• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured The Tribulation Calendar to the Millennium.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Marilyn C, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    +155
    Christian
    Married
    I would like to share with you all my thoughts on God`s numbers in His word regarding the tribulation. I will start at the millennium, and proceed backwards. I will do a step at a time so any questions or other thoughts can be discussed.

    I am starting with the thought that the millennium will begin on Israel`s New Year. This will become clearer as we proceed. The Jewish New Year is the month of Nissan. God instructed Moses regarding setting the Jewish Calendar and the mitzvah, (commandment) of sanctifying the new month.

    `This month shall be your beginning of months; it shall be the first month of the year to you.` (Ez. 12: 2)

    This ushered in the first Jewish month and commenced the lunar calendar that the Jews have been following ever since.

    If we look at all the months in the Jewish calendar we see that the month of Adar is the 12th, the last month of the year. It has 29 days in an ordinary year, though it has 30 days during `leap years.` Adar is appended by an additional month called Adar 2 (Second Adar) This occurs approximately every 3 years to align the lunar months with the solar year, ensuring that the holidays fall in the proper seasons.

    Here is a diagram of what a leap year would look like with the two months of Adar.

    upload_2018-2-10_10-12-45.png


    upload_2018-2-10_10-13-12.png

    What are your thoughts? Marilyn.
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,294
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Marilyn, my thoughts are that we cannot know the month when the 7 years begin, assuming that is what you are calling the tribulation.

    Are you referring to the 70th week of Daniel 9?
     
  3. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    +155
    Christian
    Married
    Hi Douggg,

    Thank you for replying to my thread. OK that`s your thoughts however I think God gave the numbers in His word for a reason. Maybe you would like to follow what I present and perhaps point out an error or maybe something you agree on. And yes Daniel`s 70th week.

    Have you any thoughts on the Jewish months and especially the month of Adar?

    regards, Marilyn.
     
  4. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    +155
    Christian
    Married
    The next piece of important information concerns two Jewish festivals - the Passover and the Purim. The Passover always occurs on the 14th of Nissan in the Jewish New year. Then exactly 4 weeks prior to that is the Feast of Purim which occurs on the 15th of Adar.

    The feast of Purim celebrates God`s deliverance of His people, and therefore Adar is considered one of the happiest months of the Jewish New Year. In Jerusalem this Feast is celebrated on the 15th of the month of Adar.

    From that fixed date we can then proceed to look at the numbers the Lord has given for the tribulation and leading to the Millennium.

    upload_2018-2-10_13-38-26.png
     
  5. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    +155
    Christian
    Married
    This next timeline shows two important numbers that God has written in His word concerning the tribulation and the time following that.

    From the Abomination of desolation, (in the temple) to the cleansing of the temple God says there are 1,290 days. (Dan. 12: 11 & 8: 14)

    Then proceeding on from there, God says that -

    `Blessed is he who waits and comes to the 1,335 days.` (Dan. 12: 12)



    Now we can see that 1,290 day + 45 days (30 & 15) = 1,335 days.

    This brings us to the Feast of Purim, the Festival of National Deliverance on the 15th day of Adar 2.


    upload_2018-2-10_15-48-6.png
     
  6. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    +155
    Christian
    Married
    This timeline shows God`s number of 1,260 days which is mentioned a few times in God`s word in reference to the tribulation.

    It is the time when

    • the Gentiles will tread down the holy city, (42 mths 1,260 days. Rev. 11: 2)


    • & when the two witnesses give their testimony, (1,260 days. Rev. 11: 3)


    • & when the anti-Christ is given complete authority and power. (42 mths 1,260days.

      Rev.13: 5)

    Thus we see that -

    1,260 days = when Jesus Returns. (end of anti-Christ`s rule).

    1,260 days + 30 = 1,290 days when the temple is cleansed.

    1,290 + 30 + 15 = 1,335 days. when the people are blessed. (Feast of Purim - national Deliverance on the 15th of Adar 2)


    upload_2018-2-10_16-21-56.png
     
  7. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    +155
    Christian
    Married
    .
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,294
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    The second month of Adar is a leap month and doesn't occure every year. What year to add the Adar II is based on a 19 year cycle. (copy and paste from a Jewish site)......

