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Featured the tribulation of those days, Matthew 24:29

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Douggg, Aug 18, 2019.

  1. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Background Matthew 24:29 previews the first verses of the sixth seal. Matthew 24:29 > Revelation 6:12-14.

    Matthew 24: 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

    ______________________________________________________________________

    "Immediately after the tribulation of those days" What that means is after all of the trumpet judgements and five of the bowls of God's wrath. Why doesn't it say "the great tribulation" instead of tribulation? After all Jesus had a few verses earlier spoke about the great tribulation.

    Here's the reason....

    The "great tribulation" contains all of the trumpet judgements and all of the bowls of God's wrath.

    The tribulation is the great tribulation short of two bowls. Why so? Because the sixth and seventh bowls of God's wrath in Revelation 16 follow the Sixth Seal, the Sign of the Son of man in heaven (Matthew 24:30a).

    Which is why it doesn't say "after the great tribulation of those days" in Matthew 24:29. Please follow along of why the two bowls are not included in the "tribulation of those days"......

    ______________________________________________________________________

    Okay, first we have to ask... Why isn't the sixth seal the very same day that Jesus descends to earth in Revelation 19? After all, we have an identical matches of terms with Revelation 16:15 and Revelation 19:17-18.

    Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

    Revelation 19: 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

    ________________________________________________________________

    Then in Revelation 19:19 we read.....19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

    So what happens that in the sixth seal of hiding in caves - to the Revelation 19:19 of gathered together to make war on Jesus ?

    The answer is in Revelation 16:13-16. Please read it. The kings of the earth come out of hiding, and are convinced to make war on Jesus.

    Summary: The sixth seal takes place. Then Revelation 16:13-16, the gathering of the armies at Armageddon, the sixth bowl. Followed by the seventh bowl of God's wrath. Followed by the coming of the Son of Man in the clouds of heaven in great power and glory in Revelation 19:11-21.

    After "the tribulation of those days" is the sixth seal, the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. Then the sixth bowl of God's wrath, which the armies gather at Armageddon* in preparation to make war of Jesus. Followed by the seventh bowl of God's wrath. Followed by Jesus's return down to earth to destroy those armies, cast the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire, destroy the image of the beast, and bind Satan in chains and cast him into the bottomless pit - ending the Great Tribulation.

    * during the 45 days shown below on my chart.

    upload_2019-8-20_20-45-3.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
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  2. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Interesting information, but I won't be around to witness these events.
     
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I assume you are referring to the rapture, Oscarr. Which could happen anytime, including before the 7 years begin. But if not by then, for sure before the transgression of desolation act - which will trigger the Day of the Lord.
     
  4. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Well, I am 71 years old this year, and every extra day is a bonus for me. It won't be too long before I am absent from the body and present with the Lord, so I will be in Paradise, awaiting the second coming, and when He comes I will be among the tens of thousands of His saints who will be with him.
     
  5. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Oscarr, I am 70 years old. I was born in 1948. Jesus is coming and His reward is with Him. It is good to have a brother in Christ on the forum, the same age.

    1Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

    11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
  6. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    When I was younger, I was all into the Pentecostal side of things, and believed that we should strive to enter into the deeper spiritual life in the Spirit. But as my future in the world diminishes, then a lot of that has fallen away, and I have found myself getting right back to the basics, ie: trusting and being content in the finished work of Christ. This is because I have learned that my only qualification for getting to heaven is that Jesus died on the cross for me, and rose again to show that in the same way He rose from the dead to glory, so will I when the time comes. So I have worked me on getting my salvation and election sure and putting the other "deeper" spiritual stuff to one side because those things are just for this life, and making sure that I am well in the shadow of the cross is preparing me for eternity.

    When we get into the presence of the Lord in eternity, we won't need churches, tongues, prophecy, theological degrees, leadership roles, and all the other trappings of the Christian religious life. All those things are fading away for me, but fellowship with the Lord is becoming stronger and I am much more content and peaceful in myself as I trust in just the promises in His Word for me.
     
