The trinity - could somebody explain this to me?

[Reformationist]

The trinity states that each person in the Godhead is seperate. The trinity doctine also states that each person is God. So if each person is God and they are sperate, then they are three sperate Gods!
this is the falling away, like it or not. The falling away started in 325 ad.

Am I misunderstanding or are you purporting the heretical belief of polytheism?

God bless

 

[Ryft]

Like it or not people trinity states there are THREE gods. lets state the tirnity doctrine: One God that indwells in, (1) God the father- seperate person (2) God the son- seperate person (3) God the holy spirit- seperate person . . . The trinity states that each person in the Godhead is seperate. The trinity doctine also states that each person is God. So if each person is God and they are sperate, then they are three sperate Gods! this is the falling away, like it or not. The falling away started in 325 ad.

You proposed to "state the tirnity [sic] doctrine," and then proceeded to state something completely unrelated to the doctrine of the Trinity. Right off the bat, the trinitarian doctrine does not suggest that God "indwells" the Father, or the Son, or the Holy Spirit. If you are stating some sort of trinity doctrine, it's one that is entirely foreign to Christianity... and, consequently, of no concern to the internal consistency of Christian doctrines or its correspondence with Scripture.

Since we can now understand that your articulation of the doctrine bears no correspondence with Christianity at all, we can agree with you that such an articulation is indeed a 'falling away', and trinitarians would reprove and correct anyone that taught such an idea.

Again, as I said in a previous post, confusion like this results from thinking that God is a person.

 

[shawn_h76]

You proposed to "state the tirnity [sic] doctrine," and then proceeded to state something completely unrelated to the doctrine of the Trinity. Right off the bat, the trinitarian doctrine does not suggest that God "indwells" the Father, or the Son, or the Holy Spirit. If you are stating some sort of trinity doctrine, it's one that is entirely foreign to Christianity... and, consequently, of no concern to the internal consistency of Christian doctrines or its correspondence with Scripture.

Since we can now understand that your articulation of the doctrine bears no correspondence with Christianity at all, we can agree with you that such an articulation is indeed a 'falling away', and trinitarians would reprove and correct anyone that taught such an idea.

Again, as I said in a previous post, confusion like this results from thinking that God is a person.

oh please , big words wont save you today.

Trinity: that there are three persons in the Godhead—the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost—seperate and coequal in power and glory.

Trinity states that each "Person" is seperate and co equal in power and glory. In other words, each "person" in the Godhead is God.Making three seperate persons , co equal in power and glory, and each of them a seperate God.

1. God the father, (the father)- seperate person
2. God the son, (the son)- seperate person
3. God the holy ghost,(comforter)-seperate person

if there are three sperate begins, and each is called "God" then that makes them three gods. Anybody who has half a brain can see this.

my example: <<<<<Trinity
These three smiles(above) are three persons. They are seperate. Yet co equal in power and glory.

Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 44: 8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

my next example: <<<<<one God, our high preist Jesus Christ
The above is a smilie representing one God, our Lord Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Jesus is the king of isreal and the first and last.

mark15:2 And Pilate asked him[Jesus], Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto them, Thou sayest it.

Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

so is there one God or three gods?

isiah 44: 8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

 

[Asar'el]

oh please , big words wont save you today.

Trinity: that there are three persons in the Godhead—the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost—seperate and coequal in power and glory.

Trinity states that each "Person" is seperate and co equal in power and glory. In other words, each "person" in the Godhead is God.Making three seperate persons , co equal in power and glory, and each of them a seperate God.

1. God the father, (the father)- seperate person
2. God the son, (the son)- seperate person
3. God the holy ghost,(comforter)-seperate person

if there are three sperate begins, and each is called "God" then that makes them three gods. Anybody who has half a brain can see this.

my example: <<<<<Trinity
These three smiles(above) are three persons. They are seperate. Yet co equal in power and glory.

Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 44: 8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

my next example: <<<<<one God, our high preist Jesus Christ
The above is a smilie representing one God, our Lord Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Jesus is the king of isreal and the first and last.

mark15:2 And Pilate asked him[Jesus], Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto them, Thou sayest it.

Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

so is there one God or three gods?

isiah 44: 8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

You really should listen to what we say, rather than telling us what we think.


You do well up to 'in other words', since the other words are all yours... you present your misinterpretation, and proceed to tell us why it is wrong.


Your quotes have nothing to do with the subject at hand; and your formating of them does nothing to support your (mis)conceptions.


On the other hand, perhaps you're right, only someone with half a brain would see 'this', whatever you see 'this' as...

 

[Ryft]

oh please , big words wont save you today.

Perhaps they were 'big words' to somebody 'who has half a brain'. Words do not save; they express.

Making three seperate persons , co equal in power and glory, and each of them a seperate God.

1. God the father, (the father)- seperate person
2. God the son, (the son)- seperate person
3. God the holy ghost,(comforter)-seperate person

if there are three sperate begins, and each is called "God" then that makes them three gods. Anybody who has half a brain can see this.

[align=justify]Yes, that is a most excellent illustration of what I was talking about. Your articulation of the Trinity doctrine is that the Father is a God person, the Son is a God person, and the Holy Spirit is a God person—your problem with the Trinity doctrine originates with thinking that it regards God as a person, which is consistent with your theistic modalism. Nevertheless, it is a quixotic episode against a straw man argument that leaves Christianity and the doctrine of the trinity untouched. When you are finished, we'll be over here waiting with our actual beliefs. Like Asar'el aptly suggested, "You really should listen to what we say, rather than telling us what we think."[/align]

 

[Reformationist]

On the other hand, perhaps you're right, only someone with half a brain would see 'this', whatever you see 'this' as...

 

[shawn_h76]

Christianity and the doctrine of the trinity untouched. When you are finished, we'll be over here waiting with our actual beliefs. Like Asar'el aptly suggested, "You really should listen to what we say, rather than telling us what we think."[/align]

Hello Ryft,

I am sorry for telling you what to think, rather than listening to what you have to say. Yet this thread isnt a debate, but rather an explantion of the Trinity. Is the doctrine of Trinity bibical, or man-made? History has proved that man has worshipped more than one god. But if you, both Asar'el and Ryft, do support the Doctrine of trinity as true sound doctrine, can you please explain to me how you view the following 14 verses:

1. Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
   11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
2. Isaiah 43:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
3. Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
4. mark15:2 And Pilate asked him[Jesus], Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto them, Thou sayest it.
5. Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
6. Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
7. Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
   9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
8. 1 Timothy 316 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
9. Exodus 20
   1 And God spake all these words, saying,
   2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
   3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
10. Revelation 18"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." -Jesus Christ
11. revelation4:8Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings. Day and night they never stop saying: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come."
12. revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
    7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
    8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
13. John 8
    58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
14. Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Bonus question:
Also, please show me where Jesus said he was the thrid part of the trinity.


Again, I am sorry for telling you what to think, rather than listening to what you have to say. i would love to see how your veiw these 14 verses(above). Thank you.

 

[Bevlina]

I have a bit of difficulty with the trinity being known as the the One. That it was God Himself on the cross. It's hard to comprehend that Jesus prayed to God, he stated that He didn't know when the end would be and that only God knew the answer, He cried to His Father from the cross, and He never professed to be God Almighty Himself, then try to explain that He was, indeed God Almighty.
It has all been explained to me from the old and New Testament, but, I still have doubt
regarding the matter. There is no doubt whatsoever that Jesus was the Son of God. His only begotten Son. But, I have always felt there is something wrong there somewhere. It's a case of one and one does not make two to me.
Also,the original Greek parchments did not contain the words of John5:7
"and these three are one"
It states that they are in agreement.

I can understand...
God the Father
God the Son
God the holy Spirit

But not that they are One person. Does that make sense?

Sort of like...God is the Boss...Jesus is His Right Hand (the Word)...and the Holy Spirit does the work. Three different entities.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Shawn - your strawman version of the Trinity makes an illogical leap.

The Father is God
The Son is God
The Spirit is God.