    The 19-year cycle consists of 12 regular years and 7 leap years (Years #3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17 and 19 of the cycle). So, 12 years of 12 months plus 7 years of 13 months equals 235 months in the 19-year cycle. 5776 was a leap year with two Adars because it was the 19th year of the cycle. The next leap year will be 5779, the third year of the cycle, with two months of Adar in 2019.

    ....okay, Marilyn let's put the spacing in. 3 years (3 to 6), 2 years (6 to8), 3 years (8 to 11), 3 years (11 to 14), 3 years (14 to 17), 2 years (17-19)
    ________________________________________________________________________________

    In bible prophecy, because there is no way to know when the 7 years start (what year and what time of the year) on either the Jewish calendar or the Gregorian calendar - there is no way to know where to place the 30 days make up years (the Adar II's)

    The 7 years have to start before the end of 2030 (parable of the fig tree). But when - it could be 2026 May, 2028 Aug, 2029 Feb - any number of combinations.

    When the Antichrist confirms the covenant for 7 years - then it will be possible to produce a timeline of events to pinpoint the extra leap months on the timeline. Our current 2520 timeline doesn't take those leap months into account, because there is not enough information available.

    During the 7 years, there will be two leaps months, no matter what...okay, maybe three. But never just one. There is always going to be at least two leap months over the course of 7 years.

    So the 2520 day timeline, should actually, overall, be 60 days + 2520 days = 2580 days. If we were trying to apply two leap months. And 90 days +2550 days = 2640 days if we were trying to apply three leap months.

    But guess what? The leap months approach - still doesn't work out to 7 years of 365days/years, which equal 7 x365 = 2555 days.

    Regarding the leap months, for example, if the 7 years begin on the leap month year 6 on the 19 year cycle....

    6 to 8 - 2 years
    8 to 11 - 3 years
    11 to 14 - 3 years

    A total of 8 years - one year too many over the 7 years. So it would only be leap years 6 and 8.

    But let's say the 7 years begin right before year 8. So that would be year 8, then year 11, then year 14. Three leap months over the 7 years in that case.

    Even so, the leap month compensation does not work out to the 365 days - 7 calendar years - because the leap months compensation cycle is based on 19 years. And there is only 7 years in last week.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,294
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Marilyn, there will be TWO leap months, maybe three, over the course of the 7 years. But never just one.

    Marilyn, no matter where the leap months fall during the 7 years. It does not affect that the war in heaven which Satan will be cast down follows the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6.

    Revelation 12, is the foundation in the whole bible for the 7 years.

    12:6 the 1260 days. 12:7-9 the war in heaven. 12:14 the time, times, half times.

    First half - middle - second half

    Nothing regarding the leap months rearranges that order.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  10. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +3,820
    Christian
    Married
    Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

    Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

    Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.


    Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.



    Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


    Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,


    Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
    Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
    Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
    Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)
    Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
    Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
    Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


    Tremendous confusion is produced on this forum by ignoring the differences between the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant of Christ.

    .
     
  11. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    +155
    Christian
    Married
    Hi Douggg,

    Thank you for such a detailed reply. It is so good to discuss with someone who has done some homework and thought through some points. So let`s look at the points.

    1. The double Adar. I wrote that it is `approximately` every 3 years. So we agree there. The dates for the upcoming double Adars according to the Jewish calendar, are -

    • 2019, 2022, 2024, 2027 & 2030

      I agree that the tribulation would have to start before 2030 as you said. (parable of the fig tree) 2.God`s measurement of the 7 years. I thought the same as you, Doug, until I realized 2 important details.
    • a) God`s 7 years are in days.
      b) The Jewish calendar has 29 & 30 day months.
    So let`s look at God`s measurement. 2,520 days = 7 years of 360 days in a year.

