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Featured Non-Trinitarian The Trinity and Non-trinitarians

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Phoebe Ann, Apr 15, 2019.

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  1. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Did Ellen White believe in the trinity? Not one of the Adventist pioneers believed in the
    trinity. Her husband James White denounced the trinity as “unscriptural”. Why did Ellen White never correct her husband if she was a trinitarian? All of the pioneers of the early Seventh-day Adventist church were non-trinitarian and strangely enough she never reproved them of their beliefs and none of them reproved her or said she was teaching error. This is strange indeed. What did Ellen believe regarding the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit?
    Ellen White on the Trinity Doctrine

    What did she believe about God?
     
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  2. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What does it matter? Rather than continually go after their past, what is their error today? If being a Sabbath keeping vegetarian isn't a salvation issue, then why dig into the past? Just asking.... :)
     
  3. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    John N. Andrews, Seventh-day Adventist
    The doctrine of the Trinity which was established in the church by the council of Nice A. D. 325. This doctrine destroys the personality of God and his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. The infamous, measures by which it was forced upon the church which appear upon the pages of ecclesiastical history might well cause every believer in that doctrine to blush.” — (J.N. Andrews, Review and Herald, March 6, 1855)
    SDA Pioneers On The Trinity

    Was he another false teacher?
     
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  4. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Are you asking me? My answer is simple... it isn't my job to judge him. He is dead, he can't give an answer for the sound bite you have produced. If he were alive, there is a biblical protocol to follow that would allow us to try him... but we can't, he's dead. So my question stands... is there a modern teaching being pushed by the SDA's on others that is leading them away from Christ or that prevents themselves from walking in the light of Christ?
     
  5. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    If you aren't an Adventist, I'm not asking you. BTW, are you a Trinitarian?
     
  6. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That is so unscholarly. I asked a simple question... why indict and punish the dead? What do the CURRENT and LIVING SDA's do that harms the body of Messiah? If nothing... then why are you tearing into a group of Christ followers with stuff that is 150 years old?
     
  7. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    I tore into no one and I don't believe you set the rules for this site.
     
  8. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I asked a simple question... you can't or won't answer it for whatever reason(s) you have. I will leave you alone now.
     
  9. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Thank you.
     
  10. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    In 1931 the word trinity appeared in the Adventist statement of beliefs for the first time but it was not official. It was not for another 50 years before the trinity doctrine was officially accepted as being part of the doctrinal beliefs. It is interesting to see what was written in the Review about this issue shortly after its acceptance at the Dallas Convention in 1980.
    http://www.trinitytruth.org/isthetrinityinthebible.html
     
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  11. RichardY

    RichardY New Member

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    @Phoebe Ann
    I found listening to some of C.S Lewis stuff on Audible enlightening, I found "A Pilgrims Regress" interesting. In the UK you can get fairly cheap, down to about £3.99 a book if using the credits on a Gold or Platinum membership.

    Isaac Newton nearly got rejected from Trinity College Cambridge.... Funny really, was watching a YouTube video of someone lecturing at Cambridge University about Ontology(Being) said "don't think that I think that Panenthesim is actual, it is a mad idea."

    For the Trinity to be actual, Jesus Christ while would have had to been totally in sync with God. That in itself suggests a duality to me. Leibniz tries to explain why other people aren't in sync with God. "the answer is very simple, it is because he is a man." Leibniz tries to make out that a person sins a priori, by merely thinking sinful thoughts. Which is why they're not in sync with God. So much for the son of man. I did find Leibniz persuasive, but he lies. Was looking for a metaphysic that would help explain reality. C.S Lewis, takes the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] out of Leibniz towards the end of a "Pilgrim's Regress".

    Why more people don't follow the Trinity, if Christian. Fallen World. When I first began to seriously consider Christianity, though I did say Jesus Christ was basically God the almighty incarnate, Trinitarianism. I now think that's basically Idolatry, and was wrong to write that.

    The harvest is much, but the workers are few.
     
  12. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    I don't know what the gobbledygook in this thread is about, but I do find it incredibly interesting that the SDAs apparently accepted some form of Trinitarianism only in the 1980s. Better late than never (though some of what they write on that page is very non-standard/questionable -- "three personalities" is not as clear or acceptable as the phrasing used in the Nicene Creed, which is "persons"/hypostases, and the Athanasian Creed actually has nothing to do with St. Athanasius beyond the medieval attribution of it to the saint by the Latin-speaking Christians). I honestly don't know a lot about the SDA faith, even though I grew up in a small town with an SDA church directly across the street from my house (literally, you could wave to people in the parking lot of the church from our living room, if you wanted to). The people of that congregation were incredibly nice and they invited us to various functions at their church every year. I remember we went to one when I was a kid (baptized Presbyterian thanks to my practicing mainline Protestant mother), and it had a meal and some dessert, and there was some kind of teaching/preaching component to it, so we listened to it for a little while before deciding to leave, because mom realized that they were trying to convert us. Hahaha. I was maybe eight years old, so I was just there for the free ice cream, honestly. I don't remember any of what they actually said, but apparently some of it must've been objectionable to a Presbyterian. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
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  13. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    As defined by the Roman Catholic theology?,~ No, she didn't. Sister White knew of the inherent danger in using a word that was commonly associated with an erroneous definition.

    Do you know that that statement is incorrect. historically? Sister White began as a Methodist, and then joined the Millerite movement, and ultimately the Advent Movement in the Great Awakening, later formalized in a small group (1863) as the Seventh-day Adventist movement. Do you know what the statement of belief was then for the Methodists? It included statements about 'trinity', however, there was a correction of definition as she grew in understanding of her Bible, and God. The same would go for many others. For instance, though William Miller never officially became Seventh-day Adventist, he was a part of the Great Awakening movement, and yet he began as a Baptist, and they also have a statement of belief on regards 'trinity', to which as far as I can tell, he never gave up, even though it was not entirely correct definition. The protestants basically carried over a slightly damaged definition from Roman Catholicism.

