The Trinity - an explanation

wayseer

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An explanation of the doctrine of the Trinity is called for. While there have been numerous threads on CF concerning the Trinity I have not read of any concise explanation. Indeed, I have not heard of any such explanation forthcoming from a pulpit - something is wrong. Yet the Trinity stands at the heart of Christianity.

This is my attempt at explaining the Trinity - not defending its doctrinal based. (For those who are interested in arguing about the doctrine you might like to look at Matt 18:19 and Acts 2:38).

In trying to explain the Trinity we are anchored, more by habit I suggest, to think about the Trinity in the form of 'persons'. Perhaps there is another way that bypasses this post-modern world and its focus on the individual.

At the outset any explanation of the Trinity suffers from its source - that of a theist God looking down on humanity. Here we append such images as omnipresence, omnipotent, immutable and unknowing and perhaps, in the mystery of it all, unknowable - one beyond our earthly existence and largely beyond our understanding - incommunicable. With big words like that being thrown about like than it is little wonder we have difficult with explaining the Trinity.

If we leave it there, captured by big words, we suffering from pushing God to the margins of existence. No wonder Israel had problems in approaching God at all. So, we need another way of thinking.

Here I utilize the thoughts of Daniel L. Migliore (2004), Professor of Systematic Theology at Princeton Theological Seminary. Migliore suggests, urges, us to consider the use such 'big words' centered within the person and work of Jesus Christ rather than using them independently to explain the Trinity.

If we focus on the life of Jesus we gain as sense of balance. Words associated with Jesus tend to be small and concrete. Words like, humility, poor, suffering, grace, freedom, grace, glory, abound in the NT. These are words that reflect our humanity rather then the theist's God holy other. The words of Jesus are close to us not far away - they have an immediacy rather than vague ethereal indirectness.

To marry the two - God (far) and Jesus (near) - we need to set these groups of words in a dialectic relation according to Migilore which I rework into concepts of 'near' and 'far'.

For example ...

Grace (near) might be better represented by Jesus while holiness (far) better represents God.

Immutable (far) might best portray God while faithfully and steadfast (near) might better portray Jesus.

Omnipotent (far) surely represents God while vulnerable (near) might better portray Jesus.

Jesus certainly talks about freedom (near) while God is sovereign (far).

There are any number of other arranged pairs that you might like to consider. My point is that within the Trinity we generate a spatial distance between Father (far), Son (near) and Holy Spirit (present) rather than remain with the image of 'persons'. In this way we can shorten the distance between a sovereign God and the presence of the Holy Spirt through the medium of Jesus Christ. By using common day words like 'present', 'near' and 'far', which have more meaning to us in our every day life, we include ourselves within a time/space image which embraces all three points of reference - and space, unlike 'persons,' does not provoke images of separate entities somehow squashed into one.

Well, there it is. Comments and critique are welcome. But please remember - this thread is NOT about defending the doctrine of the Trinity - it is about trying for a better explanation.
 

cyberlizard

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would you not say though that the presentation of two dichotomous and often mutually exclusive character traits just leads to further confusion....

why not just admit we cannot explain the fact that God is one... After all we do not go through life attempting to explain the existence of water (a common analogy). We simply accept the fact it is there on an experiential level. That should be enough.

Shema.... HaShem is the only One! (echad)



Steve
 
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Emmy

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Dear wayseer. If we remember that God is Spirit, Holy Spirit, and that God is everywhere, and sees everything, it is (perhaps) easier to understand. God-Father is our Maker, He made us in His image. God-Son, Spirit of the Father`s Spirit, became Man in a chosen vessel of Woman, (Mary) and was delivered in due time. He lived amongst us for 30 odd years, and showed us God as God really is, our loving Heavenly Father, who wants us back again. After Jesus had reconciled us to God, He left Earth to return to the Father. As Jesus ascended into Heaven, He told His disciples: " I am going back to the Father, and we will send the Holy Spirit to carry on the work, which I started." 3 Persons/Beings, God-Father, God-Son, and God-Holy-Spirit, ONE GREAT GOD, working together to redeem Mankind. I say this humbly and with love, wayseer. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
 
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MrPolo

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By using common day words like 'present', 'near' and 'far', which have more meaning to us in our every day life, we include ourselves within a time/space image which embraces all three points of reference - and space, unlike 'persons,' does not provoke images of separate entities somehow squashed into one.

Perhaps in order to see if I understand this explanation correctly, let me rephrase it back to you in my words. Are you saying that although God is indeed 3 "persons" that such language is confusing? And less confusing would be to describe Him in terms of spatial relationship like near, far, etc...?
 
