• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

The True Gospel (Believe in, be Saved through, and Follow Christ..)

Discussion in 'Traditional Adventists' started by reddogs, Dec 5, 2007.

  1. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

    +248
    SDA
    Married
    US-Others
    Romans 1

    1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— 2the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures 3regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, 4and who through the Spirit[a] of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God[b] by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5Through him and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith. 6And you also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ.


    Many today preach a partial side of the Gospel, they preach "Believe, only believe. Have faith in Christ; you only need to believe in Christ. But forget obedience, dont follow anything Christ says.." That is not true belief, as even the demons believe (know about) in Jesus, but Paul is talking about believing (accepting) in Christ which is incorparating Christ into our lives. This means obedience (following) that comes from faith, which is way past the basic outlines of the Law, in which the Spirit guides us. That means those things which Christ preached and asked us to follow are part of our lives. Righteousness through work of the Holy Spirit that surpasses even those who know the Law in its every intricacy and cognitive content..

    Matthew 5:20
    For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.



    If you hear someone preach on faith and tell you to believe, but dont turn from sin or makes you reject the Spirit which Christ sends which makes us dead to sin, how can you have Christ in you and you in Christ. How different is this from the words of the apostle who declares that faith without works is dead. He says, "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves" (James 1:22).

    "..We must have that faith that works by love and purifies the soul. Many seek to substitute a superficial faith for uprightness of life and think through this to obtain salvation.

    The Lord requires at this time just what He required of Adam in Eden--perfect obedience to the law of God. We must have righteousness without a flaw, without a blemish. God gave His Son to die for the world, but He did not die to repeal the law which was holy and just and good. The sacrifice of Christ on Calvary is an unanswerable argument showing the immutability of the law. Its penalty was felt by the Son of God in behalf of guilty man, that through His merits the sinner might obtain the virtue of His spotless character by faith in His name.

    The sinner was provided with a second opportunity to keep the law of God in the strength of his divine Redeemer. The cross of Calvary forever condemns the idea that Satan has placed before the Christian world, that the death of Christ abolished not only the typical system of sacrifices and ceremonies but the unchangeable law of God, the foundation of His throne, the transcript of His character.

    Through every device possible Satan has sought to make of none effect the sacrifice of the Son of God, to render His expiation useless and His mission a failure. He has claimed that the death of Christ made obedience to the law unnecessary and permitted the sinner to come into favour with a holy God without forsaking his sin. He has declared that the Old Testament standard was lowered in the gospel and that men can come to Christ, not to be saved from their sins but in their sins.
    But when John beheld Jesus he told His mission. He said, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" (John 1:29). To every repentant soul the message is, "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool" (Isaiah 1:18)...." ..EGW in SIGNS OF THE TIMES, MAY 19, 1890 .

    The true gospel, is believe in Christ, be saved in Christ, and let Christ take away your sin as He changes your life by the Spirit which not only cleanses you from sin but sanctifies and brings you closer to Christ as you follow him in your life.
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. digdeep

    digdeep Regular Member

    202
    +6
    SDA
    Married
    The Gospel is the GOOD NEWS of salvation for all mankind made sure by Jesus life and death.

    "I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith." romans 1:16,17

    This is the only righteousness that saves. It is the only righteousness that exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees. It is a righteousness that is entirely of God's doing without any human contribution whatsoever.
    "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law." Romans 3:28

    In Christ all believers stands perfect and complete before God and His holy law.
    "because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy" Heb 10:14

    and it is ONLY by believing this good news that the fruit of obedience will happen in the life.

    "For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature,God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man,in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit." Romans 8:3,4

    sin has been condemned. your sin has been completely forgiven. Believe this good news and the Holy Spirit will live in you and transform you into the image of God's Son.

    DD
     
  3. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

    +248
    SDA
    Married
    US-Others
    I wish I could write so clearly, but the point most miss is that the true gospel results in us following Christ as those "who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit." The mind of sin is transformed and we through the Spirit become dead to sin and ungodly desire......

    If not, we remain in the domain of sin, in the lair of evil, in the company of the ungodly, sharing the doom of the godless...

    The sin and doom of Godless men

    3Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. 4For certain men whose condemnation was written about[b] long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

    5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord[c] delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
    8In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings. 9But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" 10Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.
    11Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam's error; they have been destroyed in Korah's rebellion.
    12These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. 13They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. 14Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones 15to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him." 16These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. Jude 1:3-16
     
  4. digdeep

    digdeep Regular Member

    202
    +6
    SDA
    Married


    Amen!
    Ellen White says it best in Steps to Christ page 62,63.