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I couldn't agree with you more.
     
  8. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /bvm
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
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  9. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
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  10. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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  11. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    I am 73, and we are all brothers in Christ. But I cannot agree with much you write. Of course if you were writing about salvation, we would agree on more things!
     
  12. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Oscarr, don't be so sure! Are you planning to go tonight? You are just a "spring chicken" to God!
     
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The seals were first opened by Christ during the first century.
    They were opened one at a time, and then John was commanded to "Come and see".

    John then recorded what was revealed after the seal was removed by Christ.


    Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
    Rev 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

    Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
    Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

    .
     
  14. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    One day I'll be crossing the road from life to eternity if the Rapture doesn't come first! :)
     
  15. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Opened, but not taken place.
     
  16. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    The rider on the white horse comes before the seals are open and if he is the same as the prince to come in Dan 9 he is part of the forming of the covenant with the many. Perhaps many are part of the covenant and he is still not revealed until he survive the mortal wound and commits the abomination of desolation
     
  17. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Brian, I highlighted part of your text.

    The person is revealed as the man of sin when he commits the transgression of desolation act (the 2Thessalonians2:4 act). Up to that point the Jews, Israel, will be thinking he is the messiah, but will actually be the Antichrist.


    upload_2019-8-19_8-34-3.jpeg
     
  18. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    My point is if he is revealed at the AoD he was already present for the enforcing the covenant with the many and showed up on the white horse prior to the Aod. I believe the man of sin in 2 Thess is the Beast of Rev 13 and the rider on the white horse as well as the pompous 1 in Dan 7 and the one who confirms the covenant with the many. I do not agree that Europe will take over as Europe will be one of 10 heads. The UN is the entity for global government and a sort of super security counsel of 10 regional leaders will emerge. Look up the UN earth charter and see they built an ark of the covenant for it and carried it on poles and put it in the UN building. They have the messianic verse they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks and they shall learn war no more right outside the UN building too. The dollar has been the worlds reserve currency since WW2. The economic collapse coming in Rev 6 will bring a rebuilding of the world structure and the IMF and world bank are already in position to be the central banks of the world. The teaching that the US would collapse isolated an Europe would rise are proving to be wrong. In fact all nations will go through a bankruptcy of some sort and out of the chaos the new order will emerge.
     
  19. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    The SEVEN SEALS of Revelation study
    Prologue
    Revelation 5
    1 And I saw a Scroll on the right *hand* of Him Who is sitting upon the Throne, having been written in *inside and back and having been sealed to seven Seals
    2 And I saw a strong Messenger heralding in a great voice "who is worthy to open up the Scroll and to loose the Seals of it?"
    3 And no one was able in the heaven, neither upon the land, nor under the land, to open up the Scroll nor to behold It.
    4 And I wept much, than no one yet was found worthy to open up [*and to read] the Scroll, nor to be beholding It.
    5 And one of the Elders is saying to me "no be weeping! behold! the Lion conquers, the One out of the Tribe of Judah, the Root of David, to open up the Scroll and to loose It's seven Seals.
    6 And I looked and behold! in midst of the Throne and of the four Living Ones and in midst of the Elders, a Lambkin having stood, as having been slaughtered.
    Having seven Horns and seven Eyes, which are being the seven Spirits of the GOD, having been commissioned into the entire land.
    7 And It came and took the S out of the right *hand of the One sitting on the Throne,
    8 And when It took the Scroll, the four Living Ones and the twenty four Elders fall before the Lambkin, each having harps and golden Bowls/Vials brimming/replete of incenses, which are being the prayers of the Saints.
    9 and they are singing a new Song saying "Worthy art Thou to be taking the Scroll and to open up the Seals of It, that Thou wast slaughtered and did purchase/redeem us to the GOD in Thy blood, out of every Tribe and Tongue and People and Nation.
    10 and Thou make them to the GOD of us *Kings[Kingdom of] and Priests/Priesthood and they shall be reigning upon the land."
    11 And I looked and I hear as a sound of many Messengers round the Throne, and of the Living Ones and of the Elders.
    And was the number of them myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands,12 saying to a great voice "Worthy is being the Lambkin, the One having been slaughtered, to be receiving the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing".
    13 And every creature the in the heaven and upon the land and under the land, and upon the sea and all the in them, and I hear saying to Him sitting upon the Throne and to the Lambkin "the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might into the ages of the ages". 14 And the four Living Ones said "Amen!" And the twenty-four Elders fall and worship *before Him who is living to the ages of the ages*.
    =====================================
    Revelation 6 and the 7 Seals