    Dunkers (German First Day Baptist):

    “... "They hold to apostolic baptism - and administer triune immersion, with the laying on of hands and prayer while the recipient yet remains kneeling in the water. {February 12, 1857 UrSe, ARSH 114.2} ...” - Advent Review, and Sabbath Herald, vol. 9 February 12, 1857, page 114 par. 2 (Uriah Smith)

    William Miller:

    “... “ART. II. I believe in one living and true God, and that there are three persons in the Godhead, - as there is in man, the body, soul and spirit. And if any one will tell me how these exist, I will tell him how the three persons of the Triune God are connected.” MWM 77.5

    “ART. III. I believe that God, by his Son, created man in the image of the Triune God, with a body, soul and spirit; and that he was created a moral agent, capable of living, of obeying, or transgressing the laws of his Maker.” MWM 78.1 ...” - Memoirs of William Miller, p. 77.5 – 78.1; 1853 (Sylvester Bliss) & see also Sketches of the Christian Life and Public Labors of William Miller, p. 59.3 – 60.1; 1875 (James S. White)

    W. W. Prescott:

    “... But the fact that the Jesus of the New Testament is the Jehovah of the Old Testament must not be understood as eliminating the Father, or as a denial of the Godhead-Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Since the finite cannot comprehend the infinite, it were vain to attempt an analysis of the Godhead, or to liken the perfect union of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to a triumvirate of men or even of angels. Neither must we think of the three distinct persons of the Godhead as subject to any of the limitations to which men are subject. To Nicodemus the Saviour said, “No one hath ascended into heaven, but He that descended out of heaven, even the Son of man, who is in heaven.” John 3:13. SOTW 17.1 ...” - The Saviour of the World, p. 17.1; 1929 (William W. Prescott)

    Stephen N. Haskell (defined “triumvirate” as three men being of the same mind)

    “... This was the triumvirate. To find three men in Rome who would be of one mind, was as impossible as it would be to find such to-day; and shortly the triumvirs disappeared, and Rome became an empire. ...” - The Story of the Seer of Patmos, p. 227.3; 1905 (Stephen N. Haskell)

    There are other such persons to be named also, but I do not desire to make this part of the response too lengthy.
     
  14. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    James White denounced the 'definition' of the commonly held 'trinity' as "unscriptural", which definition included a three-headed hydra for God, a melding of the 3 Persons, which is "unscriptural".

    Notice:

    What many 'pioneers' fought in regards the word “trinity”, was not the word so much or per se, but/as the Roman Catholic definition of it “without body or parts”, “one substance”, “three one being”, etc. consider:

    J. B. F.:

    “... If it be said that the Spirit of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost is one Spirit, with this we all agree. But if it be said that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three persons in one person, making in all one God without body or parts, with an idea so inconsistent we cannot agree. ARSH March 12, 1857, p. 146.18

    The oneness of Christ with the Father may be plainly seen by any one who will refer to John 17:22. “That they (that believe) may be one, even as we are one.” Who could believe that Christ prayed that his disciples should be one disciple? Yet this would be no more inconsistent than the idea of some that Christ and his Father are one person. ARSH March 12, 1857, p. 146.19

    In accordance with the doctrine that three very and eternal Gods are but one God, how may we reconcile Matthew 3:16, 17. Jesus was baptized, Spirit of God descended like a dove, and the Father’s voice heard from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, etc. The Father in heaven, the Son on earth, the Spirit of God descending from one to the other. Who could ever suppose for a moment that these three were one person without body or parts, unless it was by early training. See other texts which appear equally absurd, if such doctrine be true. Matthew 28:18; Acts 10:38. “How God anointed Jesus with the Holy Ghost,” etc. First person takes the third person and anoints the second person with a person being at the same time one with himself. ARSH March 12, 1857, p. 146.20

    That three are one, and one are three,
    Is an idea that puzzles me
    ;
    By many a learned sage ‘tis said
    That three are one in the Godhead. ARSH March 12, 1857, p. 146.21

    The Father then may be the Son,
    For both together make but one;
    The Son may likewise be the Father,
    Without the smallest change of either. ARSH March 12, 1857, p. 146.22

    Yea, and the blessed Spirit be
    The Father, Son and trinity
    ;
    This is the creed of Christian folks,
    Who style themselves true orthodox,
    All which against plain common sense,
    We must believe or give offense.”
    J. B. F. ARSH March 12, 1857, p. 146.23 ...” - Advent Review, and Sabbath Herald, vol. 9 March 12, 1857, page 146 par. 20 (under Uriah Smith)

    R. F. C. [could be Roswell Fenner Cottrell, reporting on a “Disciple” meeting]:

    “... BRO. SMITH: Some weeks since, Bro. Wheeler preached a number of discourses at the Disciples’ house in Lancaster, Erie Co. N. Y., which had the effect to call forth an appointment from a Disciple preacher on the Sabbath question. At the time appointed I found myself at liberty to attend, but learned that the minister had preached his promised discourse a week previous to the time appointed. However, another preacher was present, and I remained to hear on another subject. ARSH November 19, 1857, p. 13.7

    The Disciples have, from their very first introduction in this part of the country, stoutly advocated the no-Sabbath doctrine. You may therefore conceive something of my surprise, when, at the close of their Sunday school, the minister gave out a hymn commencing: ARSH November 19, 1857, p. 13.8

    This day belongs to God alone,
    This day he chooses for his own;
    And we must neither work nor play,
    Because it is God’s holy day.” ARSH November 19, 1857, p. 13.9

    To hear those who have repeatedly affirmed that there was no holy time under the gospel dispensation, and could not be all over the habitable surface of this revolving globe, now teaching the young that Sunday is God’s holy day, might well produce astonishment. I could scarcely help wishing to revise the next verse, for their use, as follows: ARSH November 19, 1857, p. 13.10

    ‘Tis well to have one day in seven
    To think of God and Christ and heaven;
    Since God divorced his day of rest,
    We take the day the Popes have blest. ARSH November 19, 1857, p. 13.11

    The discourse was on the subject of man’s nature and destiny. The speaker made a very just distinction between destruction and annihilation, but represented his opponents as teaching that the wicked will be annihilated, whereas we only affirm that they will be burned up root and branch, and be ashes under the feet of the righteous. If this is true, (and who will deny it, since the word of God affirms it,) they certainly will have no conscious existence, unless ashes have. As persons they will not be, i.e. they will not exist; but this is not saying that their dust will not exist. ARSH November 19, 1857, p. 13.12