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The condition of eternal life is now just what it always has been,--just what it was in Paradise before the fall of our first parents,--perfect obedience to the law of God, perfect righteousness. If eternal life were granted on any condition short of this, then the happiness of the whole universe would be imperiled. The way would be open for sin, with all its train of woe and misery, to be immortalized. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It was possible for Adam, before the fall, to form a righteous character by obedience to God's law. But he failed to do this, and because of his sin our natures are fallen and we cannot make ourselves righteous. Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God. But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness. If you give yourself to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then, sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous. Christ's character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned. [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]More than this, Christ changes the heart. He abides in your heart by faith. You are to maintain this connection with Christ by faith and the continual surrender of your will to Him; and so long as you do this, He will work in you to will and to do [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]63[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]according to His good pleasure. So you may say, "The life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20. So Jesus said to His disciples, "It is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you." Matthew 10:20. Then with Christ working in you, you will manifest the same spirit and do the same good works --works of righteousness, obedience."[/FONT]

    DD
     
  5. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

    +1,196
    United States
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Democrat


    Correct me if I'm wrong,
    According to the text you posted above "Obedience" that come from faith" , is in believing the gospel He promised beforehand, in which Paul was called and set apart to preach.
    You seem to overlook that Paul declares the Gospel in those same text by saying... Jesus the Son of God was resurrected from the dead and He is Lord"

    So a question for you is what is the "TRUE GOSPEL" we should have obedience to and where can we find it written?

    In peace
    CRIB
     
  6. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

    +248
    SDA
    Married
    US-Others

    Believing in, being Saved though, and following Christ, all through faith..

    ...and from there the Spirit guides us in into all truth which Christ and the Father gave us and leads us in "Obedience" that comes from faith"...


    1. John 14:17
      Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
      John 14:16-18 (in Context) John 14 (Whole Chapter)
    2. John 15:26
      But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
      John 15:25-27 (in Context) John 15 (Whole Chapter)
    3. John 16:13
      Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
      John 16:12-14 (in Context) John 16 (Whole Chapter)
     
  7. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

    +1,196
    United States
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Democrat
    Please allow me to seperate your OP for discussion sake.......



    Honestly
    It is my heart to be in agreement with all christians, but I am compelled by my spirit to try and rescue the doctrines of the word. (forgive me, I'm not perfect, nor I am always right.)

    So far, in part 1 "Obedience", now in part 2 you're discussing "works",....

    :scratch: I think you're saying...If some just says to you..believe and be saved" rather than, "believe, repent and be saved, then Christ cannot enter an unrepented sinner........If that's what you're saying.....I'm in agreement.:bow: Repentance is a vital component of salvation.
    The reason that you dont hear that preached is a valid argument. (I can give my opinion but I want to first reply to your OP.)

    What? compare matt 5:20 and James 1:22?

    "surpassing righteosness"( Matthew 5:20 )is not "more works". It is being more accurate to follow God's word and will. The Pharasees were micromanaging the law to thier own advantage, Christ called them wicked and blind guides.

    In James, the works He speaks of is an "active faith" vs a dead do nothing faith( lip service).
    The acts of faith is upon what God has said.

    For example, Rahab is mentioned in Hebrews 11 (the hall of faith) for believing the Hebrew God over her people's God. Her action ("works") were to hide spies, and lie to the soldiers sent to find them.
    Yes, faith should cause us to act on God's word, but you cant do what God requires of others.;)

    Hmmm, faith simplified is believing...............

    :doh: Where are you getting those quotes? They contradict scripture.


    Got any text as backup before I comment further?
    on this last statement in red

    In peace
    CRIB
     
  8. djconklin

    djconklin Moderate SDA

    +19
    Protestant
    Single
    Which quote contradicts which Scripture?
     
  9. djconklin

    djconklin Moderate SDA

    +19
    Protestant
    Single
    Amen! So much for SDA's not being allowed to preach the Gospel! Heavens that's what EGW did all her life! Another myth cast to the ground!
     
  10. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

    +1,196
    United States
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Democrat
    This quote;
    The Lord requires at this time just what He required of Adam in Eden--perfect obedience to the law of God.


    Contradicts this scripture
    Rom 5:13 -sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.

    Red implied that Adam was given a Law in Eden
    This text above teaches that "before The Law was given, there was no law."

    The wisdom taken from Rom 5 is Commandments are not necessarily Laws but laws can be commandments.

    God gave Adam "commandments" because first of all, Laws are given to govern a people, a nation, the world, etc, but never a few people or less.
    Commandments are for individuals, a people, a world, etc.

    Adam trangressed a commandment not a law

    Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

    ------------------------------------------------------
    MORE INSIGHT ABOUT LAWS AND COMMANDMENTS
    (follow the color codes to see laws and commandments)

    The truth about laws and commandments given to Abraham

    Gen 26:5Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

    Gen 12:1Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
    (Commandment to a person to leave his father and country)
    Gen 22:2And he said, Take now thy son, thine only [son] Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
    ( Commandment to a man to offer his son for an offering)


    Gen 17:10This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

    (This is both a commandment and law )

    Gen 17:11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

    Gen 17:12And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which [is] not of thy seed.
    (The Law for strangers is considered another law)
    Gen 17:13He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

    Gen 17:14And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.



