the tribulation of those days, Matthew 24:29

[iamlamad]

One day I'll be crossing the road from life to eternity if the Rapture doesn't come first!

True for all of us!

 

[Douggg]

Fulfilled in the 1st century

I didn't see anything in the commentary in your post - citing the meaning of "the tribulation of those days", Matthew 24:29.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

I agree the person shows up on the white horse before he is revealed (as the man of sin) and before the AoD.
okay, you hold the belief not the leader of the EU, but the U.N.


Either that or something along those lines, in your U.N view. It remains to be seen.

The power structure I think will be UN the collapse of the current economic system will altar political systems too. he will not be in a position that currently exists but one that will use the existing structure and emerge after the collapse/

 

[Douggg]

The power structure I think will be UN the collapse of the current economic system will altar political systems too. he will not be in a position that currently exists but one that will use the existing structure and emerge after the collapse/

The nations of the world are in debt to the central banks in a giant debt bubble. When that pops, then who knows all of the ramifications.

 

[Dave L]

Background Matthew 24:29 previews the first verses of the sixth seal. Matthew 24:29 > Revelation 6:12-14.

Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

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"Immediately after the tribulation of those days" What that means is after all of the trumpet judgements and five of the bowls of God's wrath. Why doesn't it say "the great tribulation" instead of tribulation? After all Jesus had a few verses earlier spoke about the great tribulation.

Here's the reason....

The "great tribulation" contains all of the trumpet judgements and all of the bowls of God's wrath.

The tribulation is the great tribulation short of two bowls. Why so? Because the sixth and seventh bowls of God's wrath in Revelation 16 follow the Sixth Seal, the Sign of the Son of man in heaven (Matthew 24:30a).

Which is why it doesn't say "after the great tribulation of those days" in Matthew 24:29. Please follow along of why the two bowls are not included in the "tribulation of those days"......

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Okay, first we have to ask... Why isn't the sixth seal the very same day that Jesus descends to earth in Revelation 19? After all, we have an identical matches of terms with Revelation 16:15 and Revelation 19:17-18.

Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Revelation 19: 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

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Then in Revelation 19:19 we read.....19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

So what happens that in the sixth seal of hiding in caves - to the Revelation 19:19 of gathered together to make war on Jesus ?

The answer is in Revelation 16:13-16. Please read it. The kings of the earth come out of hiding, and are convinced to make war on Jesus.

Summary: The sixth seal takes place. Then Revelation 16:13-16, the gathering of the armies at Armageddon, the sixth bowl. Followed by the seventh bowl of God's wrath. Followed by the coming of the Son of Man in the clouds of heaven in great power and glory in Revelation 19:11-21.

After "the tribulation of those days" is the sixth seal, the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. Then the sixth bowl of God's wrath, which the armies gather at Armageddon* in preparation to make war of Jesus. Followed by the seventh bowl of God's wrath. Followed by Jesus's return down to earth to destroy those armies, cast the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire, destroy the image of the beast, and bind Satan in chains and cast him into the bottomless pit - ending the Great Tribulation.

* during the 45 days shown below on my chart.

View attachment 261340

I f you read Matthew 24 literally, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days" refers to Christian tribulation spanning the entire New Covenant era leading up to the end of the world. It is not the great Jewish tribulation Jesus warns the Apostles to avoid, which happened in AD 70.

 

[Douggg]

I f you read Matthew 24 literally, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days" refers to Christian tribulation spanning the entire New Covenant era leading up to the end of the world. It is not the great Jewish tribulation Jesus warns the Apostles to avoid, which happened in AD 70.

Dave, you say that Matthew 24:29 refers to Christian "tribulation" (spanning thousands of years), and not (what you are calling) the great "Jewish" tribulation which happen in 70 AD.

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days" - where are "those days" found in the previous verses, to know what Matthew 24:29 is referring to?

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In Revelation 3:10, Jesus promises to keep the church of Philedephia.....
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

 

[Dave L]

Dave, you say that Matthew 24:29 refers to Christian "tribulation" (spanning thousands of years), and not (what you are calling) the great "Jewish" tribulation which happen in 70 AD.

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days" - where are "those days" found in the previous verses, to know what Matthew 24:29 is referring to?

____________________________________________________

In Revelation 3:10, Jesus promises to keep the church of Philedephia.....
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Dave, you say that Matthew 24:29 refers to Christian "tribulation" (spanning thousands of years), and not (what you are calling) the great "Jewish" tribulation which happen in 70 AD.

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days" - where are "those days" found in the previous verses, to know what Matthew 24:29 is referring to?

____________________________________________________

In Revelation 3:10, Jesus promises to keep the church of Philedephia.....
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Third division; After Jerusalem's destruction (Jewish Great Tribulation). Christian focus continues until the end. Matthew 24:23–28

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe him.