    He proceeded to affirm that “man is a triune being,” consisting of body, soul and spirit. I never heard a Disciple confess faith in the doctrine of the trinity; but why not, if man consists of three persons in one person? especially, since man was made in the image of God? But the image he said, was a moral likeness. So man may be a triune being without proving that God is. But does he mean that one man is three men? I might say that a tree consists of body, bark and leaves, and no one perhaps would dispute it. But if I should affirm that each tree consists of three trees, the assertion would possibly be doubted by some. But if all admitted that one tree is three trees, I might then affirm that there were ninety trees in my orchard, when no one could count but thirty. I might then proceed and say, I have ninety trees in my orchard, and as each tree consists of three trees, I have two hundred and seventy. So if one man is three men, you may multiply him by three as often as you please. But if it takes body, soul and spirit to make one perfect, living man; then separate these, and the man is unmade. ARSH November 19, 1857, p. 13.13 ...” - Advent Review, and Sabbath Herald, vol. 11 November 19, 1857, page 13 par. 13 (under Uriah Smith)

    Joseph H. Waggoner:

    "... The position that he is to occupy—the government that he is to hold—sufficiently identify the person here referred to as the Son of God, the Messiah. The wonder has been how he who is the Prince of Peace can be called “the everlasting Father.” It cannot represent him in any relation to “the Trinity,” as some have supposed, for the Father is uniformly considered “the first person,” while the Prince of Peace, he who appeared as the Son of David, and Heir to his throne, is as uniformly held to be the second person. If it should be claimed that he is both Father and Son in the Trinity, then it is evident there could be no Trinity, as he would be but one person with two names. It appears evident that this prophecy has no reference to any such doctrine, but refers to him as a Father in a different sense. FEE 249.2 ..." - From Eden to Eden, p. 249.2; 1890 (Joseph H. Waggoner)

    [Joseph H. Waggoner is right about the Father being a Father, the Son being a Father [and the Holy Ghost is also a Father], but in differing senses:

    The Ancient of Days [Daniel 7:9,13,22 KJB] is The Heavenly Father which is "Our Father who art in Heaven ..." [Matthew 6:9; Luke 11:2; KJB etc.]

    The Son, Jesus Christ is also a Father [Isaiah 9:6 KJB], see Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1 [He is true Israel, and as true Israel, he has children, even twelve tribes [James 1:1 KJB], see Revelation 7:3-8; 14:1-5 KJB], then turn to Hebrews 2:9-13; Isaiah 8:8-20 [which Hebrews quotes, see Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:18 KJB], for His disciples are His "children" that the Father gave unto Him [see also John 13:33 KJB].

    The Holy Ghost/Spirit is also a Father, for Christ Jesus was born of the Holy Ghost; see Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:35 KJB, and we as Christians are "babes", even "born again" [1 Peter 1:23 KJB] of the Holy Ghost [John 3:3,5,6,7,8 KJB], and thus we are "born of God", the Holy Ghost [John 1:13; 1 John 3:9, 4:7, 5:1,4,18 KJB]

    They are all Fathers, but not the same person/being, nor in the same manner. They are all Creators [in fact there is a bible verse which is plural and says 'Makers' [Ecclesiastes 12:1 HOT & so-called LXX]], and thus they are all Head over all creation [body]. The early pioneers didn't understand all of that and were digging into the truths which we now have. Why then go back to the error that thy were in and fighting with? We must go forward, not backward, neither to the left, nor to the right!]

    What is really being argued against? The word, or definition of the word?
     
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  15. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    Because James White was right to reject the faulty "definition" of the word "trinity", and thus since so many held to that false definition, they gave up on attempting to use the word, and used other words, for instance:

    "... The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the eternal Godhead ..." - Ms 45, May 14, 1904, par. 16; May 14, 1904

    [Please note, that it does not say "the eternal God", but rather "the eternal Godhead". The word Godhead is used differently than the word God.]

    "... There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ. ..." - Ms 21, 1906 (November 1905) par. 11

    [please note the difference between merely "three" and "trio" [three working together in one accord, at-one-ment, "chord", etc], proof upon request of the differing definition.]
    "... Here is where the work of the Holy Ghost comes in, after your baptism. You are baptized in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. You are raised up out of the water to live henceforth in newness of life—to live a new life. You are born unto God, and you stand under the sanction and the power of the three holiest beings in heaven, who are able to keep you from falling. You are to reveal that you are dead to sin; your life is hid with Christ in God. Hidden “with Christ in God”—wonderful transformation. This is a most precious promise. When I feel oppressed and hardly know how to relate myself toward the work that God has given me to do, I just call upon the three great Worthies, and say: You know I cannot do this work in my own strength. You must work in me, and by me, and through me, sanctifying my tongue, sanctifying my spirit, sanctifying my words, and bringing me into a position where my spirit shall be susceptible to the movings of the Holy Spirit of God upon my mind and character. Ms95-1906 (October 20, 1906) par. 29

    And this is the prayer that every one of us may offer. ..." - Ms 95, 1906 (October 20, 1906) par. 29 [there are multiple carbons of the original, this is untampered]

    [please note the "three ... beings", not 'two beings', and capital "W" in "three great Worthies", which all of whom are called upon unitedly in a prayer by sister White.]
     
  16. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    Actually they were against the faulty definition, as held by many, such as Roman Catholicism, and the protestant churches that were in error:

    However, let's consider this word “trinity”:

    Wikipedia [quick source]:

    “... The word "trinity" is derived from Latin trinitas, meaning "the number three, a triad, tri". This abstract noun is formed from the adjective trinus (three each, threefold, triple),[21] as the word unitas is the abstract noun formed from unus (one).

    The corresponding word in Greek is tριάς, meaning "a set of three" or "the number three".[22] The first recorded use of this Greek word in Christian theology was by Theophilus of Antioch in about the year of 170. He wrote:[23][24]

    In like manner also the three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity [Τριάδος], of God, and His Word, and His wisdom. And the fourth is the type of man, who needs light, that so there may be God, the Word, wisdom, man.[25]

    Tertullian, a Latin theologian who wrote in the early 3rd century, is credited as being the first to use the Latin words "Trinity",[26] "person" and "substance"[27] to explain that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are "tres personae, una substantia".[28] While "personae" is often translated as "persons," the Latin word personae is better understood as referring to roles as opposed to individual centers of consciousness. ...” - Trinity - Wikipedia

    Already we can see 2 varying definitions,

    [1] between Ignatius of Antioch [which is were they were first called “Christians” [Acts 11:26 KJB]], and

    [2] the later Latin Tertullian, which included “una substantia”.​

    Yet, throughout history there are further definitions of the word.

    Other words related or similar in meaning from Webster's 1828 Dictionary:

    TRINITY, n. [L. trinitas; tres and unus, unitas, one, unity.]

