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The terminal decline of Christianity in New Zealand

Discussion in 'Australian & New Zealand' started by Sectio Aurea, Jan 11, 2014.

  1. Sectio Aurea

    Sectio Aurea Guest

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    First of all I study any other independant contemporary documents that corroborate with "said" historical document.

    Secondly, I study the works of scholars who specialise with "said" historical document.

    We have numerous contemporary documents of other people's lives before Jesus, yet we do not have any contemporary historical records for Jesus, people only started writing about Jesus some decades after his death. In other words, all writings we have about Jesus are from authors who never met Jesus.

    If Jesus really was who Christians believe he was, why didn't anybody start recording any documents about him while he existed?

    Surely an event like "the son of a creator god" existing in our midst would be an event worthy of a contemporary historical document.

    Yet we have zip, nada, zero.

    This is one reason why I believe Christianity is a false religion.
     
  2. Sectio Aurea

    Sectio Aurea Guest

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    Your point is?
     
  3. Sectio Aurea

    Sectio Aurea Guest

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    After extensive Bible studies specifically the OT, I have come to the conclusion that Christianity is in fact a religion rooted in evil.

    I believe the NT brain-washes Christians in to believing that Christianity is actually good moral religion.
     
  4. Sectio Aurea

    Sectio Aurea Guest

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    I attended a service at an Anglican parish in Auckland recently 12 months after attending the same parish. Looking around at the other parishners I realised the average age would have been aprox mid 70's. I can confidently say that numbers have dwindled.
     
  5. Johnnz

    Johnnz Senior Veteran Supporter

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    John
    NZ
     
  6. Sectio Aurea

    Sectio Aurea Guest

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    Johnnz, please give me one contemporary historical document for Jesus?
     
  7. Johnnz

    Johnnz Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You show me you have done some homework. I suggested N T Wright as a start. He has a good section in his first volume giving a basis for assessement of the biblical materials as well as his sources.

    John
    NZ
     
  8. Sectio Aurea

    Sectio Aurea Guest

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    John please don't avoid my request, ask me for something, give excuses, or provide here-say like the four gospels for example.

    Simply give me one contemporary historical document for Jesus?
     
  9. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    he gave you one single source which deals with many.
    you would have to debunk that alone before you proceed with further questions or assumptions.
    also if you have a chosen predisposition toward unbelief ,then it is dishonest to give the impression you desire to be convinced.
    you sound like you are parroting some website.
    in 2000 years such arguments have raged and those that argued them are gone..but the gospel of the lord Jesus remains.
    tell me,what part of "do unto others as you would have done unto yourself,love your neighbor as your self,greater love has no one but that he lay down his life for others...do you find false?
     
  10. Sectio Aurea

    Sectio Aurea Guest

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    OK, why dont you choose just one of those for me then?

    Was there any contemporary historical records for Jesus in his post? Unless I had a blind moment I didn't see any. I requested a single contemporary historical document, it would be reasonable for him to satisfy that request first.

    How on earth does one choose atheism? Its not a choice.

    Do you have any desire to be convinced that Hinduism is the one and only true religion? I doubt it. So you will probably understand why I have no desire to be convinced that Christianity is the one and only true religion. But its not because I'm ignorant of Christianity. Its because I'm very familiar with it. Im being totally honest. But my ears are open so go ahead and try and convince me if you wish, just please do not preach.
    What do you mean by that?

    For 2000 years there has been no evidence, so thats not surprising.

    But gospels were written by authors who never met Jesus.

    The bolded part.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2014
  11. Johnnz

    Johnnz Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You belong to a genre that is predisposed to disbelief.

    In any honest quest for a answer on any topic the obligatory steps such as
    List the questions/issues you need answers for.
    Research information in support of your current views.
    Research information that opposes your current views.
    Analyse and assess and then decide which gives the most satisfying/comprehensive explanation.

    Beginning with the Enlightenment scepticism about the bible story grew steadily. My the 19th Century dismissal of both Testaments was the accepted norm amongst scholars. Around the 1940's there was a change as the disciplines of archaeology and ancient studies found increasing evidence against the dismissive scholarship. The latter group are now a minority.

    Thus, meet my challenge - rebut Wright as a starting point.

    John
    NZ
     
  12. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    I do not believe you are being honest in what your saying .
    I choose to disbelieve you .(see what I did there?)

    we see this principle at work every day .
    a mother has her child arrested .. all the evidence and facts display the child's guilt . the mother chooses to believe her child is innocent regardless .

    belief is a choice .
    it is simply dishonest to deny that .
    the gospel tells us the requirements of eternal life BELIEVE in the lord Jesus and REPENT of not believing .

    your presently hold to your choice . no more , no less .
     
  13. Sectio Aurea

    Sectio Aurea Guest

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    Belief is a choice! you are correct and I dont deny that.

    But tell me, could you just voluntarily choose NOT to believe in Jesus?

    I certainly couldn't make a choice like that.

    I am being sincerely honest so it is sad that you disbelieve me. My theistic position (all lack of) is a position that I came realise, not a position of voluntary choice. I cant just flick a switch one morning and decide to start believing (or disbelieving) in god(s). Maybe you can, but I can not.

    I am naturally skeptical of anything "extraordinary" and believe evidence is a reasonable request for anything "extraordinary".
     
  14. Sectio Aurea

    Sectio Aurea Guest

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    To be more accurate I'm predisposed to disbelief in anthropomorphic god(s) like the Abrahamic god(s) for example but I'm open to other god concepts. Christians are predisposed to disbelief in other gods.

    I note my simple request for a single contemporary historical document for Jesus has been ignored not once but twice.

    Was that not the starting point?
     
  15. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    i do not wish to choose that.
    but go to some atheist forums and you can find some who have claimed to do just that.
    im not interested in whatever they say..
    because they only offer me hopelessness.
     
  16. Sectio Aurea

    Sectio Aurea Guest

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    Is it possible for you to choose that?

    Why would you (a Christian) go to atheist forums to see what they could say or offer?
     
  17. Johnnz

    Johnnz Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Its so easy for sceptics to simply ignore anything that they don't want to accept. I gave some makers for any genuine debate. You selectively ignored them. I have been around far too long to engage in debate where one side is doggedly ignorant of the basis upon which one's own views are based, both in terms of unexamined and therefore uncontested presuppositions, and all but total absence of evidence of genuine enquiry. This will soon be in evidence - 4 contemporary historical documents (not just 1) are the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and Acts. John too, but I omitted that book as it is a different genre, but totally reliant on historical data.

    John
    NZ
     
  18. Sectio Aurea

    Sectio Aurea Guest

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    John.

    Most scholars agree Jesus existed between 748-783AUC nowadays known as aprox 6BC-36CE.

    Matthew, Mark, Luke and Acts were written a long time after this period so these documents are NOT contemporary historical documents.
     
  19. Johnnz

    Johnnz Senior Veteran Supporter

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    That's what I expected you to say. Hence my post 51. Until you show some appreciation of the nature of historical evidence and how that is evaluated I remain utterly sceptical of your basic stance. You will debunk and disagree with whatever doesn't fit your existing conclusions, rather than engage in genuine debate which requires quality information as I have already indicated.

    John
    NZ
     
  20. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    What do you wish to achieve?
     
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