Fourth division; the final days 29-51

““Immediately after the suffering of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven will be shaken.

 

[Douggg]

Third division; After Jerusalem's destruction (Jewish Great Tribulation). Christian focus continues until the end. Matthew 24:23–28

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe him.

Fourth division; the final days 29-51

““Immediately after the suffering of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven will be shaken.

Dave, you are avoiding the question. What verse in Matthew 24, preceding Matthew 24:29 has "those days" in it? Please do a copy and paste.

 

[Dave L]

Dave, you are avoiding the question. What verse in Matthew 24, preceding Matthew 24:29 has "those days" in it? Please do a copy and paste.

Read it again, it's all there.
Third division; After Jerusalem's destruction (Jewish Great Tribulation). Christian focus continues until the end. Matthew 24:23–28

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe him.

Fourth division; the final days 29-51

““Immediately after the suffering of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven will be shaken.

 

[Douggg]

Read it again, it's all there.
Third division; After Jerusalem's destruction (Jewish Great Tribulation). Christian focus continues until the end. Matthew 24:23–28

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe him.

Fourth division; the final days 29-51

““Immediately after the suffering of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven will be shaken.

I guess my question was too much for you.

Dave, have you ever heard of the expression "pulling hen's teeth"?

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Verse 29 is referring to those days of the great tribulation, at the end of it. The tribulation of those days in verse 29 is the great tribulation, but not including the last two bowls of God's wrath.

The time of the great tribulation is still future of us, but not distant future.

 

[Dave L]

Dave, have you ever heard of the expression "pulling hen's teeth"?

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Verse 29 is referring to those days of the great tribulation, at the end of it. The tribulation of those days in verse 29 is the great tribulation, but not including the last two bowls of God's wrath.

The time of the great tribulation is still future of us, but not distant future.

Here's the challenge. Read Matthew 24 literally without any metaphors or symbolism. You will then see what I'm talking about.

 

[Douggg]

Here's the challenge. Read Matthew 24 literally without any metaphors or symbolism. You will then see what I'm talking about.

Dave, why don't you start a new thread, copying and pasting all of Matthew 24 verses that have the metaphors and symbolism, you are referring to - to be ignored for the sake of your view? And make your case of various divisions of Matthew 24.

Because you are going off on a tangent that this thread is not intended for, nor suitable for.

 

[Dave L]

Dave, why don't you start a new thread, copying and pasting all of Matthew 24 verses that have the metaphors and symbolism, you are referring to - to be ignored for the sake of your view? And make your case of various divisions of Matthew 24.

Because you are going off on a tangent that this thread is not intended for, nor suitable for.

I have a thread Does Matthew 24 Recapitulate?

 

[parousia70]

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days"

How Long Is "Immediately" to God?

100 years?
50?
10?

If 1000 years is as a Day to God, then 10 years is is about 24 minutes to God.

Would 24 minutes count as Immediately to God?

What about 5 years... that would be 12 Minutes to God...

If these events began exactly 12 minutes after the tribulation of those days, would you say that fulfilled the requirement of "immediately"?
I would.

So, I would say 5 years after the tribulation of those days certainly qualifies as Immediately in Gods view of Time.

 

[Douggg]

I have a thread Does Matthew 24 Recapitulate?

Dave, I made a post in your thread, with what I think are the divisions compared to yours.

 

[Dave L]

Dave, I made a post in your thread, with what I think are the divisions compared to yours.

If you are a futurist, you will read it accordingly. But if you just read it, it pans out as I divided it.

 

[tranquil]

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days" What that means is after all of the trumpet judgements and five of the bowls of God's wrath. Why doesn't it say "the great tribulation" instead of tribulation? After all Jesus had a few verses earlier spoke about the great tribulation.

Here's the reason....

The "great tribulation" contains all of the trumpet judgements and all of the bowls of God's wrath.

The tribulation is the great tribulation short of two bowls. Why so? Because the sixth and seventh bowls of God's wrath in Revelation 16 follow the Sixth Seal, the Sign of the Son of man in heaven (Matthew 24:30a).

Which is why it doesn't say "after the great tribulation of those days" in Matthew 24:29. Please follow along of why the two bowls are not included in the "tribulation of those days"......

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You are making things way too complicated.

All 7 trumpets & 7 bowls are the 'great tribulation'.

The 'tribulation of those days' does not equal all 7 trumpets & bowls, as you say, but we don't have to go into sophisticated contortions to figure this out. We don't have to rearrange the sequence of seals, trumpets, & bowls as you are doing.