    In theology, the union of three persons in one Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

    In my whole essay, there is not any thing like an objection against the Trinity.
    TRIUNE, a. [L. tres and unus.] Three in one; an epithet applied to God, to express the unity of the Godhead in a trinity of persons.

    TRIUNITY, n. Trinity. [Not used.]

    TRIUMVIR, n. [L. tres, three, and vir, man.] One of three men united in office. The triumvirs, L. triumviri, of Rome, were three men who jointly obtained the sovereign power in Rome. The first of these were Caesar, Crassus and Pompey.

    TRIUMVIRATE, a. A coalition of three men; particularly, the union of three men who obtained the government of the Roman empire.

    1. Government by three men in coalition.”​

    The word “trinity” or even “tri-in-unity” in Greek, simply means “threefold”, or “set of three”, and has nothing to do with an inherent idea of “una substantia” as Tertullian defines, thouhg it could be defined to include such. We see that Ellen G. White in the SoP./ToJ uses English words “three”, “trio” and “threefold” on numerous occasions.

    Here is the official Roman Catholic definition of “trinity”, which in reality is 'singularity':

    The Roman Catholic Definition of the word “Trinity”:

    Online Roman Catholic Library; Credo of the People of God; Promulgated by Pope Paul VI on June 30, 1968
    - CATHOLIC LIBRARY: The Credo of the People of God (1968)

    “We believe then in the Father who eternally begets the Son, in the Son, the Word of God, who is eternally begotten; in the Holy Spirit, the uncreated Person who proceeds from the Father and the Son as their eternal love. Thus in the Three Divine Persons, coaeternae sibi et coaequales,[8] the life and beatitude of God perfectly one superabound and are consummated in the supreme excellence and glory proper to uncreated being, and always "there should be venerated unity in the Trinity and Trinity in the unity."[9]”​

    Online Roman Catholic Encyclopedia, Holy Spirit; sections throughout - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Holy Ghost

    “... that the Paraclete "is not to be considered as unconnected with the Father and the Son, for He is with Them one in substance and divinity"...

    ... Proceeding both from the Father and the Son, the Holy Ghost, nevertheless, proceeds from Them as from a single principle. ... Hence it follows, indeed, that the Holy Ghost proceeds from the two other Persons, not in so far as They are distinct, but inasmuch as Their Divine perfection is numerically one. Besides, such is the explicit teaching of ecclesiastical tradition, which is concisely put by St. Augustine (On the Holy Trinity V.14): "As the Father and the Son are only one God and, relatively to the creature, only one Creator and one Lord, so, relatively to the Holy Ghost, They are only one principle." This doctrine was definded in the following words by the Second Ecumenical Council of Lyons [Denzinger, "Enchiridion" (1908), n. 460]: "We confess that the Holy Ghost proceeds eternally from the Father and the Son, not as from two principles, but as from one principle, not by two spirations, but by one single spiration." The teaching was again laid down by the Council of Florence (ibid., n. 691), and by Eugene IV in his Bull "Cantate Domino" (ibid., n. 703 sq.). ...

    ..."the Holy Ghost comes from the Father and from the Son not made, not created, not generated, but proceeding" ...”​

    The Council of Florence (A.D. 1438-1445) From Cantate Domino — Papal Bull of Pope Eugene IV by Pope Eugene IV - The Council of Florence (A.D. 1438-1445) From Cantate Domino — Papal Bull of Pope Eugene IV

    The sacrosanct Roman Church, founded by the voice of our Lord and Savior, firmly believes, professes, and preaches one true God omnipotent, unchangeable, and eternal, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; one in essence, three in persons; Father unborn, Son born of the Father, Holy Spirit proceeding from Father and Son; that the Father is not Son or Holy Spirit, that Son is not Father or Holy Spirit; that Holy Spirit is not Father or Son; but Father alone is Father, Son alone is Son, Holy Spirit alone is Holy Spirit. The Father alone begot the Son of His own substance; the Son alone was begotten of the Father alone; the Holy Spirit alone proceeds at the same time from the Father and Son.

    These three persons are one God, and not three gods, because the three have one substance, one essence, one nature, one divinity, one immensity, one eternity, where no opposition of relationship interferes.

    “Because of this unity the Father is entire in the Son, entire in the Holy Spirit; the Son is entire in the Father, entire in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is entire in the Father, entire in the Son. No one either excels another in eternity, or exceeds in magnitude, or is superior in power. For the fact that the Son is of the Father is eternal and without beginning; and that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son is eternal and without beginning.” Whatever the Father is or has, He does not have from another, but from Himself; and He is the principle without principle. Whatever the Son is or has, He has from the Father, and is the principle from a principle. Whatever the Holy Spirit is or has, He has simultaneously from the Father and the Son. But the Father and the Son are not two principles of the Holy Spirit, but one principle, just as the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are not three principles of the creature, but one principle. ...”​

    I do not believe the Roman Catholic definition of the word “trinity”, and neither should you.

    Here is how sister White uses the terms “one substance”:

    “... With what firmness and power he uttered these words. The Jews had never before heard such words from human lips, and a convicting influence attended them; for it seemed that divinity flashed through humanity as Jesus said, “I and my Father are one.” The words of Christ were full of deep meaning as he put forth the claim that he and the Father were of one substance, possessing the same attributes. The Jews understood his meaning, there was no reason why they should misunderstand, and they took up stones to stone him. Jesus looked upon them calmly and unshrinkingly, and said, “Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of these works do ye stone me?” ...” - The Signs of the Times November 27, 1893 paragraph 5 (Ellen G. White) & see also SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 7A (EGW), p. 437.3; 1970 (citing Ellen G. White)

    Thus sister White defines her own use. “one substance” = “possessing the same attributes”, not that they [Father and Son] were “one Being”, or “one Person” “without body or parts”, etc., and “[t]he Jews understood his meaning”.

