of freewill offerings. (Acts xx:7 and 1 Corinth xvi:2). Justin Martyr in the middle of the second century describes how "on the day called Sunday" all town and country Christians assembled for instructions in holy writings, for prayer distribution of bread and wine, and the collection of alms. Tertullian declared that the Christians "made Sunday a day of joy, but for other reasons that to adore the sun which was not part of their religion. (Sunday, , 1985, pg. 632-633)

HISTORY OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH: The celebration of the Lord's Day in memory of the resurrection of Christ dates undoubtedly from the apostolic age. Nothing short of apostolic precedent can account for the universal religious observance in the churches of the second century. There is no dissenting voice. This custom is confirmed by the testimonies of the earliest post-apostolic writers, as Barnabas, Ignatius, and Justin Martyr. (Philip Schaff, , vol. 1, pg. 201-202)

HISTORY OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH: Hence, the first day was already in the apostolic age honorably designated as "the Lord's Day." ...it appears, therefore, from the New Testament itself, that Sunday was observed as a day of worship, and in special commemoration of the Resurrection, whereby the work of redemption was finished. The universal and uncontradicted Sunday observance in the second century can only be explained by the fact that it has its roots in apostolic practice. (Philip Schaff, , vol. 1, pg. 478-479)

NEW SCHAFF HERZOG ENCYCLOPEDIA: The earliest traces of the observance of the first day of the week in remembrance of Christ's resurrection is found in the Pauline period of the Apostolic Age... Sunday was first regulated by civil authority in 321, under Constantine, directing that the day be hallowed and observed appropriately. (Sunday, pg. 145)

What do you think of this?

Robert.
 

muffler dragon

Ineffable
Apr 7, 2004
7,320
382
49
✟24,396.00
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
Technically, the Sabbath will always be Saturday.

I have seen documentation of what you mention by Constantine, but I was not the bearer of it.

The Sabbath will never be considered Sunday. Now, days of worship can change. Some worship on Saturday, some on Sunday, some every day of the week.

So, it comes down to a matter of definitions. But to answer your question straight up: no the Sabbath has never been changed by G-d.

m.d.
 
Upvote 0

seangoh

Veteran
Dec 10, 2002
1,295
39
44
Singapore
Visit site
✟16,661.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
Agree with the rest of them.
There is no such thing as a false Sabbath day because by definition, the Sabbath is from friday sundown till saturday sundown. Go ask a Jew and he'll tell you as they've been tracing the Sabbath all this while.

However, i believe you had a deeper question in mind. And that is whether the day of worship has changed. If so, it might be appropriate to start another thread and we can discuss it further there. :)
 
Upvote 0

ClementofRome

Spelunking the most ancient caves of Xianity
May 27, 2004
5,001
123
✟5,769.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
revrobor said:
The sabbath is Saturday. Those who refer to Sunday as the sabbath are mistaken. As has been said Sunday is the Lord's day. FWIW I am neither SDA nor Jewish but a protestant Believer.
Agreed revrobor, and I too am a Protestant believer. In fact, and I of course will be getting myself into trouble for this....the earliest Christian believers did not forsake the Shabbot. It is my opinion (though I am a totally inconsistant Christian in many ways and I do not practice what I am about to suggest), that Christians should be practicing the Shabbot from Friday sundown til Saturday sundown and THEN gather together on the first day of the week to praise and sing and break bread. This was the practice of the 1st and possibly 2nd generation Christians. To practice Shabbot would NOT mean going to the synagogue, but observing the day of rest in holiness and with family. Remember, the commandment from Exodus 20 is to REMEMBER the Shabbot.

Those who would argue for a replacement Sabbath theology are, I believe, mistaken.

In utmost humility,
CofR
 
Upvote 0

muffler dragon

Ineffable
Apr 7, 2004
7,320
382
49
✟24,396.00
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
ClementofRome said:
Agreed revrobor, and I too am a Protestant believer. In fact, and I of course will be getting myself into trouble for this....the earliest Christian believers did not forsake the Shabbot. It is my opinion (though I am a totally inconsistant Christian in many ways and I do not practice what I am about to suggest), that Christians should be practicing the Shabbot from Friday sundown til Saturday sundown and THEN gather together on the first day of the week to praise and sing and break bread. This was the practice of the 1st and possibly 2nd generation Christians. To practice Shabbot would NOT mean going to the synagogue, but observing the day of rest in holiness and with family. Remember, the commandment from Exodus 20 is to REMEMBER the Shabbot.