    The First Seal: Rider on a White Horse

    1 And I saw when the Lambkin opens up one out of the seven Seals and I hear one out of the four Living Ones saying as sound of thunder "be coming!
    2 And I looked and behold! a white Horse, and the One sitting on it is having a bow and there was given to Him a crown,
    and He came forth conquering and that He should be conquering.

    The Second Seal: War

    3 And when It opens up the second Seal, I hear the second Living One saying " be coming"!
    4 And came forth another Horse,fiery-red and to Him sitting on it was giving to be taking the Peace out of the land, and that one another they should be slaying.
    And there was given to Him a great Sword.

    The Third Seal: Famine

    5 And when It opens up the third Seal, I hear of the third Living One saying "be coming!
    And I looked and behold! a black Horse and Him sitting on it having a Yoke in His hand.
    6 And I hear a voice in midst of the four Living Ones saying, "A measure of wheat for a denary and three measures of barley for a denary, and the oil and the wine no thou should be injuring".

    The Fourth Seal: Death

    7 And when It opens up the fourth Seal, I hear a voice of the fourth Living One saying "be coming!’"
    8 And I looked and behold! a pale Horse and Him sitting on it, a name to him the Death and the Hades followed Him.
    And was given to them authority over the fourth of the land, to kill in sword, and in famine and in death and by the beasts of the land.

    The Fifth Seal: Martyrs under the Altar

    9 And when It opens up the fifth Seal, I saw under the Altar the souls of Those slaughtered because of the word of the GOD, and because of the Testimony which they held.
    10 And They cry a great voice saying "till when O Master/Owner, the Holy and the True, not Thou are judging and and avenging Our blood out of those dwelling upon the land?"
    11 And was given to each of Them a White Robe and was declared to Them that they should be resting still little time, till should be fulfilling also their fellow bondservants and their brethren, those being about to being killed as also they.

    The Sixth Seal: Sun, Moon and Stars

    12 And I saw when It opens up the sixth Seal and became a great earthquake and the Sun became black as hairy sackcloth, and the whole Moon became as blood, 13 and the Stars of the heaven fall to the land, as a fig-tree casting it's shriveled figs by a great wind being shaken.
    14 And the heaven coils as a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island out of their places were moved. 15 And the Kings of the land, and the greatest, and the rich, and the Chiefs of thousands, and the strong and every slave and every free one, hide themselves into the caves and into the rocks of the mountains.
    16 And they are saying to the mountains and to the rocks "be falling upon us! and hide us! from Face of Him sitting on the throne and from the wrath of the Lambkin.
    17 That came the Day, the great, of Their wrath and who is able to stand?

    The Seventh Seal: Silence in heaven half hour

    Revelation 8
    1 And when It opens up the seventh Seal, became a hush in the heaven as half hour. 2 And I saw the seven Messengers who before the GOD have stood and were given to them seven Trumpets.
    3 and another Messenger came and stood at the Altar, having a golden Censer. And was given to Him many incenses, that He shall be imparting to the prayers of all the Saints on the golden Altar before the Throne. 4 And ascended the smoke of the incenses to the prayers of the Saints out of hand of the Messenger before the GOD. 5 And the Messenger has taken the Censer and cram fills it out of the fire of the Altar and casts it into the land. And became sounds and thunders and lightnings and an earthquake.
    =====================================
    Seals, Trumpets and Bowls/Vials fulfilled on 1st century Jerusalem as prophecied in the OT and NT.
    Amen!

