The Thief on the cross destroy's ROYS/works salvation

[d taylor]

Belief, trust, and faith in what?

Son of God, Him, Me, Son of Man, Bread of Life, Living Water all are identified in The Bible as Jesus, The Christ, The Messiah.

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

 

[friend of]

The thief on the cross was saved so that sinners would not despair

But only one of him, that we would not presume.

 

[d taylor]

What do you think He meant be “hears My word”?

To The people Jesus was addressing He meant who hears his words He was speaking. That He was The Messiah/God in human flesh.
Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

 

[d taylor]

Which is more beneficial to an apostate church, teaching that one must obey Christ or teaching that one doesn’t have to obey Him? Which of those two options will get the church more members and more money? The one that teaches that we must walk in the Spirit or the one that teaches that we don’t have to and we don’t have to change our way of life? Faith alone is a heretical doctrine that gives people a false sense of security that allows them to be saved without any devotion whatsoever preventing them from actually becoming a new creation. No burden of having to refrain from anything or changing their preferred lifestyle just believe and that it. Makes for a pretty wide path from my perspective.

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If it is so easy to simply trust in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life, why is it the smallest group out of christianity.

The churches that teach a works obedience based salvation are numerous. They make up basically every church in a community, so if these churches have the answer. Why is christianity in such a disgraceful mess

 

[BNR32FAN]

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If it is so easy to simply trust in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life, why is it the smallest group out of christianity.

The churches that teach a works obedience based salvation are numerous. They make up basically every church in a community, so if these churches have the answer. Why is christianity in such a disgraceful mess

It isn’t the smallest group in Christianity. I don’t know where your from but here in Texas you can throw a rock out a window and hit 6 or 7 faith alone churches.

 

[BNR32FAN]

To The people Jesus was addressing He meant who hears his words He was speaking. That He was The Messiah/God in human flesh.
Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

So we just need to believe who He is, we don’t need to believe what He said?

 

[Fervent]

I don't understand the motivation behind threads like this, or the "faith/works" debate in general. Especially since they always seem to be arguing "you don't have to obey Jesus to be saved." as if it's a bad thing to obey Jesus. Whether it is a requirement to be saved or not, it seems foolish to dissuade someone from obeying Jesus. What's the point of the gospel if it lacks the joy that comes from serving the Lord? Why rob people of the privilege of obeying Christ?

 

[d taylor]

It isn’t the smallest group in Christianity. I don’t know where your from but here in Texas you can throw a rock out a window and hit 6 or 7 faith alone churches.

Sure it is, just look at the salvation thread section on this christian forums website, 95% + believe in a works/obedience type of eternal life salvation.

 

[d taylor]

So we just need to believe who He is, we don’t need to believe what He said?

Jesus said He is The promised Messiah and that faith in Him gives a person God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”
Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”


Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

 

[BNR32FAN]

I don't understand the motivation behind threads like this, or the "faith/works" debate in general. Especially since they always seem to be arguing "you don't have to obey Jesus to be saved." as if it's a bad thing to obey Jesus. Whether it is a requirement to be saved or not, it seems foolish to dissuade someone from obeying Jesus. What's the point of the gospel if it lacks the joy that comes from serving the Lord? Why rob people of the privilege of obeying Christ?

It often reminds me of the saying “surely you will not die”. If we believe in Christ surely we will believe in what He said and taught.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Sure it is, just look at the salvation thread section on this christian forums website, 95% + believe in a works/obedience type of eternal life salvation.

Yeah that’s because most people who believe in “easy believism” won’t bother with participating on a Christian forum, they know all they want to know. They have much better things to do than studying the word of God. As long as all they have to do is believe, what’s the point of studying the Bible? It’s all a bunch of useless information to them that they don’t feel like taking the time to worry about.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Jesus said He is The promised Messiah and that faith in Him gives a person God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”
Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”


Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

So believe in Christ and worship satan? Believe in Christ and commit murder & rape? Believe in Christ and you have a license to sin? I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if actual satan worshippers believe in Christ. If they can believe in satan then why wouldn’t they believe in Christ seeing that they do believe in supernatural beings? I would imagine that they probably do believe in both but they prefer satan because he allows them to indulge in their sins. Many people have this false belief that hell will be a place of partying and drugs and drunkenness and sexual immorality, they have no clue.

 

[Fervent]

It often reminds me of the saying “surely you will not die”. If we believe in Christ surely we will believe in what He said and taught.

I just wonder why such an empty profession should matter. What is the point of salvation if it doesn't change our lives?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I just wonder why such an empty profession should matter. What is the point of salvation if it doesn't change our lives?

Amen, why atone for our sins? So that we can indulge in them? That’s insane.

 

[Fervent]

Amen, why atone for our sins? So that we can indulge in them? That’s insane.

There's certainly that, but I was speaking more of our experience. A faith that ends at confession need not ever be considered again, its compatible with any and all desires we may have. The afterlife is far too removed from where I am now for me to particularly care about it, so I don't see how a faith that ends at confession would be worth a martyrs sacrifice. So why do people who believe that all faith is is a confession of agreement bother constantly starting threads about how obedience doesn't matter(or worse obedience is detrimental)? The gospel is not just a proposition we agree or disagree with, but something we have the privilege of parrticipating in.

 

[BNR32FAN]

There's certainly that, but I was speaking more of our experience. A faith that ends at confession need not ever be considered again, its compatible with any and all desires we may have. The afterlife is far too removed from where I am now for me to particularly care about it, so I don't see how a faith that ends at confession would be worth a martyrs sacrifice. So why do people who believe that all faith is is a confession of agreement bother constantly starting threads about how obedience doesn't matter(or worse obedience is detrimental)? The gospel is not just a proposition we agree or disagree with, but something we have the privilege of parrticipating in.

I see what your saying. With that kind of faith the scriptures sure could’ve been a lot shorter.

 

[d taylor]

So believe in Christ and worship satan? Believe in Christ and commit murder & rape? Believe in Christ and you have a license to sin? I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if actual satan worshippers believe in Christ. If they can believe in satan then why wouldn’t they believe in Christ seeing that they do believe in supernatural beings? I would imagine that they probably do believe in both but they prefer satan because he allows them to indulge in their sins. Many people have this false belief that hell will be a place of partying and drugs and drunkenness and sexual immorality, they have no clue.

Why are we still having this back and forth, you ask the same questions again and again. I an tired of repeting the same replys again and again. Go read the other topic where this was discussed.

 

[d taylor]

Yeah that’s because most people who believe in “easy believism” won’t bother with participating on a Christian forum, they know all they want to know. They have much better things to do than studying the word of God. As long as all they have to do is believe, what’s the point of studying the Bible? It’s all a bunch of useless information to them that they don’t feel like taking the time to worry about.

What a false accusation made against free grace believers.

 

[benadamm]

The thief said He deserved death on a cross. I think He would have done anything Jesus said if he could.

He shows us the sanctifying value of Christian suffering.

 

[Soyeong]

Jesus said in John 6:47 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.” he said believe on him for eternal life, not turn from all your sins, live a good life. the will of God is to believe the Son.

In Matthew 19:17, Jesus also said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments, so that is the way to believe in the Son. In Hebrews 1:3, the Son is the exact image of God's nature, which he expressed through setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law, so the way to believe in the nature of who he is by following his example. We can't believe in the Son by rejecting the nature of who he is.