The Trouble with Tribbers

Anto9us

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 10, 2013
5,089
2,040
Texas
✟95,745.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Thanks MournfulWatcher -- Title is based on a title to one of the original Star Trek episodes:

"The Trouble with Tribbles"

Tribbles were small furry creatures who multiplied prolifically;
almost took over the Enterprise

but now I realize that there are some PostTribbers who do NOT believe in a GAP;
so I guess I don't have trouble with those kind of tribbers
 
Upvote 0

Daniel Martinovich

Friend
Supporter
Oct 7, 2011
1,982
591
Southwest USA
Visit site
✟487,316.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
There are so many troubles with pre-trib the idea should be classified as criminal.
Buwahhaha. It will be some day! As it stands right now it has robbed three generations of Christians of a scriptural vision for the future. One that coincides with well over a hundred chapters of (non end time prophecies) that apply to this age. The penalty for the crime though will not manifest now while there is such darkness in the land over it. Only when the light breaks forth and people stubbornly hold on to their error will divine judgment break forth in the form of a penalty for a crime. Right now we are just reaping what we a are sowing. Which is basically manifesting in a very motivated and radical minority of the wicked are ruling over us. Because believer simply don't know their duty and calling to overcome them spiritually and politically.
 
Upvote 0

Daniel Martinovich

Friend
Supporter
Oct 7, 2011
1,982
591
Southwest USA
Visit site
✟487,316.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I'm post trib and I don't accept Daniel's 70th week.

Why would the prophecy of “seventy weeks indicate anything but 70 sequential weeks? Why would this biblical time period start, then stop at what the experts call a 'gap,' and then start up again some 2000 years later? If that's the case then the week following the 69th week really isn't the 70th week since there's a 2000 year gap! The passage doesn't mention anything about tribulation, an anti-Christ, or the rebuilding of a temple, or animal sacrifices. The passage in verse 25 and 26 speak about the Messiah. So grammatically speaking it makes no sense that verse 27 would suddenly completely change into speaking about the anti-Christ. The Messiah being “cut off" is referring to Christ’s death.
Why indeed. Especially since it came to pass exactly as it said. When he messiah came the city and sanctuary were destroyed. But just like the religious folk of Jesus' day expected the Messiah to ride in on a white horse and deliver them from the Romans and set up a physical visible kingdom on earth. The religious folk today are still waiting for that white horse and physical visible kingdom. So.....there has to be a gap. Just has to.
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Real intelligent answer, of course you can overcome my points of emphasis so why even try, kudos.

From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

...........................................

Daniel 9:27

Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.


And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

......................................................................

Who Confirmed The Covenant?
James Lloyd
http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023

No Gaps.

.
 
Upvote 0

Daniel Martinovich

Friend
Supporter
Oct 7, 2011
1,982
591
Southwest USA
Visit site
✟487,316.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Buwahhaha. It will be some day! As it stands right now it has robbed three generations of Christians of a scriptural vision for the future. One that coincides with well over a hundred chapters of (non end time prophecies) that apply to this age. The penalty for the crime though will not manifest now while there is such darkness in the land over it. Only when the light breaks forth and people stubbornly hold on to their error will divine judgment break forth in the form of a penalty for a crime. Right now we are just reaping what we a are sowing. Which is basically manifesting in a very motivated and radical minority of the wicked are ruling over us. Because believers simply don't know their duty and calling to overcome them spiritually and politically.
 
Upvote 0

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,601
2,106
Texas
✟196,410.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

All post-trib proponents do not believe in a gap.


And you know this alleged fact----how? I'm a post-trib proponent and believe there is a gap between the 69th and 70th week. But I thought you indicated ALL, which would have to include me, do not believe in a gap? I've ran across numerous post tribbers who believe in a gap between the 69th and 70th week. So why are you speaking for everyone, as if what you're saying is supposed to be factual? Had you only said some rather than all, probably wouldn't have bothered trying to dispute it since I would agree with that.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Anto9us

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 10, 2013
5,089
2,040
Texas
✟95,745.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Sorry, David PT; Perhaps I should have worded it :

NOT all post-trib proponents believe in a gap

or

not 100% of post-tribbers believe in a gap

or

some post-tribbers believe in a gap, some don't

is that better?

And I know this because of what posters on boards tell me
 
Upvote 0

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,601
2,106
Texas
✟196,410.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Sorry, David PT; Perhaps I should have worded it :

NOT all post-trib proponents believe in a gap

or

not 100% of post-tribbers believe in a gap

or

some post-tribbers believe in a gap, some don't

is that better?

And I know this because of what posters on boards tell me


I can live with that. Let's just forget it after that, no big deal anymore.