    This is similar in saying:

    “... The only way in which the fallen race could be restored was through the gift of his Son, equal with himself, possessing the attributes of God. ...” - The Review and Herald November 8, 1892 paragraph 3 (Ellen G. White)

    Which is similar to:

    “... Satan charged God with possessing the attributes that he himself possessed. Christ came to this world to reveal God's character as it really is. He is the perfect representation of the Father. His life of sinlessness, lived on this earth in human nature, is a complete refutation of Satan's charge against the character of God. {BTS, October 1, 1902 par. 2}​

    Thousands of years before, Christ had shown to Moses the character of the Father, passing before him and proclaiming, "The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty." "Thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." {BTS, October 1, 1902 par. 3} ...” - Bible Training School October 1, 1902 paragraph 2 - 3 (Ellen G. White)

    This is similar in saying to, Jesus and the disciples:

    “... The unity that exists between Christ and His disciples does not destroy the personality of either. They are one in purpose, in mind, in character, but not in person. ...” - The Ministry of Healing, p. 242.4 & 422.1; 1905 (Ellen G. White)

    Ellen. G. White [thus SoP/ToJ] does not ever [at least that I am personally aware of in her written materials, and I do not know if she ever said the word vocally or not] use the specific word “trinity”.

    Yet, this works against, just as well as for.

    Why?

    If she never mentions the word, not in favor, nor against in a single SoP/ToJ statement, then why is there all of this heat and no light coming from certain brethren? Honestly, why? If it was such a big deal to sister White, or to God for that matter over this word, rather than definition, where is the specific counsel to avoid it, shun it, not use it because of its Roman origins?

    You see, the argument easily goes both ways, because it is a wax-nose “She was for it!”, “She was against it!”, and satan laughs.

    The truth is, she wrote nothing about the word “trinity” one way or the other in the SoP/ToJ, and the same goes for the scripture [KJB], and that is what is truly irrefutable.

    It's just a word, like the word “napkin”, “boot”, “bonnet”, and in the united States, England and Australia, those words mean different things, depending upon the definition. How is that word, “trinity”, defined by any specific person/s would make a difference now wouldn't it? What she did do, and this without question, is use the words “three”, “trio”, “threefold” and “three … are united” specifically:

    “... Three distinct agencies, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, work together for human beings. They are united in the work of making the church on earth like the church in heaven. ...” - Ms 27a, 1900 (April 19, 1900) par. 22

    “... “The likeness.” They are buried in the likeness of Christ’s death and raised in the likeness of His resurrection. And then what? All heaven is pledged in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost they receive at their baptism. That heavenly party is pledged that They will be with you to keep your baptismal vows, and that you shall rise up from the water to live in newness of life. “Ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.” And then you are to live the new life unto Jesus Christ. He loves you. He has made all these provisions, that the power of Satan should be broken off from human minds, that you should take hold of a power, yes, a power. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghostall these blend, and in Their strength you can be overcomers by the blood of the Lamb and the words of your testimony. Will you try it? Will you watch, will you pray, will you have your seasons to lay hold of the promises? I want heaven. ...” - Ms 144, 1906 (September 22, 1906) par. 25

    Some utilize this fact that Ellen G. White didn't use the word in her writing, as evidence for the invalidity, uninspiredness or even wickedness of the word “trinity”.

    This is a logical fallacy.

    Absence of citation is not evidence for invalidity, etc.

    Otherwise, the same could be stated of other words, but also not found in the SoP/ToJ. For instance, Ellen G. White, in the SoP/ToJ does not ever use the word “Dinosaur/s”, “Dinosauria”, etc.

    Are we to assume because of that, and using the same logic, that the words are pagan, wicked, invalid to use?

    Only a foolish and unreasoning person would so say.

    They are simply a latinized term describing the Biblical/scriptural [KJB] word/beasts known as “dragon/s”, “fiery flying serpents”, “Behemoth”, “Leviathan”, etc.

    Likewise, Ellen G. White does not use the word “asteroid” [1802], but does use the word “meteor” [13c-15c], and so on.
     
  17. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    This is simply a mis-characterization of sister White and ignorance (not knowing) of the facts of the matter. She reproved many people, on many subjects, including this one. She even wrote clear statements in the Desire of Ages, when the arguments were raging over the definition in her day:

    “... “His name shall be called Immanuel, ... God with us.” “The light of the knowledge of the glory of God” is seen “in the face of Jesus Christ.” From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father; He was “the image of God,” the image of His greatness and majesty, “the outshining of His glory.” It was to manifest this glory that He came to our world. To this sin-darkened earth He came to reveal the light of God's love,—to be “God with us.” Therefore it was prophesied of Him, “His name shall be called Immanuel.” DA 19.1 ...” - The Desire of Ages, p. 19.1; 1898

    "... All the intelligences of heaven are in this army. And more than angels are in the ranks. The Holy Spirit, the representative of the Captain of the Lord's host, comes down to direct the battle. Our infirmities may be many, our sins and mistakes grievous; but the grace of God is for all who seek it with contrition. The power of Omnipotence is enlisted in behalf of those who trust in God. {DA 352.2} ..." - Desire of Ages 352.2 (1898)

    [please note:

    [3] The Holy Spirit is an intelligence, having the power of Omnipotence, directing the battle, and is more than angels, and is in the ranks, enlisted in, of the army of Heaven, and is the representative of:

    [2] the Captain [Ruler/Prince], Jesus Christ/Michael the Archangel, the Son of the Father, of:
    [1] the Lord [the Father]]

    She was argued against all the time, and even cast out to Australia. She humbly submitted to being rejected and sent to the other side of the world. However, she was not teaching error, but they rejected the truth of the matter in those things they rejected. This is simply referring to the broad matter, not the specific one at hand.

    Yet there were those among the many, that individually held to their ideas, Uriah Smith, Ellet Joseph (E.J.) Waggoner, etc, which were in great error.

    Not at all, consider the prophets of old.

    I am glad that you asked, but please do not get your information from half-baked websites, that have agendas. Go to the pure source (as you do for LDS), and make sure to thoroughly read the context, for she writes just as the Bible writers of old did, line upon line. Examples upon request.

    Sister White:

    "... The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the eternal Godhead ..." - Ms 45, May 14, 1904, par. 16; May 14, 1904

    [Please note, that it does not say "the eternal God", but rather "the eternal Godhead". The word Godhead is used differently than the word God.]

