The Trap of Conservative Politics

[IWalkAlone]

Actually the white supremacists and MAGA people did more than just riot and burn. They actually killed police officers. But the MAGA insurrectionists weren't trying for a secession, they were trying to overthrow a legal election to put the loser back in power.

As you know, we don't know every one of the rioters who did this, but we do know that many of them were MAGA people, trying to put the blame on BLM, while you can't find even one case of a BLM member doing any of that.

Which is really all we need to know at this point. "One or two billion dollars" sounds like an incredibly inaccurate guess. Can you show us some actual evidence that they did that?

We know that when an Trump official started in on that deception, Gen. Milley told him to shut up; there were no cities burning. There just weren't enough of your guys to pull it off, much less blame it on BLM.

that's not true. Trump rioters never killed anyone. People were murdered at BLM riots though. Are you saying they were killed by MAGA folks? Prove it

 

[Albion]

Actually the white supremacists and MAGA people did more than just riot and burn. They actually killed police officers.

Throw in some aliens from outer space, plus a few flamethrowers that burned down most of the Capitol building, and add more fictions like the ones you served up here.

Then you'll really have a tale to tell. It won't convince anyone who wasn't asleep for the whole of 2020 and 2021, but it'll be colorful.

 

[The Barbarian]

Actually the white supremacists and MAGA people did more than just riot and burn. They actually killed police officers.

Throw in some aliens from outer space, plus a few flamethrowers that burned down most of the Capitol building, and add more fictions like the ones you served up here.

Well, that's a testable assumption. Let's take a look...

Far-right “Boogaloo boy” killed officer after using Black Lives Matter protest as cover: prosecutors
“Boogaloo boy” killed officer, used BLM protest as cover: prosecutors

FBI: Far-Right Extremist Posed As BLM Protester, Fired On Minneapolis Police Precinct
The alleged gunman, a member of the Boogaloo Bois, shouted "Justice for Floyd" and helped set the building on fire, according to a federal complaint.
FBI: Far-Right Extremist Posed As BLM Protester, Fired On Minneapolis Police Precinct

Man who helped ignite George Floyd riots identified as white supremacist: Police
Man who helped ignite George Floyd riots identified as white supremacist: Police

Police: Richmond riots instigated by white supremacists disguised as Black Lives Matter
Police: Richmond riots instigated by white supremacists disguised as Black Lives Matter

There's more. How much more would you like to see? It might have seemed like a good idea at the time, but they got caught. Repeatedly. Trump and the MAGA extremists tried to peddle the story that the insurrection was all Antifa people, too.

President Donald Trump on Monday privately blamed “antifa people” for the violent riots and deadly attack on the U.S. Capitol last Wednesday, Axios reported, despite the FBI confirming there is no evidence that antifa activists were involved
Trump Still Falsely Blaming Antifa—But Allies Now Pushing Back, Report Says

The MAGA guys aren't as smart as they think they are. Americans aren't as dumb as Trump and company hoped they were.

 

[IWalkAlone]

Actually the white supremacists and MAGA people did more than just riot and burn. They actually killed police officers.



Well, that's a testable assumption. Let's take a look...

Far-right “Boogaloo boy” killed officer after using Black Lives Matter protest as cover: prosecutors
“Boogaloo boy” killed officer, used BLM protest as cover: prosecutors

FBI: Far-Right Extremist Posed As BLM Protester, Fired On Minneapolis Police Precinct
The alleged gunman, a member of the Boogaloo Bois, shouted "Justice for Floyd" and helped set the building on fire, according to a federal complaint.
FBI: Far-Right Extremist Posed As BLM Protester, Fired On Minneapolis Police Precinct

Man who helped ignite George Floyd riots identified as white supremacist: Police
Man who helped ignite George Floyd riots identified as white supremacist: Police

Police: Richmond riots instigated by white supremacists disguised as Black Lives Matter
Police: Richmond riots instigated by white supremacists disguised as Black Lives Matter

There's more. How much more would you like to see? It might have seemed like a good idea at the time, but they got caught. Repeatedly. Trump and the MAGA extremists tried to peddle the story that the insurrection was all Antifa people, too.

The MAGA guys aren't as smart a they think they are. Americans aren't as dumb as Trump and company hoped they were.

Are you claiming that people who were arrested for rioting, who are mostly black, are white supremacists?

 

[Albion]

Actually the white supremacists and MAGA people did more than just riot and burn. They actually killed police officers.

Don't try to smear 70 million plus "MAGA guys" with the mention of a handful of extremists hardly anyone has ever heard of.

In addition, and although you spoke of a "testable assumption," you failed that test in no uncertain terms. You gave us four sources for your claims, but there was not a single mention in any of them of any "MAGA guys!"