    Francis Gumerlock: The Seven Seals of the Apocalypse: Medieval Texts (2009)

    Peter Auriol (1320)
    (On Revelation 6:2) “Here it should be known that, according to Eusebius, the preaching of the name of Christ was spread abroad throughout the whole world in a short time under the emperors Tiberius, Gaius, and Claudius. For, the aforementioned emperors permitted the apostles and disciples to run to and fro throughout the whole world. There, in the beginning of the fourth chapter, he says that divine providence operated in the mind of Caesar so that he threatened danger to all the accusers of the Christians. In those initial times the word of the gospel ran forth quickly, as if a divinely manifested light, and a ray of the sun breaking forth, were illuminating the whole world with the brightness of heavenly light.
    And the prophecy was fulfilled, Their sound has gone out throughout the whole earth (Ps. 19:4; cf. Rom. 10:18). And throughout the all the cities and all the towns immense multitudes of people were gathered into the churches, as when grain is gathered to the threshing floors in the time of the harvests. Therefore, John saw in the book of divine foreknowledge this free dissemination. And this was designated as the first seal because it was at first closed, and because Christ opened it first. Therefore, it is called the opening of the first seal.”

    “For, the white horse designates the army of the apostles and disciples, who were white in doctrine and in life, like horses running to and fro very quickly. Upon it, Christ was sitting with the weapons of preaching and with the grace of the word, which penetrated them, just as he had promised, saying, Behold, I shall give you a mouth and wisdom, which your adversaries will not be able to contradict (Luke 21:15). And because a crown of victory was given to him, he went forth conquering and to conquer, because he subjugated the world to his faith in the space of a short time, as was said.”(Compendium of the Holy Scriptures, in loc.)
    =====================
    Acts 1 and Revelation 11 Ascending in cloud

    Mat 19:28
    And Jesus said to them, 'Verily I say to you, that ye who did follow me, in the regeneration, when the Son of Man may sit upon a throne of his glory, shall sit -- ye also -- upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel;
    Luk 22:30

    that ye may eat and may drink at my table, in my kingdom, and may sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.'
    ========================================

    Mat 10:2
    Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

    Mar 6:30
    Then the apostles gathered to Jesus and told Him all things, both what they had done and what they had taught.

    Luk 6:13
    And when it was day, He called His disciples to Himself; and from them He chose twelve whom He also named apostles:
    Luk 9:10
    And the apostles, when they had returned, told Him all that they had done. Then He took them and went aside privately into a deserted place belonging to the city called Bethsaida.
    Luk 11:49
    “Therefore the wisdom of God also said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and persecute,'
    Luk 17:5
    And the apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith.”
    Luk 22:14
    When the hour had come, He sat down, and the twelve[fn] apostles with Him.
    Luk 24:10
    It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women with them, who told these things to the apostles.
    =======================
    Commissioning the 12 Apostles

    Acts 1:8
    But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you,
    and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” [Revelation 11:3 Revelation 18:20]

    "apostles" only occurs 8 times in the Gospels and only in Matt, Mar and Luke [5
    Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon
    "apostle" occurs 19 times in 19 verses in the NKJV.
    "apostles" occurs 60 times in 59 verses in the NKJV.
    ============================
    !st century Jerusalem and the Rulers charged with the blood of the Apostles
    The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

    Revelation 18:
    19 and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried<2896>, lamenting<2799>, weeping and mourning<3996>, saying,
    "Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships<4143> in the sea, out of Her preciousness<5094>,
    for to one hour was She was desolated<2049>.
    20 ‘Be making merry<2165> over Her, O heaven, and the Saints, the Apostles and the Prophets,
    that the GOD judges the judgment of ye out of Her!’
    ===================================
     
  20. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I agree the person shows up on the white horse before he is revealed (as the man of sin) and before the AoD.
    okay, you hold the belief not the leader of the EU, but the U.N.

    Either that or something along those lines, in your U.N view. It remains to be seen.
     
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