Only if you understand this as:

the Father is God a
the Son is God b
the Spirit is God c.

does it posit three Gods. Since Trinitatrianism actually proposes that:

the Father is God 0
the Son is God 0
the Spirit is God 0, where God 0 is the one and only God,

there is no substance to your claim. Only one God is referenced.

The problem is the way the statements are arranged.

Try this:

A little help:

Pater - Father
Filius - Son
Sp(irit)us S(an)c(t)us - Holy Spirit
Est - Is
Non Est - Is not
Deus - God

 

[Emmy]

Dear Challenger,may I give one more explanation,how I see the Trinity.God is Spirit,Holy Spirit,He is everywhere at the same time.When He came to earth,as Man,born of woman,as we were,He was also Spirit,of God`s Spirit.After 33 years,He was crucified as the Man Jesus who died for us.After Jesus had risen,He told His disciples,that He was going back to the Father,but would send another in His place;the Holy Spirit,to be our Comforter,Friend and Teacher.God`s Holy Spirit is making God known in all the world,the Holy Spirit comes into our hearts to help us change ourselves more and more into children of God,as we once were.Sincere greetings from Emmy,a sister in Christ.

 

[klewlis]

You do well up to 'in other words', since the other words are all yours... you present your misinterpretation, and proceed to tell us why it is wrong.

I disagree that he did well up to "in other words". The first mistake is the initial premise: "Trinity: that there are three persons in the Godhead—the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost—seperate and coequal in power and glory."

It is an incomplete definition that says nothing of essence or unity, not to mention that it says the three are "separate". Of course we're going to get polytheism with a definition like that. But that is not how Trinity is historically defined.

 

[Bevlina]

Dear Challenger,may I give one more explanation,how I see the Trinity.God is Spirit,Holy Spirit,He is everywhere at the same time.When He came to earth,as Man,born of woman,as we were,He was also Spirit,of God`s Spirit.After 33 years,He was crucified as the Man Jesus who died for us.After Jesus had risen,He told His disciples,that He was going back to the Father,but would send another in His place;the Holy Spirit,to be our Comforter,Friend and Teacher.God`s Holy Spirit is making God known in all the world,the Holy Spirit comes into our hearts to help us change ourselves more and more into children of God,as we once were.Sincere greetings from Emmy,a sister in Christ.

This is what I mean in the inability to believe Jesus is the Almighty God. He stated He was going back to His Father. So...how can He BE the absolute Father if he was going back to Him? And now sits at His Right Hand?

 

[Asar'el]

I believe the Trinity is the only way to correctly understand all that the Scripture teaches; Bevlina is quite correct, above, to notice that there is a difference between the Father and the Son (in this particular instance). Other texts clearly show there is a difference between the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

However, the scripture is also clear that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. Not 'a god', or even 'a God' - there is only one God - the Almighty.

Jesus Christ, the Son, is not the Father (exactly). Nor is He the Holy Spirit (exactly). But... these three are one. Neither is a separate God (apart from the other two); but all Three are one substance - one essence - one being - one spirit.

Not one creature! Not one man! The physical body of Christ veiled Him for a time; but neither that body, nor His glorious, resurrected body, limits God to a physical shape or existence!

By no means can we, creatures, the handiwork of the infinite Creator ever comprehend ALL that God is - for then our comprehension would be greater than infinity! It is not required of us to understand HOW God can be Three and One; as it is not required (and indeed, impossible!) for us, finite beings, to fully and correctly understand infinity.

There is no absolute apart from God; truth least of all. Something is true because God declares it to be true;

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

The only true knowledge we can have is that which God reveals - especially so about God Himself! There is no doubt that there are three; there is no doubt there is only one. How can this be? As easily, when we speak of our God, as we may say He is everywhere present; all knowing; all powerful. God declared, when asked for His name 'I AM THAT I AM''. Like everything else of God, we need to accept His revelation of Himself.

A great more many things, concepts, ideas, questions are INAPPLICABLE to God; everything that is relevant to creature is irrelevant to Creator; there is no time with God; no beginning to Him; no end; the question 'Who or what was there before God?' is not applicable, because there is no 'before God'! This is not an easy concept for us in time to accept - because we naturally try to include (read, limit!) God to our concept of time. In the same fashion, when we consider the concept of the Trinity, the 'natural' inclination is to try and limit it to something we are more familiar with... but the best we can do (at least for now!) is to say that it is somewhat like something we can know - as long as we understand it is not exactly like anything we can know.