Those who would argue for a replacement Sabbath theology are, I believe, mistaken.

In utmost humility,
CofR
well said brother.
 
Upvote 0

Oblio

Creed or Chaos
Jun 24, 2003
22,324
865
64
Georgia - USA
Visit site
✟27,610.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
As mentioned above, the practice of celebrating the Eucharist on Sunday began with the Apostolic Fathers and the Apostles that taught them. Saturday is for the commemoration of the dead and preparations for the feast of the Resurrection the following day.
 
Upvote 0

ClementofRome

Spelunking the most ancient caves of Xianity
May 27, 2004
5,001
123
✟5,769.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Oblio said:
As mentioned above, the practice of celebrating the Eucharist on Sunday began with the Apostolic Fathers and the Apostles that taught them. Saturday is for the commemoration of the dead and preparations for the feast of the Resurrection the following day.
Thank you for the comment. May I ask a question? Being not of Orthodox background, would you be kind enough to elaborate on what you mean by
"Saturday is for the commemoration of the dead"? Is this commemoration of the dead Jesus Christ in anticipation of his Sunday resurrection? As you rightly recognize that the celebration of the Eucharist (breaking of the bread) on Sunday began with the Apostolic and post-Apostolic tradition, I have some difficulty in seeing a Shabbot observance being anything other than a memorial "day of rest." Clarification would be enlightening.

Blessings,
CofR
 
Upvote 0

Oblio

Creed or Chaos
Jun 24, 2003
22,324
865
64
Georgia - USA
Visit site
✟27,610.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The commemoration consists of both remeberance/memorial of all who have reposed are at rest awaiting the general Resurrection. This is on Saturday because that was the day of Christ's rest which was foreshadowed by the Jewish Sabbath and fulfilled by His rest on Great and Holy Saturday. We also offer prayers on behalf of the reposed on this day, that they might find eternal rest in the Kingdom of God. We also use this time to remember that we all have this destiny and that death awaits us all. The best way to repentance is to think of our death. For this reason many pious monks have their astere wooden coffins in their cells, as a constant reminder of the most important day in our lives.
 
Upvote 0

Harry the Heretic

guitly of zealotry
Jun 8, 2004
234
13
60
Harvard Il.
✟445.00
Faith
Christian
The Sabbath as well as the passover and other "days" foreshawdow Christ, as does all of the law and the prophets. Just as the Lord is now our passover, he is also our Sabbath, our rest.

Heb 4:
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus(Joshua) had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Symes

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2003
1,832
15
72
Visit site
✟2,069.00
Faith
Christian
muffler dragon said:
Technically, the Sabbath will always be Saturday.

I have seen documentation of what you mention by Constantine, but I was not the bearer of it.

The Sabbath will never be considered Sunday. Now, days of worship can change. Some worship on Saturday, some on Sunday, some every day of the week.

So, it comes down to a matter of definitions. But to answer your question straight up: no the Sabbath has never been changed by G-d.

m.d.
Correct, the sabbath was never changed by God, Jesus, or the Apostles.

If one wants the correct hsitory of what happened there is no better place to than the Catholic Church. The catholic Church has all the hisrorical records of what happened and when it happened.

The Catholic Church tells the truth on this matter.

If our original poster wants more info on this then PM me and I wll supply as much as is required.
 
Upvote 0

Symes

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2003
1,832
15
72
Visit site
✟2,069.00
Faith
Christian
Oblio said:
As mentioned above, the practice of celebrating the Eucharist on Sunday began with the Apostolic Fathers and the Apostles that taught them. Saturday is for the commemoration of the dead and preparations for the feast of the Resurrection the following day.
Can I with all due repect to you ask a simple question.

Where is the above in the Bible?
 