    That is a fixed measurement and thus we can count the days on the Jewish calendar to line up with God`s measurement, and not the other way round. I have written out the days of the months on the Jewish calendar from 2020 to 2027.

    If we count all the days from Adar 20th 2020 to the 30th of Shevat 2027 we get 2,520 days. That then leaves the double Adar till the Millennium. This would then encompass the 15th of Adar 2 as the Feast of National Deliverance.

    So it does not matter how many double Adars are in the 7 years for the solar calendar is not the measurement but God`s days - 2,520 days. And they need to be counted in a Jewish calendar.

    upload_2018-2-11_10-36-56.png
     
  12. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    +155
    Christian
    Married
    Hi BABerean2,

    Thank you for your thoughts and concern that I may be getting into bondage with `observing days & months` etc. However as we know that the numbers God has given are for Israel and the nations then it is not about us observing days & months. It is however coming to understand more of God`s purposes for Israel and the nations, since we are NOT in darkness that this day should overtake us as a thief. (1 Thess. 5: 4)

    regards, Marilyn.
     
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,294
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Hi Marilyn,

    Well, a year is one earth's orbit around the the sun. Which during the one orbit there historically have been 365 and a fraction rotations of the earth on it's axis (the north - south pole axis), which we call days.

    The annual monthly calendar(s) divides that one orbit (a year) into twelve months. The Jewish calendar has the make up month system which works on a 19 month cycle because the makeup month sometimes is spaced every third year, and sometimes every two years.
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    The 2520 days is something we calculate. 2520 days is not stated anywhere in the bible.

    We use 2520 days for the seven years because it helps us to put together an understanding of how events fit together. But unless the earth's orbit changes to 360 days - when the actual seven years begin and the events start playing out - there are going to be at least two leaps months affecting the timeline, maybe three.

    Which makes Revelation 12 so important. Because, independent of a calendar, it sets the order of the 1260 days and the time, and half times - as being before and after the war in heaven. The war in heaven is an event. So the timeline, perhaps flow chart would be a better term, pivots on being before that event or after that event. And not when the 7 years begin or end on a calendar.


    The 1260 days and the time, times, half times - represent their own events.

    So we can know where to put all the relative events on the timeline as being in the first half or in the second half.

    Such that for Revelation 11:3, 12:6 those events designated by 1260 days are in the first half.

    And Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:14 those events designated by the time, times, half times are second half.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  14. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    +155
    Christian
    Married

    Hi Doug,

    Good idea to get those details fixed. So this is what I think we would both agree on. Let me know if you think differently.

    So we both agree that the anti-Christ will be given power for -

    • `time, times and half a time.` (Dan. 7: 25 & 12: 7)

    • `for forty-two months` (Rev. 13: 3) (42 x 30 = 1,260)
    We can also note in Dan. 12: 11 that the abomination of Desolation will be cleansed after 1,290 days.

    upload_2018-2-11_14-24-44.png

    regards, Marilyn.
     
  15. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    +155
    Christian
    Married
    Hi Doug,

    Now you said -

    `The 2520 days is something we calculate. 2520 days is not stated anywhere in the bible.`

    Well actually that time can be seen in God`s word & proven in history.

    `Seventy weeks (units of 7 years = 490 years) are determined for your people and for your holy city, to finish the transgression, (national rebellion)......and to anoint the Most Holy. (cleanse the Temple)

    Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there shall be 7 weeks.` (Dan. 9: 24 & 25)

    7 weeks, 7 x 7 = 49 years

    62 weeks, 62 x 7 = 434 years)

    Together 49 + 434 = 483 ( 7 short of 490)



    History shows us that from -

    March 5, 444 BC (Neh. 2: 1 - 5)

    to March 30, 33 A.D. (Zech. 9: 9) Messiah appears as Prince on Palm Sunday, there will be exactly 483 years (of 360 days in a year). The solar calendar reveals 476 years and 25 days. Same measurement but measured different ways -

    God is measuring by 30 day months and thus 360 days in the year, while the solar calendar measures varying days in the month and 365 days (& leap years) in a year.