    "... There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ. ..." - Ms 21, 1906 (November 1905) par. 11

    [please note the difference between merely "three" and "trio" [three working together in one accord, at-one-ment, "chord", etc], proof upon request of the differing definition.]
    "... Here is where the work of the Holy Ghost comes in, after your baptism. You are baptized in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. You are raised up out of the water to live henceforth in newness of life—to live a new life. You are born unto God, and you stand under the sanction and the power of the three holiest beings in heaven, who are able to keep you from falling. You are to reveal that you are dead to sin; your life is hid with Christ in God. Hidden “with Christ in God”—wonderful transformation. This is a most precious promise. When I feel oppressed and hardly know how to relate myself toward the work that God has given me to do, I just call upon the three great Worthies, and say: You know I cannot do this work in my own strength. You must work in me, and by me, and through me, sanctifying my tongue, sanctifying my spirit, sanctifying my words, and bringing me into a position where my spirit shall be susceptible to the movings of the Holy Spirit of God upon my mind and character. Ms95-1906 (October 20, 1906) par. 29

    And this is the prayer that every one of us may offer. ..." - Ms 95, 1906 (October 20, 1906) par. 29 [there are multiple carbons of the original, this is untampered]

    [please note the "three ... beings", not 'two beings', and capital "W" in "three great Worthies", which all of whom are called upon unitedly in a prayer by sister White.]
    I have many, many more, all citations upon request, in their orderly years, and in all their known instances and forms, capitals, lowercase, varied forms, etc.

    What follows is a lengthy evidence, take your time. It is a resource tool.

    2 Timothy 2:24 KJB - And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

    2 Timothy 2:25 KJB - In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

    2 Timothy 2:26 KJB - And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

    2 Timothy 2:15 KJB - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Here is quick reference listing of SOP/TOJ [Spirit of Prophecy / Testimony of Jesus] for those lifting up the banner of JEHOVAH Elohiym's love [to be added to later as needed] in the "trio" and "three Persons", the "The three great and glorious heavenly characters", the "three great Powers", "three great Worthies", "the third Person of the Godhead", "The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit", "The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the eternal Godhead", "Three distinct agencies, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost" & "the three holiest beings":

    Do not be deceived by the word "Powers" into thinking you are dealing with a mere force, since the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost/Spirit, as well as unfallen [as Gabriel and legions of Light] and fallen angels [as Lucifer and legions of Lie-ght], etc are all designated as "powers", each whom are living persons, living beings, see

    Heavenly “powers”:

    Ephesians 1:20 KJB - Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

    Ephesians 1:21 KJB - Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

    Ephesians 3:10 KJB - To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

    Ephesians 6:12 KJB - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    Colossians 1:16 KJB - For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    Titus 3:1 KJB - Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

    1 Peter 3:22 KJB - Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.​

    & see also:

    James Springer White - "... Angels are also spirits [Ps.civ,4], yet those that visited Abram and Lot, lay down, ate, and took hold of Lot's hand. They were spirit beings. So is God a Spirit being. ..." - {1861 JW, PERGO 3.3}

    Do not be deceived by Bible [KJB] or SOP/TOJ passages which only mention "two" or "only", "alone", as they must be read in their proper contexts so that:


    "One saying of the Saviour must not be made to destroy another." - The Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 4, p. 496.2 (Ellen G. White); see also GC 1888 (1911), page 370.2; and also Here to Forever, page 231.1

    There are many places in scripture [KJB] which mention only two, three or four disciples, but that doesn't mean that there were only those numerically, as in other context reveals more. Passages in the SOP/TOJ thus likewise. Certain contexts are only dwelling upon the Persons/Beings of the Father and the Son, but there are other texts of scripture [KJB] and the SOP/TOJ which only speak of the person/being of the Holy Spirit, or Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit, or only Jesus without any mention of the Father, etc. We will be looking are specific SOP/TOJ texts at a later time.

    There is not a single Bible [KJB] or SOP/TOJ text/passage which adovcates the erroneous "two beings and three personalities" doctrine; which is a doctrine of devils, empty clouds with no rain, carried about of winds [1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Peter 2:17; Jude 1:12 KJB] puffed up with pride. Such utterances as some speak are forced into the rested mouth of Sister Ellen G. White.
    A useful [not perfect, but excellent resource] Link, Defending the Godhead by bro. Vance Ferrell - http://www.worldincrisis.org/Harvestime-Books/Defending-the-Godhead.pdf
     
  18. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    Format:

    [Entry] [Number of entries found] [Number of Original Sources, outside of Compilations]

    [Classification, Noted Differences, "lowercase", "uppercase", "plural", "singular", etc]

    [quotation of earliest known available online source; date of source]

    [All known sources of any given quotation cited from earliest to latest, colour Red sources are of Ellen G. White original, or while still alive; all colour Black after the death of Ellen G. White or are compilations; the compiled book Evangelism, will be in colour Green [non bold]; some compilation sources will be shown to be specifically citing a previous source will also be in colour Red]

    [Source association/contextual texts, information]

    Begin sources:

    [Entry 01A] [41 entries] [26 original sources]

    [Lowercase “powers”]

    three great powers of heaven” - Ms 11, February 5, 1901, par. 4; February 5, 1901

    See also:

    GCB, April 14, 1901, par. 32; April 14, 1901

    ST, June 19, 1901, par. 4; June 19, 1901

    ST, February 12, 1902, par. 9; February 12, 1902

    Ms 30, March 2, 1902, par. 12; March 2, 1902

    Ms 118, October 6, 1902, par. 4; October 6, 1902

    Ms 118, October 6, 1902, par. 11; October 6, 1902

    ST, March 11, 1903, par. 2; March 11, 1903

    RH, May 5, 1903, par. 8; May 5, 1903

    Lt 102, June 3, 1903, par. 11; June 3, 1903

    Lt 129, July 2, 1903, par. 10; July 2, 1903

    Ms 136; 1903, citing (Review, September 10, 1903 (Lt 173, 1902))


    8T, 254.1; 1904

    SW, February 23, 1904, par. 2; February 23, 1904

    Lt 53, January 26, 1904, par. 20; January 26, 1904

    Lt 1, December 31, 1904, par. 2; December 31, 1904

    Ms 54, May 13, 1905, par. 34; May 13, 1905

    Ms 78, 1905, par.8; 1905

    Ms 181, 1905, par. 10; 1905

    Ms 187, January 20, 1905, par. 18; January 20, 1905

    Ms 191, August 12, 1905, par. 26; August 12, 1905

    ST, May 10, 1905, par. 8; May 10, 1905

    RH, June 15, 1905, par. 33; June 15, 1905

    ST, August 1905, par. 2; August 1905

    Lt 32, February 5, 1907, par. 6; February 5, 1907

    ST, May 10, 1910, par. 11; May 10, 1910


    Ev, 65.2; 1946, citing (Manuscript 118, 1902)

    Ev, 307.3; 1946, citing (Letter 129, 1903)

    ML, 343.6; 1952

    7BC, 908.11; 1957, citing (MS 11, 1901)

    2SM, 391.3; 1958, citing (RH, May 5, 1903, par. 8)

    HP, 176.5; 1967

    7ABC, 442.2; 1970, citing (SW, February 23, 1904, par. 2)

    7ABC, 442.3; 1970, citing (ST, June 19, 1901, par. 4)

    MAR, 252.2; 1976

    RC, 107.3; 1985

    4MR, No. 242, 368.5; 1990, citing (Letter 53, 1904, p. 6 (To W. W. Prescott, January 26, 1904)))

    6MR, No. 347, 27.1; 1990, citing (MS 78, 1905, pp.3-5 ("A Message to Believers," undated))

    6MR, No. 373, 166.3; 1990, citing (Ms 118, 1902, pp. 1-2 ("Christ's Method of Imparting Truth," October 6, 1902).)