Upvote 0

hraedisc

Veteran
Nov 6, 2002
1,243
20
Visit site
✟16,583.00
Faith
SDA
sabbath_sunday.jpg


From Sabbath to Sunday: A Historical Investigation of the Rise of Sunday Observance in Early Christianity

Four of the eleven chapters can
be accessed by clicking below


http://www2.andrews.edu/~samuele/books/sabbath_to_sunday/
 
  • Like
Reactions: Icyspark
Upvote 0

Symes

Well-Known Member
Nov 11, 2003
1,832
15
72
Visit site
✟2,069.00
Faith
Christian
<>< said:
sabbath_sunday.jpg


From Sabbath to Sunday: A Historical Investigation of the Rise of Sunday Observance in Early Christianity

Four of the eleven chapters can
be accessed by clicking below


http://www2.andrews.edu/~samuele/books/sabbath_to_sunday/

If one looks at this work you will see that all of the information that is there was gathered right at the foot of the Pope. It was while he did his studies at the Catholic University in Rome. Bacchiocchi was the first Protestant and only Protestant to ever be granted the chance to study there. It has been stopped now and no more Protestants will ever be allowed that chance.

The Catholic Church has all the records on this and he looked at them and was granted a PhD for his time of study there with the "imprimatur" being in the front of his book as a sign from the Catholic Church that what is written in the book is true.

 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Oblio

Creed or Chaos
Jun 24, 2003
22,324
865
64
Georgia - USA
Visit site
✟27,610.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Symes said:
Can I with all due repect to you ask a simple question.

Where is the above in the Bible?

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
(Acts 20:7)

The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain: But, when he was in Rome, he sought me out very diligently, and found me. The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.
(2 Timothy 1:16-18)

Then under the tunic of every one of the dead they found sacred tokens of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. And it became clear to all that this was why these men had fallen. So they all blessed the ways of the Lord, the righteous Judge, who reveals the things that are hidden; and they turned to prayer, beseeching that the sin which had been committed might be wholly blotted out. And the noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.
(2 Maccabees 12:40-42)



And St. Justin Martyr c 140 AD speaks of that which was taught by the Apostles:

CHAP. LXVI.--OF THE EUCHARIST.

And this food is called among us E<greek>ukaristia</greek>(5) [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.(6) For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, "This do ye in remembrance of Me,(7) this is My body;" and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, "This is My blood;" and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.

CHAP. LXVII.--WEEKLY WORSHIP OF THE CHRISTIANS.

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,(1) all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability,(2) and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given,(3) and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.
 
Upvote 0

The Thadman

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2002
1,783
59
✟2,318.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
revrobor said:
The sabbath is Saturday. Those who refer to Sunday as the sabbath are mistaken. As has been said Sunday is the Lord's day.

"The Lord's Day" is a Jewish term for the Sabbath, as it was on the 7th day he rested :)

How it came to be known as Sunday is something that came along with later interpretation of Paul's letters. Paul, being a Jew, used it as Jews did.

Peace!
-Steve-o
 
Upvote 0

Harry the Heretic

guitly of zealotry
Jun 8, 2004
234
13
60
Harvard Il.
✟445.00
Faith
Christian
The Thadman said:
"The Lord's Day" is a Jewish term for the Sabbath, as it was on the 7th day he rested :)

How it came to be known as Sunday is something that came along with later interpretation of Paul's letters. Paul, being a Jew, used it as Jews did.

Peace!
-Steve-o
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The author is Paul. Yes Paul was a Jew and praciticed as such, and testified to James in Jerusalem that he did not to the contrary, nor subvert them, but at the same time he was all things to all people, and taught truth and above all, faith. For just as Abraham was called to a land that he did not know, even more so was Paul (and in the most extreme case was Christ himself, leaving his estate in heaven).

The book of acts may be used to site a pattern of worship on sundays, but I do not see that Paul was teaching a new Sabbath. He always taught faith, and Christ as the fullfilment of the law. If he was the author Hebrews ( and I believe he was), he taught that the Lord Jesus is our Sabbath. The Alph and the Omega, the first covenant to the last.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ClementofRome

Spelunking the most ancient caves of Xianity
May 27, 2004
5,001
123
✟5,769.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Harry the Heretic said:
The book of acts may be used to site a pattern of worship on sundays, but I do not see that Paul was teaching a new Sabbath.
Here, here! In total agreement.

Harry the Heretic said:
He always taught faith, and Christ as the fullfilment of the law.
AMEN! Preach on brother Harry!

Harry the Heretic said:
If he was the author Hebrews ( and I believe he was), he taught that the Lord Jesus is our Sabbath. The Alph and the Omega, the first covenant to the last.
Though I would not agree on authorship at this point (I lean toward Paul's student Luke....but alas, with massive Pauline influence, but this is for another thread! :D ), I would totally agree with the teaching of the author of the sermon to the Hebrews and totally agree with you.

Excellent points, all.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.