    So because the first part of the prophecy, (Dan. 9: 24 ff) is measured in 30 day months and 360 days in a year, (God`s measurement) then the last week, (unit of 7 years) is of 360 days in a year x 7 = 2,520 days.

    The Jewish 29 & 30 days and leap year & the solar calendar ALL have to fit within God`s measurement. Count out the 2,520 days on either calendar and you will get the same result. For it concerns DAYS & not matter how you count it, days are days.

    Take your time to process the two posts, regards, Marilyn.
     
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,294
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Marilyn, I base everything on Revelation 12. The 1260 days references as before the war in heaven and the time, times, half times references as after the war in heaven.

    The seven years, thus, would look like this:

    l.......1260 days.......l...3.5 days.....l......42 months (containing the time, times half times).........l

    The 42 months is slightly less than 1260 days to account for the 3.5 days. The beast rules the earth for 1256.5 days without being hampered by the two witnesses who ascend to heaven. The 1256.6 days is represented by the expression 42 months, a little less than the 1260 days. Otherwise, it would say 1260 days in Revelation 13:5 and Revelation 12:2.

    Marilyn, Revelation 12:2 says 42 months. Then in the very next verse Revelation 12:3 says 1260 days. That is because the 42 months doesn't exactly equal 1260 days. The all too common tendency though is to convert the 42 months into 1260 days.

    If a person starts calculating 42 months x 30 days is 1260 days - it negates why both verses are not expressed as 1260 days.

    ______________________________________________________________

    The time, times, half times is slightly less than the 42 months ( itself 1256.5 days) to account for the amount of earth time that passes as the war in heaven takes place.

    Which is why 42 months is not used in Revelation 12:14. And why it doesn't say 1260 days in Revelation 12:14. Because the time, times, half times is slightly less than both.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    The 1290 days is not associated with the cleansing of the temple in my opinion. But informs that 1290 days from when the AoD is set up to be worshiped, the revealing of Jesus to the world, the sign of the Son of Man in heaven takes place. As described in the sixth seal.

    There is nothing actually in Daniel 12:11 stating tEdithe cleansing of the temple. It just says that there are 1290 days from the time the daily sacrifice is taken away and the AoD setup. It doesn't say what takes place 1290 days from that time.

    Likewise, it doesn't say what takes place 1335 days after the daily sacrifice is taken away and the AoD setup.

    We have to figure both. And to figure both, it could not be determined in Daniel's days, because the information to figure both is in Revelation.

    l........day 1185 Aod setup........ 1290 days.........Sign of the Son of Man.......45 days....gathering at Armageddon.....l Jesus returns
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  17. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +3,820
    Christian
    Married
    Which Israel was James talking about in the passage below?

    Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
    Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
    Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

    The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8 destroys the Two Peoples of God doctrine.

    There is no future purpose for "Israel" outside of the New Covenant Church.




    .
     
  18. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,294
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    BAB2, does the church currently keep the feast of tabernacles? It seems to me like everyone is going to acknowledge Israel (separate from being the church) which came out of Egyptian bondage.

    Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    The Roman Catholic doctrine says there is no salvation outside of the church. The bible says there is no salvation outside of Jesus.

    It seems to me like you are going the Roman Catholic route.
     
  19. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +3,820
    Christian
    Married
    The New Covenant Church is made up of those indiduals who belong to Christ through faith. It is not led by a pope. Christ is the tabernacle in the New Covenant. We celebrate the Lord's Supper monthly at my church body. It is the feast of tabernacles in the New Covenant.
     
  20. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,294
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    The feast of tabernacles is one of the holy days established by the Mt. Sinai covenant. It is completely different from the Lord's Supper.

    You are taking issue with there being two futures for the church and Israel. Yet Israel in Zechariah 14 will be keeping the feast of tabernacles. So it appears to me that you are wrong.

    Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    There is only one people as far as the Kingdom of Heaven, the Kingdom of God. But of earthly kingdoms, Israel is a kingdom, different than say Egypt.

    Only one way to have eternal life, and that is by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, his death and resurrection.
     
Loading...