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Discussion in 'General Theology' started by EastCoastRemnant, Feb 17, 2016.

  1. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    There has been a lot of talk on these forums as to who/what constitutes the true Church of Christ... some say the mother Church because of her age and supposed apostolic connection. Others say God's people, wherever they are found. Some say the Protestants, the Orthodox, the Catholic, the Mormons (actually, not many say this).

    So, this got me to thinking about what God's church would look like in terms of it's "appearance" or the impression it gives. If Christ's life and the lives of the apostles are our examples, lets see how we measure up...

    I know it has bothered me for a while now, ministers that wear expensive business suits with nice watches and other bling.. What does that mode of dress represent to me about Christ's character and ministry? I have noticed that in churches where the pastor is a fashion horse, the congregation seems to be concerned with their appearance as well. Is this the message that should be conveyed?

    Then there is the robes/gowns/collars etc, worn by some denom's clergy... while this better differentiates the laity from the officers of the church, is this what Jesus and the disciples gave by way of example? Is this an attempt to copy the religious garments that the Jewish priests were commanded to wear? The garments that Christ now wears as High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary? Are we saying that Christ's priesthood is not sufficient and must be replicated on earth. What about the admonition that we (men) are priests of our homes? Are we expected to wear special clothing for this role? Where does the pomp and pageantry of some churches come from? Did Jesus teach us these things?

    What are some of your thoughts on the way we present our "men of God" and our method of worship? Is it acceptable to wear everyday clothes to worship God or do we have to participate in the fashion show at church?
     
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  2. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member

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    Against the SDA dress code of course....
    My pastor, Life Community Church, wear jeans and a button down shirt that is rarely tucked in....yet he preaches the message of God....Any problems with that?
    I will refer you to the above response......rather than wasting my time otherwise....
    Is your belief so shallow that it rests on how people dress?
     
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  3. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    Nope... I have reproofed Adventist pastors for their appearance if it doesn't fit in with the humble, lowly example of Christ.

    Why would I have a problem with that? I am genuinely trying to have a conversation on this subject and not to 'corral' the conversation in a particular direction. I actually would more agree with you pastors choice.

    Feeling a little hostile are we? I am merely trying to gauge whether or not there are others that see the "costumes" worn by the clergy today as in keeping with the message of Christ?
     
  4. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    My reaction, for what that's worth, is that we need to keep straight, and separate from each other --

    1) what the church of Christ is, and

    2) how it's doing.

    ;)
     
  5. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member

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    Not feeling hostile at all....but "costumes".....really? If POTUS came to your church, in a suit, to say some words ....would you consider that a costume?....If I showed up in your church in my dress greens (even tho they don't fit any more) to give a message, would that be a costume?
     
  6. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Then I'll have to cast my vote with "yes." I see nothing wrong with wearing special attire for special occasions of special solemnity or seriousness. We do it all the time in non-religious matters, so why wouldn't we do so with spiritual ones?

    BTW, I think there's room for discussing the pros and cons of some particular attire, but not just that ministers in church wear something other than what they'd wear when heading out to Walmart.
     
  7. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    I wasn't trying to infer a negative connotation with the word "costume" but was just a catch all phrase for the different 'special' clothing worn by the clergy.
    If you think I am focusing on any particular denom, I'm not... Adventist pastors that wear $1000 suits and beautiful (re: expensive) silk ties don't give me the impression of the humbleness of Christ.
     
  8. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    Is that why maybe Jesus was rejected by the Jews because He did not conform to what people thought their Messiah should look and act like?
     
  9. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member

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    Then you need to be more careful in your description of "costumes".....
     
  10. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member

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    And exactly what did the "people" think their Messiah should look and act like?
     
  11. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    It did sound as though you were offended by certain types of clerical attire, but 'no' I, for one, didn't take it that you had any particular denomination in mind.

    By the way, however, one reason that the more ceremonial churches (Catholic, Episcopal, Orthodox, Methodist, etc) feature priests who wear certain robes or gowns is precisely and historically so that they will NOT be looking better dressed than the members of the congregation or worldly. Not every garment falls into this category, but some of the basic white or black ones that everyone is familiar with do.
     
  12. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Huh?

    Actually, Jesus WAS better dressed than the people he moved among. At least, that's what the Bible tells us.
     
  13. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    We all have our "costumes" in life... military have theirs, Dr's and healthcare workers have theirs, construction workers have theirs.. etc.

    I would expect the military to dress as such when acting in that role just as I would expect to see a Dr. in the hospital to wear his lab coat with stethoscope... I would not expect a man in an expensive suit to tell me he is acting in his military role... I would not expect a woman dressed in an evening gown to attend to me in a hospital setting... I would not expect a man to show me of the humbleness and teachings of Jesus dressed as a rich businessman... kind of gives a confusing message, don't ya think?
     
  14. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    So, let's be clear. Your concern is with the TV evangelist types who wear street clothes -- what we call business attire -- during worship and elsewhere, and you're not thinking of vestments. Is that correct?
     
  15. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member

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    And this made no sense at alll.....
     
  16. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    Never heard that... could you point me to where it says that please? I know his under layer or tunic was apparently special as the soldiers didn't want to divide it. I thought the Bible portrayed Jesus as not comely, someone that wouldn't be desired?
     
  17. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member

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    and this still makes no sense at all....
     
  18. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant I Must Decrease That He May Increase Supporter

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    No, I'm referring to all of it, not defending or exalting one above another.. just the whole trying to look good on the outside but for who's benefit? God could care less, He looks on our hearts, so why the need to "dress up" to be part of a church?
     
  19. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Comely would refer to being handsome. Anyway, you're right that the soldiers threw lots for his seamless garment and it's usually thought that this was because it was better quality than most of the outerwear the ordinary people of that time wore.
     
  20. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member

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    I agree....otherwise who would care if it was homespune........
     
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