 

[Bevlina]

Very good post Asar'el!

 

[shawn_h76]

I believe the Trinity is the only way to correctly understand all that the Scripture teaches; Bevlina is quite correct, above, to notice that there is a difference between the Father and the Son (in this particular instance). Other texts clearly show there is a difference between the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

However, the scripture is also clear that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. Not 'a god', or even 'a God' - there is only one God - the Almighty.

Jesus Christ, the Son, is not the Father (exactly). Nor is He the Holy Spirit (exactly). But... these three are one. Neither is a separate God (apart from the other two); but all Three are one substance - one essence - one being - one spirit.

Not one creature! Not one man! The physical body of Christ veiled Him for a time; but neither that body, nor His glorious, resurrected body, limits God to a physical shape or existence!

By no means can we, creatures, the handiwork of the infinite Creator ever comprehend ALL that God is - for then our comprehension would be greater than infinity! It is not required of us to understand HOW God can be Three and One; as it is not required (and indeed, impossible!) for us, finite beings, to fully and correctly understand infinity.

There is no absolute apart from God; truth least of all. Something is true because God declares it to be true;

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

The only true knowledge we can have is that which God reveals - especially so about God Himself! There is no doubt that there are three; there is no doubt there is only one. How can this be? As easily, when we speak of our God, as we may say He is everywhere present; all knowing; all powerful. God declared, when asked for His name 'I AM THAT I AM''. Like everything else of God, we need to accept His revelation of Himself.

A great more many things, concepts, ideas, questions are INAPPLICABLE to God; everything that is relevant to creature is irrelevant to Creator; there is no time with God; no beginning to Him; no end; the question 'Who or what was there before God?' is not applicable, because there is no 'before God'! This is not an easy concept for us in time to accept - because we naturally try to include (read, limit!) God to our concept of time. In the same fashion, when we consider the concept of the Trinity, the 'natural' inclination is to try and limit it to something we are more familiar with... but the best we can do (at least for now!) is to say that it is somewhat like something we can know - as long as we understand it is not exactly like anything we can know.

You still didn't answer my question. http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=8593800&postcount=47
Your not trying to avoid my question, are you?

 

[Asar'el]

You still didn't answer my question. http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=8593800&postcount=47
Your not trying to avoid my question, are you?

You didn't have a question I could answer - to acknowledge your post as correct would have been to agree with you to begin with, which I do not. You proceed from false assumption, and ask us to defend your misconception.

Now, in the interests of peace, let me see what I can tell you about the texts you mention - understanding that this in no way gives validity to your misconception about what we believe about the Trinity. I am also going to include, where warranted, more of the surrounding text, for context.

Hello Ryft,

I am sorry for telling you what to think, rather than listening to what you have to say. Yet this thread isnt a debate, but rather an explantion of the Trinity. Is the doctrine of Trinity bibical, or man-made? History has proved that man has worshipped more than one god. But if you, both Asar'el and Ryft, do support the Doctrine of trinity as true sound doctrine, can you please explain to me how you view the following 14 verses:

Isaiah 43:9-11

Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

What problem do you see in these verses? God is our Saviour, as well as the saviour of Israel. There is only one God. In this particular text, God declares that the nation of Israel is His chosen servant, a witness to the rest of the nations.

The next verse is Isaiah 44:6, not 43:6 - but

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

God is King of Israel; God is Israel's redeemer; God is the LORD of hosts; God is the first; God is the last; and beside God there is no God. All something we agree with.
Isaiah 44:8

Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Once more, there is no God but our God.
Mark 15:2And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest it.