Me, I'm post trib Premil, yet I believe the 70th week is yet to occur. Unlike Pretribbers for instance, I don't see it being about ethnic Jews and a literal temple in Jerusalem. I pretty much think this has to do with the church at the end of this age. According to 2 Thess 2 it involves a temple. No reason the temple has to be a literal brick and mortar one though. I'm pretty certain in 2 Thess 2 Paul wasn't meaning a literal temple in Jerusalem. But if I am wrong about that, where anywhere in 2 Thess 2 is Jerusalem ever mentioned? Plus, there are other teachings by Paul when he used this same Greek word for temple, it is pretty obvious he wasn't meaning in a literal sense. So why mean in a literal sense in 2 Thess 2? Probably because it fits some folks' theories in regards to a literal temple at the end of this age, and not because Paul was meaning a literal temple..
 
Upvote 0

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,601
2,106
Texas
✟196,410.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Why would the prophecy of “seventy weeks indicate anything but 70 sequential weeks? Why would this biblical time period start, then stop at what the experts call a 'gap,' and then start up again some 2000 years later? If that's the case then the week following the 69th week really isn't the 70th week since there's a 2000 year gap!



That's some messed up reasoning if you think there are no exceptions to that. What if a person went to court for a crime, the judge then sentences him or her to 30 hours community service, where 3 hours a day, excluding weekends, has be fulfilled until 30 hours are finished? That's not 30 sequential hours, so going by your reasoning above, since there would be gaps, it isn't really 30 hours at all.

During a gap nothing is being counted towards. So it still makes it the 70th week no matter what. And why not? If the 70th week is basically a specified time where certain things are to occur during it, why does it matter if this specified time doesn't immediately follow the preceding 69 weeks?
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟783,467.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
That's some messed up reasoning if you think there are no exceptions to that. What if a person went to court for a crime, the judge then sentences him or her to 30 hours community service, where 3 hours a day, excluding weekends, has be fulfilled until 30 hours are finished? That's not 30 sequential hours, so going by your reasoning above, since there would be gaps, it isn't really 30 hours at all.

During a gap nothing is being counted towards. So it still makes it the 70th week no matter what. And why not? If the 70th week is basically a specified time where certain things are to occur during it, why does it matter if this specified time doesn't immediately follow the preceding 69 weeks?
Deuteronomy 18
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Your decapitated 70th week fails the test.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,601
2,106
Texas
✟196,410.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Deuteronomy 18
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Your decapitated 70th week fails the test.


I'm not seeing the connection here. As far as I can tell, the 70th week hasn't even begun yet. Kind of hard to conclude at this point it doesn't come to pass, if when it's supposed to come to pass, isn't even here yet.

When Jesus returns and that the 70th week never came to pass just prior to that, only then would it be safe to conclude some of us were wrong about the 70th week after all.

You're trying to put the cart before the horse. It would be like someone prophesying a certain thing will happen on a certain date, then another person telling them their alleged prophecy has failed, before this certain date even arrives. You wait for this certain date to come and go first, then you judge whether the prophecy failed or not.
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟783,467.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I'm not seeing the connection here. As far as I can tell, the 70th week hasn't even begun yet. Kind of hard to conclude at this point it doesn't come to pass, if when it's supposed to come to pass, isn't even here yet.

When Jesus returns and that the 70th week never came to pass just prior to that, only then would it be safe to conclude some of us were wrong about the 70th week after all.

You're trying to put the cart before the horse. It would be like someone prophesying a certain thing will happen on a certain date, then another person telling them their alleged prophecy has failed, before this certain date even arrives. You wait for this certain date to come and go first, then you judge whether the prophecy failed or not.
Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined...

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
determine
A primitive root; properly, to cut off, i.e. (figuratively) to decree -- determine.

How do you cut off at 70 if you've already cut off at 69?
 
Upvote 0

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,601
2,106
Texas
✟196,410.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Sorry, David PT; Perhaps I should have worded it :

NOT all post-trib proponents believe in a gap

or

not 100% of post-tribbers believe in a gap

or

some post-tribbers believe in a gap, some don't

is that better?

And I know this because of what posters on boards tell me



It just crossed my mind, but wasn't I responding to what another poster said, and not what you said? It was another poster, not you, that claimed all post tribbers do not believe in a gap. Looking at the OP again, I don't see where you were claiming all post tribbers don't believe in a gap, but seemed to be claiming the opposite, that post tribbers believe in a gap. Some do, some don't, but I think we cleared that up already.
 
Upvote 0

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,601
2,106
Texas
✟196,410.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined...

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
determine
A primitive root; properly, to cut off, i.e. (figuratively) to decree -- determine.

How do you cut off at 70 if you've already cut off at 69?


According to my Strong's, 2 entirely different Hebrew words are used in verse 24 and 26. The former, the Hebrew word chathak is used. The latter, the Hebrew word karath is used. How do you explain that?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Anto9us

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 10, 2013
5,089
2,040
Texas
✟95,745.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
we cleared it up already, yes, but i dunno if it was my statement or not you originally responded to

i had an awkwardly worded clause
"all posttribbers don't believe in a gap"
when I just meant that "not all post-tribbers do believe in a gap"
 
Upvote 0