 

[IWalkAlone]

Don't try to smear 70 million plus "MAGA guys" with the mention of a handful of extremists hardly anyone has ever heard of.

In addition, and although you spoke of a "testable assumption," you failed that test in no uncertain terms. You gave us four sources for your claims, but there was not a single mention in any of them of any "MAGA guys!"

Exactly. Thats like saying all democrats who protested are arsonists, killers and theives

 

[Albion]

Exactly. Thats like saying all democrats who protested are arsonists, killers and theives

Yes, but it's worse than that! What you are pointing to is the smearing of a whole group by talking as though all the members are identical to a tiny number of extremists in their midst. That's unfair, you are correct. However, what he was trying to do here was sell the idea that "MAGA guys" are part of a White Supremacist movement. In addition to being completely different in values, they are not in the same grouping!

Although some far-left publications were presented in that post as evidence, not one of these backed up the allegation in any way. There was no mention of any MAGA in any of the four sources presented to us.

 

[The Barbarian]

Don't try to smear 70 million plus "MAGA guys" with the mention of a handful of extremists hardly anyone has ever heard of.

And yet you're ready to smear BLM without any evidence whatever of any BLM member rioting. I'm just pointing out that there are many examples of MAGA people attacking/killing police, rioting, vandalizing, and so on. And you're still unable to come up with one BLM member doing that.

Do you think no one noticed?

 

[IWalkAlone]

Yes, but it's worse than that! What you are pointing to is the smearing of a whole group by talking as though all the members are identical to a tiny number of extremists in their midst. That's unfair, you are correct. However, what he was trying to do here was sell the idea that "MAGA guys" are part of a White Supremacist movement. In addition to being completely different in values, they are not in the same grouping!

Although some far-left publications were presented in that post as evidence, not one of these backed up the allegation in any way. There was no mention of any MAGA in any of the four sources presented to us.

MAGA are not racist. Liberals who say otherwise are ignorant.

 

[The Barbarian]

MAGA are not racist.

Well, that's a testable claim...

New nationwide survey shows MAGA supporters’ beliefs
Highlights of the findings include:

• Nearly all (98%) of respondents said they believe Trump’s election fraud claims and distrust the actual results of the presidential election;
• About 90% said voting “shouldn’t be easier”
• More than two-thirds said Trump bears no responsibility for the events of Jan. 6 – roughly the same percentage that laid the blame on antifa
• At least 90% said Trump was honest about COVID-19, and that state and local government restrictions related to the pandemic should be loosened
• Almost all said they were concerned that “forces are changing our country for the worse” and “the American way of life is disappearing”

The findings related to “difference”– race, gender and immigration status — provide an additional lens through which to view the MAGA movement, Parker said.


On race, significant majorities of respondents agreed with statements like “Black people should work their way up like other minorities” and “Black people would be as well off as white people if they tried.” Along the same lines, a majority disagreed with statements such as “Slavery/discrimination made working up difficult for Black people” and “Black people have gotten less than they deserve.”
New nationwide survey shows MAGA supporters’ beliefs about the pandemic, the election and the insurrection

 

[IWalkAlone]

Well, that's a testable claim...

New nationwide survey shows MAGA supporters’ beliefs
Highlights of the findings include:

• Nearly all (98%) of respondents said they believe Trump’s election fraud claims and distrust the actual results of the presidential election;
• About 90% said voting “shouldn’t be easier”
• More than two-thirds said Trump bears no responsibility for the events of Jan. 6 – roughly the same percentage that laid the blame on antifa
• At least 90% said Trump was honest about COVID-19, and that state and local government restrictions related to the pandemic should be loosened
• Almost all said they were concerned that “forces are changing our country for the worse” and “the American way of life is disappearing”

The findings related to “difference”– race, gender and immigration status — provide an additional lens through which to view the MAGA movement, Parker said.


On race, significant majorities of respondents agreed with statements like “Black people should work their way up like other minorities” and “Black people would be as well off as white people if they tried.” Along the same lines, a majority disagreed with statements such as “Slavery/discrimination made working up difficult for Black people” and “Black people have gotten less than they deserve.”
New nationwide survey shows MAGA supporters’ beliefs about the pandemic, the election and the insurrection

So all Republicans supporting Trump are racist? Lol You actually believe that? You drank too much democrat kool aid. You do realize democrats have racists in their ranks?

 

[The Barbarian]

So all Republicans supporting Trump are racist?

Didn't you read the survey? Part of the problem for you, is you don't seem to read very carefully.

Lol You actually believe that?

Since the survey only found that a majority of Trump supporters express racist ideas, why would you think I believed otherwise? You drank too much MAGA kool aid.

You do realize democrats have racists in their ranks?

Of course...

Are White Republicans More Racist Than White Democrats?