In case you don't know it, 'Thou sayest it' means 'yes'; the expression still exists in English - 'You said it!' Jesus, being God, can be properly addressed as King of Israel, or King of the Jews.Revelation 2:8

And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

What else is here but a declaration that Jesus Christ, being God, can be addressed as the first and the last?Isaiah 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

What would you like explained from this? Our God is the Creator?Colossians 2:8-9

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

God the Son is fully God, and is not missing anything.1 Timothy 3:16

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

This is indeed true. What of it do you need explained?Exodus 20:1-3
And God spake all these words, saying,
I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

We are to have no other gods before our God; literaly meaning, before God's face. Nor do we.
Revelation 1:8

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

You're right, Jesus Christ, being God, is declared as it says - the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, which is, was, and is to come, the Almighty. We agree with this entirely.
Revelation 4:8
And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

So, evidently, do those four beasts agree also...

Revelation 21:5-8

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Christ Jesus declared this when He was on Earth, and confirmed it unto His servant, John, in the text above. Once again, we agree with it.

John 8:57-59
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Christ Jesus declares His existence, before Abraham; and the Jews recognized that this was a declaration of His Godhead - which they did not believe, of course, and so they took up stones to kill Him.

Isaiah 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

This prophecy of the coming Messiah, Christ Jesus fulfilled. All those titles belong to God, and as Jesus Christ is God, they belong to Him.

Bonus question:
Also, please show me where Jesus said he was the thrid part of the trinity.

I don't see what questions you saw in the above verses... but regarding this 'bonus', you make it too easy

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Again, I am sorry for telling you what to think, rather than listening to what you have to say. i would love to see how your veiw these 14 verses(above). Thank you.

We do not teach, or preach, three Gods.

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

The great commission:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Can you still not see the Trinity?

 

[shawn_h76]

Then I guess we agree with eachother.

1. We both believe that there is only one God.
2. And we both believe that Jesus Christ is God Almighty.

Jesus Christ, who is God, is one then. And we should Love Jesus with all our heart, soul, and with all our might.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Jesus Christ, who is God, will not share his glory to anybody else.

Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Revelation 5
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

Jesus Christ who is God, is the great I AM THAT I AM.

Exodus 3
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

John 8
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Jesus Christ, who is God is the only Lord God.

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Jesus Christ, who is God, is the only saviour.

isiah43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Luke 2
10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

We should have no other Gods or gods beside Jesus.

Exodus 20
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Jesus Christ never said he was the thrid part of the trinity.

 

[Asar'el]

I clearly show you the Trinity, and you say 'we agree, it is not there'. What else can I conclude but that you need some eye salve, as Christ advises, from Him?

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

There are three; and these three are one. I'm not sure what you don't see - that there are three, or that the three are one? Is it not obvious that the three are different? Do you require some texts to show you the differences between the Father, the Son (the Word), and the Holy Ghost? Or do you not see that the three are one?

You cannot acknowledge Jesus Christ, the Son, and deny the Father, or the Holy Ghost; nor can you say that Jesus Christ is the Father, or that the Holy Ghost is the Son; I cannot see how anything other than the Trinity agrees with the word of God.

 

[JVAC]

Another way to look at it, (can't site who said it off the top of my head, but it was early church):

The Father is the one who anoints
The Son is the anointed
The Holy Spirit is the Unction.

(just thought I would toss that in)

-James

 

[HeatherJay]

Then I guess we agree with eachother.

1. We both believe that there is only one God.
2. And we both believe that Jesus Christ is God Almighty.

Jesus Christ, who is God, is one then. And we should Love Jesus with all our heart, soul, and with all our might.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Jesus Christ, who is God, will not share his glory to anybody else.

Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Revelation 5
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

Jesus Christ who is God, is the great I AM THAT I AM.

Exodus 3
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

John 8
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Jesus Christ, who is God is the only Lord God.

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Jesus Christ, who is God, is the only saviour.

isiah43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Luke 2
10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

We should have no other Gods or gods beside Jesus.

Exodus 20
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Jesus Christ never said he was the thrid part of the trinity.

I would agree with Asar'el. None of the verses sighted to be in opposition of the Trinity actually are in opposition of it.

Shawn, maybe you have more of a problem with the label 'Trinity' than you do the actual beliefs of Trinitarians? We're more alike that we are different, I believe.

Love, Heather