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the three functional roles

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Douggg, Mar 17, 2021.

  1. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The evolving of the Arch Villain of the end times
    The


    .......
    king 7...............................................................king 8
    leader of the EU.....................King of Israel..........dictator of the EU
    little horn (a Julio Claudian) > Antichrist (a Jew) > beast (a Julio Claudian)


    The person will be descended from the Julio-Claudian Caesar bloodline.
    He will also be a Jew.

    What that person's detailed family tree looks like we don't have enough information to figure out. To be a Jew though, his mother will have to be a Jew. And to become the King of Israel, his father will have to be from the tribe of Judah.

    At what point, tracing back his family tree to the Julio-Claudian Caesars - we don't know.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
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  2. Hammster

    Hammster Theology Matters Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    This is pure fiction.
     
  3. Jake Arsenal

    Jake Arsenal Member

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    I am appalled at the lack of scripture to support this conjecture.
    Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
     
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    @Hammster @Jake Arsenal

    In discussing topics in this forum, it is very helpful to posters to know the fundamental positions of other poster regarding eschatology.

    I made a thread - where do you fit? - for that purpose. Please go to the link, read the first post in the thread and see if you want to participate. That way, others will know where you are coming from, and understand your comments better.

    Where do you fit ?
     
  5. Hammster

    Hammster Theology Matters Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I don’t need to go to another thread to participate in this one. And your OP is fiction regardless of my view.
     
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Yes, I understand that part.

    The "where do you fit" participation is voluntary. It is just very helpful to posters to know where other posters are coming from.

    Your comment that the OP is fiction - is not informative on its own.

    Why the tone? What are you so cranky about?

    It is like I say "good morning" and the response is "what's so good about it".
     
  7. Hammster

    Hammster Theology Matters Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    The thread isn’t really about me, is it?
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No, its not.
     
  9. Jake Arsenal

    Jake Arsenal Member

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    Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
     
  10. Kenneth Heck

    Kenneth Heck Member

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    Julius Caesar was not an emperor, or, as described in Revelation, a king.

    The Julian line of emperors:

    Augustus
    Tiberius
    Caligula
    Claudius
    Nero

    There are only five Julian emperors - where do you get the sixth?
     
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Doesn't have to be an emperor. The term kings just means leaders in that verse.
     
  12. Kenneth Heck

    Kenneth Heck Member

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    The Greek word for kings in that verse is "basileus." according to Strong's Concordance (935).

    The Greek word for leaders is "hodegos" (as in Matt 15:14) according to Strong's Concordance (3595).

    These are two totally different concepts. Kings are never thought of as no more than leaders in the bible.

    I suggest you acquire a concordance.
     
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    ruler.
     
  14. Kenneth Heck

    Kenneth Heck Member

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    The bible is quite consistent in translation on this point. Only one word, either Hebrew or Greek, is ever translated as king - melek for Hebrew, and basileus for Greek.

    The word "ruler" comes from several Greek words, none of which have ever been translated as "king".

    (752) archismagogos - ruler of a synagogue
    (758) archon - ruler, prince, chief, magistrate, chief ruler
    (2232) hegemon - governor, prince, ruler
    (2888) kosmokrator - world-ruler (describing Satan)

    To me, it looks like Revelation says what means, and means what it says.
     
  15. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    G935 βασιλεύς - Strong's Greek Lexicon

    read down through that list.

    When the person becomes the little horn, and then later the beast - to me, it is doubtful that his title will be "king" so-n-so. As the little horn he will be leader of the EU. As the beast he will be dictator of the EU.

    As the Antichrist he will be King of Israel, for a short period of time, around 3 years.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
  16. Kenneth Heck

    Kenneth Heck Member

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    The question is what word other than basileus is translated as "king"?

    If the leader of the EU will not be called a king, why would the antichrist be called a king of Israel?

    The number of kings and emperors on the planet, and their influence, has steadily decreased in the past few centuries. Today we don't see governments overthrown by rebels being replaced by anyone calling himself a king. Being a ruler doesn't make anyone a king - this gets back to the unique use of the Greek word basileus for king. The antichrist calls himself God, a title beyond that of any king or emperor.
     
  17. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Because the concept of "the" messiah is to be the King of Israel.

    the messiah equating to Christ is in John 4:
    25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

    The Jews/Jerusalem rejected Jesus as their King of Israel.

    Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
    ___________________________________________________________________

    In Judaism, there is the belief that the messiah has to be anointed the King of Israel, by a known prophet. Like Saul and David by Samuel. Solomon by Nathan.

    The Jews also are looking for Elijah to come to bring in the messianic age. The false prophet in Revelation 13 does miracles, calling fire down from heaven as Elijah did. So
    it appears as though he will claim to be Elijah and will be the one who anoints the person King of Israel, making the person the Antichrist.

    ______________________________________________________

    The common, almost universal, mistake inside of and outside of Christianity is to refer to the person as the Antichrist in blanket fashion.

    When in fact being the Antichrist is only for the time the person is the King of Israel (coming in his own name).
     
  18. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Of course, the person claims to be God - which will end his time as the King of Israel, coming in his own name, as the Jews are not going to stand for that.

    btw, what lead to the demanding of the Jews to have a king is in 1Samuel12:

    12 And when ye saw that Nahash the king of the children of Ammon came against you, ye said unto me, Nay; but a king shall reign over us: when the LORD your God was your king.
     
  19. Kenneth Heck

    Kenneth Heck Member

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    Who provides the "King of Israel" with his physical throne, his physical crown, and his scepter - in other words, who creates these objects, since they don't exist at present? These are the normal accoutrements
    of a basileus, or king. Does the antichrist need these to rule Israel?

    I must admit I have never heard of anyone who practices a religion, but then graduates up to, or simultaneously claims, that he is actually God. Daniel 11: 37- 39 describes the strange god that the "antichrist" honors and acknowledges, seemingly while claiming to be God.
     
  20. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I don't know the answer to who makes those objects. I think that the anointing of Saul, David, Solomon was done with some special blend of oil.

    I think the templeinstitute.org may be working on those physical objects you mentioned. I don't recall.

    Actually, there is a passage in the Tanach about the person (veiled by the name prince of Tyre) thinking he has achieved God-hood. The way the passage is written, the person magnifies himself in his heart that he is "a" God, but in effect is God. Which is similar to the way 2Thessalonians2:4 is written...


    Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:


    2Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    God has the person killed in Ezekiel 28:1-10, by strangers to him. Which is the mortally wounded unto death head in Revelation 13. The person will probably be assassinated.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
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