My thought is that moderate republican are no more racists than democrats are, but the far-right MAGA faction of the party is significantly more racist than other Americans. They are the people skewing the graph significantly toward republicans being racists. Notice that while Obama's election to office reduced racist attitudes among Americans generally, it actually caused the far right to become more racist.

 

[IWalkAlone]

Didn't you read the survey? Part of the problem for you, is you don't seem to read very carefully.



Since the survey only found that a majority of Trump supporters express racist ideas, why would you think I believed otherwise? You drank too much MAGA kool aid.



Of course...

View attachment 309136
Are White Republicans More Racist Than White Democrats?

My thought is that moderate republican are no more racists than democrats are, but the far-right MAGA faction of the party is significantly more racist than other Americans. They are the people skewing the graph significantly toward republicans being racists. Notice that while Obama's election to office reduced racist attitudes among Americans generally, it actually caused the far right to become more racist.

Its a lie. Just like when they falsely accused Trump of racism. I'm republican don't you think I know what other Republicans say and believe?

 

[The Barbarian]

Its a lie.

Sorry, it's a well-documented survey. No point in denial. This is what we see in MAGA people. One police officer testified that he was repeatedly screamed at by insurgents in the Capitol, using the N-word. He mused that no on in his career as an officer had called him that, before.

Lots more examples. You need to see more?

I'm republican don't you think I know what other Republicans say and believe?

We're not talking about republicans, but a weird (but numerous) faction of them. Notice they persist in claiming the election was stolen, long after sane republicans admitted it was fair and had no significant fraud.

 

[Albion]

Its a lie. Just like when they falsely accused Trump of racism.

Of course, it's a lie. But it's made possible by several very misleading realities of modern times.

For one, "racist" and "racism" now mean (at least to a lot of people who have a vested interesting calling other people derogatory names) whatever the speaker means by the word. It has lost all meaning, in truth.

And for another, there is no way, absolutely no way, to know who "White Democrats" are and who "White Republicans" are.

Are they one or the other because of what they told a pollster? If so, how do they decide if they actually are one or the other? Do they hold membership, just vote that way, MAINLY vote that way, identify with one more than with the other, and is it just how they're feeling today?

In the case of the graph shown here, it's based on nothing more than what the person being polled chose to use as his or her determiner at the moment, and it's also known that many people do not answer these kinds of questions correctly because they consider it to be getting too personal.

And third, the questions were asked by a left-wing polling and opinion organization, and the questions that were asked are quite obviously biased. Not a big surprise.

 

[The Barbarian]

Of course, it's a lie. But it's made possible by several very misleading realities of modern times.

We always get that "they are lying, the polls are lying, everyone is lying! But it's well-documented.

For one, "racist" and "racism" now means whatever the speaker means by the word.

Racists have played that card forever. No one really believes it.

Bias, prejudice against those who are of a certain race or ethnicity.
Definition of RACISM • Law Dictionary • TheLaw.com

Are they one or the other because of what they told a pollster? If so, how do they decide if they actually are one or the other?

They weren't asked if they were racists. They were asked several questions to see if they had attitudes found in people who have a bias against certain races or ethnic groups.

In the case of the graph shown here, it's based on nothing more than what the person chose to use as his or her determiner at the moment

Nope. Read it carefully.

it's also known that many people do not answer these kinds of questions correctly because they consider it to be getting too personal.

It's possible that there are many more MAGA racists than the survey indicates, but most of them don't seem shy about expressing racist ideas.

 

[IWalkAlone]

We're not talking about republicans, but a weird (but numerous) faction of them. Notice they persist in claiming the election was stolen, long after sane republicans admitted it was fair and had no significant fraud.

For years democrats said Bush stole the election from Gore. Weird huh?

 

[IWalkAlone]

We always get that "they are lying, the polls are lying, everyone is lying! But it's well-documented.



Racists have played that card forever. No one really believes it.

Bias, prejudice against those who are of a certain race or ethnicity.
Definition of RACISM • Law Dictionary • TheLaw.com



They weren't asked if they were racists. They were asked several questions to see if they had attitudes found in people who have a bias against certain races or ethnic groups.



Nope. Read it carefully.



It's possible that there are many more MAGA racists than the survey indicates, but most of them don't seem shy about expressing racist ideas.

Like what questions? And how do you know these people were actually who they said they were?

 

[Albion]

We always get that "they are lying, the polls are lying, everyone is lying! But it's well-documented.

"Documented" doesn't mean much, since there are about a dozen ways that a polling service can produce whatever results it wants.

For several different reasons, the results you gave us here leave no doubt that such was the case with this poll. Sorry, but it's trash.

 

[The Barbarian]

Like what questions? And how do you know these people were actually who they said they were?

Go to the link and read. And they identified themselves as MAGA. Yes, I know that during the riots, many MAGA rioters pretended to be BLM or other associations. But I think most of them are honest about their feelings.