Matt 24
15“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

23Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand. 26So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

There is the abomination (verse 15)
then the great tribulation starts (at the 6th Seal) (verse 21)
then false christs arise (verse 23)
After the tribulation of the false christs, then the elect are gathered (verse 29-31)
Where does the 'gathering' occur in Revelation? At the 7th Seal & at the end of the 6th Trumpet/ 2nd woe.

there are 2 gatherings, 2 signs of the son of man: after the 6th Seal events/ Trumpets 1-4 events (occurring Feb 11, 2021 & the 2nd one Aug 27, 2024 through May 10, 2025 (266 days pregnancy term)

These gatherings are how Christians escape the 'great tribulation'.

see Revelation 2:20-23

​

Immediately after the great tribulation occurring in the Seals, then the sun, moon darkened, stars fall etc.

Where does this occur? "the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken"

These events happen at the 6th Seal (Revelation 6:12-14).

"Immediately after these events" then people are gathered at the 7th Seal 144,000 & 'great multitude'.​

Where does this occur? "the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken"

These events occur at Trumpets 1-4. The 'stars' are the 'burning mtn' & Wormwood. Powers of heavens shaken at the 1st & 4th Trumpet.
Revelation 8

7The first angel blew his trumpet, and there followed hail and fire, mixed with blood, and these were thrown upon the earth. And a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.

8The second angel blew his trumpet, and something like a great mountain, burning with fire, was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. 9A third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

10The third angel blew his trumpet, and a great star fell from heaven, blazing like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. 11The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many people died from the water, because it had been made bitter.

12The fourth angel blew his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, and a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of their light might be darkened, and a third of the day might be kept from shining, and likewise a third of the night.​

Where does this occur? "the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken"

Revelation 12

4His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it. 5She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rulea all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, 6and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days.

7Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.​

After Satan is thrown out of heaven, then the 2 witnesses are gathered at the start of the 7th Trumpet. (and this 7th Trumpet starts at the end of the 266 day / end of the 'birth' term of Revelation 12:5.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Background Matthew 24:29 previews the first verses of the sixth seal. Matthew 24:29 > Revelation 6:12-14.

Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

______________________________________________________________________

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days" What that means is after all of the trumpet judgements and five of the bowls of God's wrath. Why doesn't it say "the great tribulation" instead of tribulation? After all Jesus had a few verses earlier spoke about the great tribulation.

Here's the reason....

The "great tribulation" contains all of the trumpet judgements and all of the bowls of God's wrath.

The tribulation is the great tribulation short of two bowls. Why so? Because the sixth and seventh bowls of God's wrath in Revelation 16 follow the Sixth Seal, the Sign of the Son of man in heaven (Matthew 24:30a).

Which is why it doesn't say "after the great tribulation of those days" in Matthew 24:29. Please follow along of why the two bowls are not included in the "tribulation of those days"......

______________________________________________________________________

Okay, first we have to ask... Why isn't the sixth seal the very same day that Jesus descends to earth in Revelation 19? After all, we have an identical matches of terms with Revelation 16:15 and Revelation 19:17-18.

Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Revelation 19: 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

________________________________________________________________

Then in Revelation 19:19 we read.....19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

So what happens that in the sixth seal of hiding in caves - to the Revelation 19:19 of gathered together to make war on Jesus ?

The answer is in Revelation 16:13-16. Please read it. The kings of the earth come out of hiding, and are convinced to make war on Jesus.

Summary: The sixth seal takes place. Then Revelation 16:13-16, the gathering of the armies at Armageddon, the sixth bowl. Followed by the seventh bowl of God's wrath. Followed by the coming of the Son of Man in the clouds of heaven in great power and glory in Revelation 19:11-21.

After "the tribulation of those days" is the sixth seal, the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. Then the sixth bowl of God's wrath, which the armies gather at Armageddon* in preparation to make war of Jesus. Followed by the seventh bowl of God's wrath. Followed by Jesus's return down to earth to destroy those armies, cast the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire, destroy the image of the beast, and bind Satan in chains and cast him into the bottomless pit - ending the Great Tribulation.

* during the 45 days shown below on my chart.

View attachment 261340

Matthew 24:29 is describing the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad. The apocalyptic reference is typical of God's judgment on Israel. You can read it over and over in the Old Testament. This is no different.
Blessings

 

[Douggg]

There is the abomination (verse 15)
then the great tribulation starts (at the 6th Seal) (verse 21)

Where in Revelation 6, the 6th seal verses are you reading anything about the Abomination of Desolation in those verses?

 

[Douggg]

Matthew 24:29 is describing the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad. The apocalyptic reference is typical of God's judgment on Israel. You can read it over and over in the Old Testament. This is no different.
Blessings

Hi Maria,

These things did not happen in 70 AD. They are end times events at the end of the great tribulation.

Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.