THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

DO YOU AGREE WITH THE OP POST?


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I await your evidence.


You were given your evidence which you have rejected. It is found in the following:


"What! have we supplanted the Jews? No, but we are said to be their supplanters, for that for our sakes they were supplanted...The time will come, the end of the world will come, and all Israel shall believe; not they who now are, but their children who shall then be."


Augustine did not believe the Church to be a supplanter of the nation of Israel and that if the Church was a supplanter, it was only in the temporal sense since he believed that Israel would eventually repent. Despite your insistence that he did not believe in a national restoration, Augustine, at least as far as the cited quote is concerned, never said anything to suggest that he did not believe that.
 
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Can you show us any proof where these earlier sources claimed modern Jews would come to salvation outside of the Church during a future time, which is one of the greatest errors of modern Dispensational Theology?

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When did I ever say that the Jews would ever come to salvation outside of Christ?
 
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BABerean2

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Verse 26 "after 483 years shall Jesus be killed but not for Himself!"

If we are to follow Varners timeline Jesus began His ministry the same time He was crucified according to Daniel!

The text says the Messiah will be killed after the 69 weeks.
It does not say the Messiah will be killed on the day after the 69 weeks ends.
You are making that assumption to make your doctrine work.


.
 
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BABerean2

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And the best you have done to finish the 490 years is to give us an approximate by Paul going out to the gentiles!

I have shown that Daniel 9:24 is fulfilled in Acts of the Apostles 10:38, and Hebrews 10:16-18. What more is needed to show that the angel Gabriel was referring to the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27?

Your attempts to ignore the fact that Christ fulfilled the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, reveals the error of your Two Peoples of God doctrine.



What does a Hebrew scholar say below about the passage?


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BABerean2

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When did I ever say that the Jews would ever come to salvation outside of Christ?

The followers of Christ are a part of His Church found below.

Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

You are playing word games to make your doctrine work.
A person cannot come to faith in Christ, without being a part of His Church.
See also Revelation 12:11.

.
 
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jgr

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You were given your evidence which you have rejected. It is found in the following:


"What! have we supplanted the Jews? No, but we are said to be their supplanters, for that for our sakes they were supplanted...The time will come, the end of the world will come, and all Israel shall believe; not they who now are, but their children who shall then be."


Augustine did not believe the Church to be a supplanter of the nation of Israel and that if the Church was a supplanter, it was only in the temporal sense since he believed that Israel would eventually repent. Despite your insistence that he did not believe in a national restoration, Augustine, at least as far as the cited quote is concerned, never said anything to suggest that he did not believe that.

Where does "nation" or "restor" appear in that quote, or anywhere else in connection with Israel in Augustine's writings?
 
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Where does "nation" or "restor" appear in that quote, or anywhere else in connection with Israel in Augustine's writings?


The implications of such ought to be clear.
 
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jgr

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The followers of Christ are a part of His Church found below.

Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

You are playing word games to make your doctrine work.
A person cannot come to faith in Christ, without being a part of His Church.
See also Revelation 12:11.

.


You are the on who is playing word games. When did I ever say that the Jews could ever be saved apart from Christ?
 
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What and where are those implications?


That the Church was believed only to be Israel's replacement temporarily and that Augustine, though acknowledging the view of the day, may not have necessarily fully committed himself to the belief that the Church replaced Israel, and that he believed in the future salvation of Israel ought to be enough to imply that he also believed in Israel's full restoration of a nation. He gave no indication to the contrary.
 
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jgr

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"may be said" is not the same as "was said." He said it was possible, but that does not mean that there was any definitive proof that the Jesuits were the originators of the basis for modern Dispensationalist theology.

Where did he say it was possible?

Quote please.

You don't believe the Wikipedia article?
 
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jgr

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That the Church was believed only to be Israel's replacement temporarily and that Augustine, though acknowledging the view of the day, may not have necessarily fully committed himself to the belief that the Church replaced Israel, and that he believed in the future salvation of Israel ought to be enough to imply that he also believed in Israel's full restoration of a nation. He gave no indication to the contrary.

If it "ought to be enough to imply" your argument, then its absence equally "ought to be enough to imply" mine.
 
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Where did he say it was possible?

Quote please.

You don't believe the Wikipedia article?


I will admit that I have not gotten a chance to read the Wikipedia article yet, but I do know that depending on what you are seeking to look up, Wikipedia is not always the most trustworthy source to consult and while I do not mind using it as a starting point, it is best to verify the claims of what is posted there by consulting the sources they provide, that is, as often as they provide them. Wikipedia I take with a grain of salt in many cases and besides, the discussion is around the Larkin source, not the Wikipedia sources.
 
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If it "ought to be enough to imply" your argument, then its absence equally "ought to be enough to imply" mine.


Take into account that Augustine did not necessarily commit himself to replacement theology of any sort: "What! have we supplanted the Jews? No...
 
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jgr

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I will admit that I have not gotten a chance to read the Wikipedia article yet, but I do know that depending on what you are seeking to look up, Wikipedia is not always the most trustworthy source to consult and while I do not mind using it as a starting point, it is best to verify the claims of what is posted there by consulting the sources they provide, that is, as often as they provide them. Wikipedia I take with a grain of salt in many cases and besides, the discussion is around the Larkin source, not the Wikipedia sources.

Wikipedia and Larkin are consistent with one another.
 
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jgr

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Take into account that Augustine did not necessarily commit himself to replacement theology of any sort: "What! have we supplanted the Jews? No...

The patriarchs, then, are these three, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. You know that the sons of Jacob were twelve, and thence the people Israel; for Jacob himself is Israel, and the people Israel in twelve tribes pertaining to the twelve sons of Israel. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob three fathers, and one people. The fathers three, as it were in the beginning of the people; three fathers in whom the people was figured: and the former people itself the present people. For in the Jewish people was figured the Christian people. There a figure, here the truth; there a shadow, here the body: as the apostle says, “Now these things happened to them in a figure.”
Augustine, Homilies on the Gospel of John

Augustine uses the Scriptural adjectives "figure" and "shadow" to describe OT Israel, and "truth" and "body" to describe NT Christians.

If Augustine believed in a national restoration of Israel, what Scriptural adjectives would he use to describe it?
 
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The patriarchs, then, are these three, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. You know that the sons of Jacob were twelve, and thence the people Israel; for Jacob himself is Israel, and the people Israel in twelve tribes pertaining to the twelve sons of Israel. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob three fathers, and one people. The fathers three, as it were in the beginning of the people; three fathers in whom the people was figured: and the former people itself the present people. For in the Jewish people was figured the Christian people. There a figure, here the truth; there a shadow, here the body: as the apostle says, “Now these things happened to them in a figure.”
Augustine, Homilies on the Gospel of John

Augustine uses the Scriptural adjectives "figure" and "shadow" to describe OT Israel, and "truth" and "body" to describe NT Christians.

If Augustine believed in a national restoration of Israel, what Scriptural adjectives would he use to describe it?


Drawn up analogies and illustrations do not necessarily mean that he did not believe in a literal eventual restoration of Israel. In spite all this, he believed that Israel had been chosen of God to be His representative nation which is why he may not have committed himself to replacement theology unlike many others in hi sday. In putting the two citations together, worst case scenario would be that he was not consistent in his eschatology or his views regarding Israel.
 
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Wikipedia and Larkin are consistent with one another.


What Larkin describes in theory, Wikipedia declares as fact. They are not consistent with one another in that regards and the description of Ribera's Eschatology does not entirely reflect that of most Dispensationalists today, nor did it necessarily reflect that of the second century church fathers.
 
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