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wayseer

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Perhaps in order to see if I understand this explanation correctly, let me rephrase it back to you in my words. Are you saying that although God is indeed 3 "persons" that such language is confusing? And less confusing would be to describe Him in terms of spatial relationship like near, far, etc...?

Yes - that's the idea.

In the day of rampant individualism, where the individual is the measure of all things, the idea of God being 'persons' just has to mean three 'individuals'. I'm trying to get away from that imagery.

On the other hand it seems we, in the 21st century, are more OK with time/space as a more continuous image.
 
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angelmom01

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Found this in relation to the reference to "persons" (which I agree is not the ideal way to explain God, though we probably aren't left with much else as an alternative):

Person: In speaking of the Triunity, the term “person” is not used in same way it is in ordinary usage in which it means an identity completely distinct from other persons. Actually the word persons tends to detract from the unity of the Trinity. According to the teaching of Scripture, the three Persons are inseparable, interdependent, and eternally united in one Divine Being.

It is evident that the word “person” is not ideal for the purpose. Orthodox writers have struggled over this term. Some have opted for the term subsistence (the mode or quality of existence), hence, “God has three substances.” Most have continued to use persons because we have not been able to find a better term. “The word substance speaks of God’s essential nature or being and subsistence describes His mode or quality of existence.”14
from: The Trinity (Triunity) of God | Bible.org; NET Bible, Bible Study
 
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Thekla

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At least to my understanding, the understanding of the Trinity must include the testimony of John: God is love. In this sense, the idea of "persons" does not suggest "individualism", as there cannot be love where there is a singularity (the sense of individual); love gives and receives. Instead, the persons exist in a communion of love. (As an illustration: "And yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me." John 16:32b

As for a definition of proximity, the description of the Father as 'far' gives perhaps some problem when compared to this:
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
John 14:23
 
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AngelusSax

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Someone once tried to explain the Trinity thus: God is in relationship with Himself.

Someone else, in one of the Sunday School classes I've attended, said it this way: God is a Relationship.

Perhaps that helps with the idea of three persons yet one Being...?
 
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Zeena

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Someone once tried to explain the Trinity thus: God is in relationship with Himself.

Someone else, in one of the Sunday School classes I've attended, said it this way: God is a Relationship.

Perhaps that helps with the idea of three persons yet one Being...?
I think so :)

I'm also conviced wayseer's concept might actually be good for my soul, so here goes :)

Father (far), Son (near) and Holy Spirit (present)

Judge / Redeemer / Comforter

hehe-that wasn't so bad!-lol
 
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wayseer

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Father (far) / Son (near) / Holy Spirit (present)

Holy / Righteous / Power

Cannot look upon sin / Became sin for us / Mortifies sin in our bodies

Higher than the Heavens / Son of Man / The breath of God

Well, it's a start anyways :)

I think you have demonstrated how the imagery works - in theory anyway. I think your examples are excellent.

Of issue now is - do these juxtaposition of words make any different in practice? Do they explain any better the Trinity?

Just reading through you posts I am struck how they resonate with what what John P Meier advocates concerning Jesus' life. Meier draws attention to 'relationships' that Jesus had with various groups in Palestine. There were those close - the disciples, those in the middle - the seventy - and those further out - the crowds. Just a thought.

Thank you for your contribution - excellent.:)
 
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angelmom01

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Zeena said:
Father (far), Son (near) and Holy Spirit (present)

Judge / Redeemer / Comforter


Zeena said:
Father (far) / Son (near) / Holy Spirit (present)

Holy / Righteous / Power

Cannot look upon sin / Became sin for us / Mortifies sin in our bodies

Higher than the Heavens / Son of Man / The breath of God


Excellent Posts. I wasn't quite "getting it" at first, but BAMM!!! There it is!!!

:amen:


Thanks!!!
 
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Zeena

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Your welcome angelmom01 :)

I rather liked this exercise! :D

I think you have demonstrated how the imagery works - in theory anyway. I think your examples are excellent.
And they made me think! OUWCH! ^_^

Of issue now is - do these juxtaposition of words make any different in practice? Do they explain any better the Trinity?
I think so.
For we hold a relationship to each Person of the Godhead in the revelation to us of His Being.

The Holy Father in the relationship as Father.
The Holy Son in relationship as Brother.
The Holy Spirit in relationship as Mother.

Thus, we are complete in God, having need for none other. :)
One big happy family in Christ :)

Just reading through you posts I am struck how they resonate with what what John P Meier advocates concerning Jesus' life. Meier draws attention to 'relationships' that Jesus had with various groups in Palestine. There were those close - the disciples, those in the middle - the seventy - and those further out - the crowds. Just a thought.
A good thought, praise God. :)

Jeremiah 23:23
Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?

Thank you for your contribution - excellent.:)
Glad you liked it, thanks for the opportunity, praise God! :wave:
 
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