    19MR, No. 1399, 235.2; 1990, citing (Letter 32, 1907; Ellen G. White Estate Washington, D.C. June 16, 1988. Entire Letter.)

    CCh, 356.5; 1991
    [connected with the words,

    ST, March 11, 1903, par. 2 - “Those who submit to the solemn rite of baptism pledge themselves to devote their lives to God's service; and the three great powers of heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, pledge themselves to cooperate with them, to work in and through them. As men and women thus enter into covenant relation with God, they take the name of Christian. Henceforth they are to live the life of Christ. They have been buried with Him, and they are to “seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.””

    ST, May 10, 1905, par. 8 - “Keep yourselves where the three great powers of heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, can be your efficiency. These powers work with the man who gives himself unreservedly to God, heart and soul and mind and strength. “If a man love Me,” Christ says, “He will keep My words; and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make Our abode with him.” The power that comes with Christ's abiding presence is at the command of His believing ones. The man who makes God his trust is barricaded by an impregnable wall.””

    ST, August 1905, par. 2 - The three great powers of heaven pledge themselves to furnish the Christian with all the assistance he requires. The Spirit changes the heart of stone to the heart of flesh. And by partaking of the Word of God, Christians obtain an experience that is after the divine similitude. When Christ abides in the heart by faith, the Christian is the temple of God. Christ does not abide in the heart of the sinner, but in the heart of him who is susceptible to the influences of heaven.”

    ST, May 10, 1910, par. 11 - “Those who proclaim the third angel's message, must put on the whole armor of God, that they may stand boldly at their post in the face of detraction and falsehood, fighting the good fight of faith. They are to resist the enemy with the word, "It is written.” They are to keep themselves where the three great powers of heaven -- the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit -- can be their efficiency. These powers work with the one who gives himself unreservedly to God. The strength of heaven is at the command of God's believing ones. The man who makes God his trust is barricaded by an impregnable wall.”

    RC, 107.3 1985 - The three great powers of heaven pledge Themselves to furnish the Christian with all the assistance he requires.”

    4MR, No. 242, 368.5 1990, citing (Letter 53, 1904, p. 6 (To W. W. Prescott, January 26, 1904))) -The three great powers of heaven pledge themselves to furnish to the Christian all the assistance he requires. The Spirit changes the heart of stone to the heart of flesh. And by partaking of the word of God, eating the flesh and drinking the blood of His Son, Christians obtain an experience that is after the divine similitude. When Christ abides in the heart by faith, the Christian is the temple of God. Christ does not abide in the heart of the sinner, but hearts that are susceptible to the influence of Heaven's -369- instrumentalities, and have been sanctified by obedience to the truth, are representatives of His righteousness.--Letter 53, 1904, p. 6. (To W. W. Prescott, January 26, 1904.)”]​
     
  19. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    [Entry 01B] [6 entries] [1 original source]

    [Uppercase “Powers”]

    three great Powers of heaven” - Ms 183, May 12, 1907, par. 7; May 12, 1907

    See also:

    1NL, 124.1; 1945, citing (Undated MS 131)

    3TT, 257.2; 1949

    LDE, 29.3; 1992, citing (Ev, 65.2 1946, citing (Manuscript 118, 1902))

    21MR, No. 1531, 150.4; 1993, citing (Ms 118, 1902)

    21MR, No. 1531, 152.1; 1993, citing (Ms 118, 1902)
    [connected with the words,

    NL, 124.1 1945, citing (Undated MS 131)
    - “No requirement is laid upon man that Christ has not obeyed. We can overcome as He overcame, if we will avail ourselves of the help of the three great powers of heaven, who are waiting to answer the demand made upon them by God's people for power to defeat satanic agencies.”

    1NL, 124.5-124.6 1945, citing (Undated MS 131) - ““Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; that they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in us.” {1NL 124.5}

    Distinct Personalities

    These words present God and Christ as two distinct personalities. {1NL 124.6}””]​

    [Entry 01C] [7 entries] [3 original sources]


    [Lowercase “powers” & “in heaven”]

    three great powers in heaven” - Ms 57, August 12, 1900, par. 10; August 12, 1900

    See also:

    Ms 182, May 11, 1907, par. 10; May 11, 1907

    Ms 37, March 10, 1908, par. 24; March 10, 1908

    6BC, 1074.8; 1956, citing (MS 57, 1900)

    FLB, 146.3; 1958

    6MR No. 347, 29.1; 1990, citing (Ms 37, 1908, p.6 ("Abiding in Christ," Sermon, March 10, 1908))

    2SAT, 295.5; 1995, citing (Ms 37, 1908, p.6 ("Abiding in Christ," Sermon, March 10, 1908))

    [connected with the words,

    6BC, 1074.8 1956, citing (MS 57, 1900) -In baptism we are given to the Lord as a vessel to be used. Baptism is a most solemn renunciation of the world. Self is by profession dead to a life of sin. The waters cover the candidate, and in the presence of the whole heavenly universe the mutual pledge is made. In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, man is laid in his watery grave, buried with Christ in baptism, and raised from the water to live the new life of loyalty to God. The three great powers in heaven are witnesses; they are invisible but present.”]​


    [Entry 01D] [1 entry] [1 original source]

    [Uppercase “Powers” & “in heaven”]

    three great Powers in heaven” - Ms 190, July 11, 1903, par. 26; July 11, 1903


    [
    Entry 01E] [11 entries] [6 original sources]

    [Lowercase “powers” & general text]


    three great powers” - Ms 118, October 6, 1902, par. 10; October 6, 1902

    See also:

    Ms 159, September 11, 1904, par. 48; September 11, 1904

    Ms 66, May 25, 1905, par. 14; May 25, 1905

    RH, June 22, 1905, par. 14 (A Talk By Mrs. E. G. White, May 27, 1905); June 22, 1905

    Ms 21, November 1905, par. 11; November 1905 (1906)

    SpTB07, 63.2; 1906 (Sanitarium, Cal., November, 1905)


    Ev, 615.1; 1946, citing (SpTB07, 62,63 (1905))

    HP, 336.2; 1967

    7ABC, 441.9; 1970, citing (Ev, 615.1 1946, citing (SpTB07, 62,63 (1905)))

    RC 178.3; 1985

    1SAT, 321.1; 1990, citing (Ms 31, 1901 (MR 900.3))

    [connected with the words,


    “You went down into the water, and you claimed to be dead unto the world. And then the three great powers, the Holy Spirit, the Father, and the Son, were the names that you were baptized in, and when in trial and when is perplexity you come right to these, and say, My Father, I plead with Thee for Thy Holy Spirit, that when You gave these to our world, You gave all heaven to the world in the three great powers that were in the heavenly courts. Now this is the plea that you are to make with God.”

    &The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven is the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit--those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized and these powers will cooperate with the obedient.”]​
     
  20. HeartenedHeart

    HeartenedHeart Member

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    [Entry 01F] [1 entry] [0 original sources]

    [Uppercase “Powers” & general text]

    three great Powers” - 21MR No. 1531, 151.5; 1993​


    [Entry 01G] [3 entries [3 original sources]

    [Lowercase “powers” & “heavenly”]

    three great heavenly powers” - Ms 192, 1903, par. 22; 1903

    See also:

    Ms 147, December 15, 1906, par. 49; December 15, 1906

    Ms 186, May 18, 1907, par. 7; May 18, 1907


    [Entry 01H] [3 entries] [1 original source]

    [Uppercase “Powers” & “heavenly”]

    three great heavenly Powers” - Ms 130, October 27, 1902, par. 15; October 27, 1902

    See also:

    6MR No. 373, 167.1; 1990, citing (Ms 130, 1902 (Diary, October 27, 1902))

    18MR No. 1314, 104.1; 1990, citing (Manuscript 130, 1902; (Diary entry written October 27, 1902, at "Elmshaven," St. Helena, Ca.))


    [Entry 02A] [27 entries; 18 Lowercase “third”, Lowercase “person”] [10 original sources]

    [Lowercase “third”, Lowercase “person”]

    the third person of the Godhead” - Lt 8, February 6, 1896, par. 2; February 6, 1896

    See also:

    SpTA10, 25.2; 1897, (“Sunnyside,” Cooranbong, February 6, 1896 (Copied January 28, 1897)

    SpTA10, 37.1; 1897, (“Sunnyside,” Cooranbong, February 6, 1896 (Copied January 28, 1897)

    Ms 22, March 5, 1897, par. 19; March 5, 1897

    Ms 44, March 29, 1898, par. 11; March 29, 1898

    ST, December 1, 1898, par. 2; December 1, 1898

    RH, May 19, 1904, par. 3; May 19, 1904

    SW, November 28, 1905, par. 2; November 28, 1905

    RH, November 19, 1908, par. 5; November 19, 1908 (Reading for Thursday, December 17th)


    Ev, 617.2; 1946
    , citing (Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 10, p. 37. (1897))

    ML, 36.3; 1952

    6BC, 1052.5; 1956, citing (SW November 28, 1905)

    FLB 52.6; 1958

    UL, 51.3; 1982

    1888, 1493.2; 1987, citing (“Sunnyside,” Cooranbong, February 6, 1896 (Copied January 28, 1897), (Letter 8, 1896, p.1 (To “My Brethren in America,” February 6, 1896))

    10MR No. 791, 63.3; 1990, citing (Letter 8, 1896, p.1 (To “My Brethren in America,” February 6, 1896))

    YRP, 13.3; 1995, citing, (RH, November 19, 1908)

    CTr, 301.4; 1999, citing (Manuscript 44, 1898)

    [connected with the words,

    Ctr 301.4-301.5 -
    “Christ determined to bestow a gift on those who had been with Him and on those who should believe on Him, because this was the occasion of His ascension and inauguration, a jubilee in heaven. What gift could Christ bestow rich enough to signalize and grace His ascension to the mediatorial throne? It must be worthy of His greatness and His royalty. Christ gave His representative, the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit. This Gift could not be excelled. . . . {CTr 301.4}

    On the day of Pentecost Christ gave His disciples the Holy Spirit as their Comforter. It was ever to abide with His church. During the whole Jewish economy the influence of this Spirit has often been revealed in a marked manner, but not in full. The Spirit had been waiting for the crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension of Christ. For ages prayers had been offered for the fulfillment of the promise, for the impartation of the Spirit; and not one of these earnest supplications had been forgotten. Now for ten days the disciples sent up their petitions, and Christ in heaven added His intercession. He claimed the gift of the Spirit, that He might pour it out upon His people. . . . [Christ] having reached His throne, the Spirit was given as He had promised, and like a rushing, mighty wind, it fell upon those assembled, filling the whole house. It came with a fullness and power, as if for ages it had been restrained, but was now poured forth upon the church, to be communicated to the world. What followed this outpouring? Thousands were converted in a day.—Manuscript 44, 1898. {CTr 301.5}”]​


    [Entry 02B] [27 entries; 8 Uppercase “Third”, Uppercase “Person”] [10 original sources]

    [Uppercase “Third”, Uppercase “Person”]

    the Third Person of the Godhead” - DA, 671.2; 1898

    See also:

    TM, 392.2; 1923, citing (Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 10, p. 37. (1897))

    AG, 194.2; 1973

    HLv, 450.3; January 1, 1984

    2MR No. 99, 34.1; 1987, citing (Letter 8, 1896, pp. 1,5. (To “My Brethren in America,” February 6, 1896))

    LHU, 191.3; 1988

    4MR No. 240, 329.5; 1990, citing (Letter 8, 1896)

    HH, 312.5; 2008​


    [Entry 02C] [27 entries; 1 Lowercase “third”, Uppercase “Person”] [10 original sources]

    [Lowercase “third”, Uppercase “Person”]

    the third Person of the Godhead” - FH, 306.3; 2010​
     
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