    CRIB
     
  11. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

    +248
    SDA
    Married
    US-Others
    Gods love was before the world was created and this is where His law comes from, it wasnt needed to be outlined as the law because man had not sinned, so His love was before the world and endures forever.

    Adam transgressed by seperating himself from Godand His love, from where His law of love comes from..

    When through the Holy Spirit we go beyound the law, surpassing that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, we are following obedience that comes from faith.
     
  12. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

    +1,196
    United States
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Democrat
    True but, the real truth is about a Holy God and man, who was created in the image of God, which is Holiness, righteousness, love, dominion and other personal qualities.
    Adam miss the mark of righteousness when he ate from the tree that God commanded him not to eat from. He transgressed God's commandment.

    Cain missed the mark when He sinned. God gave us a play by play of Cain's actions which caused him to kill his brother. God said, "if you had done your best...SIN would not want to rush out of you". God did NOT say "you sinned by bringing the wrong sacrifice.
    So, God explained in details why sin was at Cain's front door. God continued his warning to Cain; "SIN wants to rule over you but you should rule over SIN"

    These biblical truths are contrary to questionable commentary that says that Cain had already sinned.


    Gen 4:5But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

    Gen 4:6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

    Gen 4:7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

    Gen 4:8And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

    CRIB


    PS.....Can you please show scripture why Adam's transgression was seperation from God?
     
  13. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

    +248
    SDA
    Married
    US-Others
    Show me sin that doesnt seperate us from God, why would Adam hide from God... it had caused a breach, a seperation between them...
     
  14. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

    +1,196
    United States
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Democrat
    Let's act grownup and try answer each others question without taking offense.

    I love you, I am not your enemy.....I'm just trying to prove what the bible teaches vs statements you're making.

    I did not say that Adam's sin was actually seperation from God. YOU DID!
    My understanding is that after Adam sinned he was seperated from God. God did not caused the seperation, SIN cause it, or God would be a hypocrite to ask "Where art thou?" So Adam moved his membership to the darkside where "death" welcomed him.;) Gen 2:17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    To directly answer your question; Because God is Holy, another attribute of God is, "God is light," this means there is no darkness at all in God.
    When Adam sinned, he was translated from where God had placed him in the garden. God said "where at thou?" because Adam stepped into the dark side.


    let God's word be true and let it prove every man as a liar.

    love
    CRIB
     
  15. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

    +248
    SDA
    Married
    US-Others
    I saw this "PS.....Can you please show scripture why Adam's transgression was seperation from God?"

    What question are you asking then, I missed it....:scratch:
     
  16. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

    +1,196
    United States
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Democrat
    Red you said.......


    An this is why I asked;

    Can you please show scripture why Adam's transgression was seperation from God?"

    Yep...that was my question:D

    CRIB
     
  17. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

    +248
    SDA
    Married
    US-Others
    I didnt want to put half of the Bible, so just went into how Adam and Eve hid from God, just a little tip of the iceberg...:)
     
  18. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

    +1,196
    United States
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Democrat
    :scratch: What exactly do you do you mean?

    In peace and love

    CRIB
     
  19. reddogs

    reddogs Contributor Supporter

    +248
    SDA
    Married
    US-Others
    God talked with Adam and let him know what His will was, the Sabbath and all the things Adam needed to know in the Garden to be able to have a loving relationship with God and with Eve, thats why they are recorded. So the commandments were out of Gods love at the Garden, with the understanding of them passed from generation to generation so that man knew what God wanted. God made clear to man from love what kept man from sin or seperation from God, and Enoch and others were able to be upright and true to God as they were able to get it from the generations that knew Adam directly or knew who Adam was and the fall of man.

    But by the time of Moses, just telling them it came from Adam didnt hold much weight with man, so God with His own hand wrote down the basics for loving God and your fellowman...but it has always been from Gods love for us to keep us from transgression and seperation which leads to eternal death, the wages of sin.....
     
  20. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

    +1,196
    United States
    Pentecostal
    Married
    US-Democrat
    Red, The fact that Moses who wrote Genesis account of creation 2000yrs after....... He wrote "God rested on the seventh day", Gen2:1-3 teaches that God's rest is a cease, an end of working, not a break from working, as is given to man later. Moses did not imply that sabbath was given to man before it was given through his hand according to Ex16.

    Also God explains To whom and when He gave His sabbaths. Eze 20:12Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them. If He had given it before, why would He give it again?...and to only one people?:scratch:

    Man, you get so far away from the scriptures, it's hard to be in agreement with you.:doh:


    But I still love you man
    stay possitive.
    CRIB
     
Loading...