LDS The Strait Gate and Narrow Way: Celestial Marriage

Ignatius the Kiwi

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This is an aspect of Mormon theology that makes little sense for me, because marriage isn't about God fulfilling our needs it's about another of creation fulfilling our needs. Paul mentions this explicitly when he mentions the married will be concerned with their spouses more than they would be concerned with God and obviously he thinks it's superior to be more concerned with the affairs of the Lord than one's spouse. This is why he encourages some to remain unmarried and gives marriage as a concession (this should be unthinkable if a Mormon theology of marriage existed in the new Testament).

I would take the fact that Jesus was unmarried as the ultimate disproof of the Mormon Emphasis on marriage. If Mormons admit the possibility Jesus became perfectly exalted without celestial marriage then what basis do they have for insisting those who are not celestially married now only receive a lesser exaltation? They must logically affirm Jesus was married, but there is no evidence of that.

Mormonism flips Paul and Jesus and says it's better to be married and concerned with the affairs of your wife, than it is to be concerned with the affairs of God alone. That in the next life you will be married to as many people as you were celestially married to in this world. Joseph Smith thus has 40 or so wives currently, some of whom he took from faithful Mormon men (although i suppose he has to workout between himself and Brigham Young which wives are his and the latter's). It does away with the celibate impulse of the early Church which was encouraged and found it's full fruition in Christian Monasticism. The concern to live to God alone is diminished and rewarded with a lesser exaltation. To me this makes no sense.

Marriage is good, Sacramental marriage is even better but it isn't the highest form of existence. In one way, it's a concession to our passionate nature. A necessary regulation and the true expression of love. The meaning of the universe is not found in marriage but in God alone.
 
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Peter1000

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This is an aspect of Mormon theology that makes little sense for me, because marriage isn't about God fulfilling our needs it's about another of creation fulfilling our needs. Paul mentions this explicitly when he mentions the married will be concerned with their spouses more than they would be concerned with God and obviously he thinks it's superior to be more concerned with the affairs of the Lord than one's spouse. This is why he encourages some to remain unmarried and gives marriage as a concession (this should be unthinkable if a Mormon theology of marriage existed in the new Testament).

I would take the fact that Jesus was unmarried as the ultimate disproof of the Mormon Emphasis on marriage. If Mormons admit the possibility Jesus became perfectly exalted without celestial marriage then what basis do they have for insisting those who are not celestially married now only receive a lesser exaltation? They must logically affirm Jesus was married, but there is no evidence of that.

Mormonism flips Paul and Jesus and says it's better to be married and concerned with the affairs of your wife, than it is to be concerned with the affairs of God alone. That in the next life you will be married to as many people as you were celestially married to in this world. Joseph Smith thus has 40 or so wives currently, some of whom he took from faithful Mormon men (although i suppose he has to workout between himself and Brigham Young which wives are his and the latter's). It does away with the celibate impulse of the early Church which was encouraged and found it's full fruition in Christian Monasticism. The concern to live to God alone is diminished and rewarded with a lesser exaltation. To me this makes no sense.

Marriage is good, Sacramental marriage is even better but it isn't the highest form of existence. In one way, it's a concession to our passionate nature. A necessary regulation and the true expression of love. The meaning of the universe is not found in marriage but in God alone.
Paul says marry only if you cannot control your body.

God says that it is not good for man to be alone, so he created a woman for Adam. How did God know it was not good for man to be alone?

Why would God's first commandment be to be of one flesh and be fruitful and multiply (have sex) and fill the earth with men and women?
 
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Rescued One

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Adam was alone. There was no other human. God did NOT say I expect/command that every human be married. God knew that humans were going to die. The earth would be unpopulated by humans if Adam and Eve and other humans had no children.

Some Mormons would have no children except through adoption. Mormons used to oppose birth control; they no longer oppose it.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Paul says marry only if you cannot control your body.

God says that it is not good for man to be alone, so he created a woman for Adam. How did God know it was not good for man to be alone?

Why would God's first commandment be to be of one flesh and be fruitful and multiply (have sex) and fill the earth with men and women?

When you say God's first commandment, are you saying that it's a mandate to get married? That each and every person should get married, regardless of circumstance? I wouldn't go that far in interpreting Genesis and it doesn't seem justified by the text. It's a general prescription, not a command for each and every person. Most people will get married but not everyone has to. Jesus proves this and Paul proves this as well by his advice not to get married.

Obviously it is good to be married, but it is better to love God more than one's wife, no? It's here, within Mormonism, we get the hint of an Idea that perhaps one should love one's wife equally (as much as they love God) since those who receive the highest exaltation will become gods anyway. How then can the interest of love between potential gods be divided between only one parent (we need not love Heavenly Mother) and the spouse? It's a weird eternal relationship Mormons demand and if they are to take up the mantle of godhood how can you possibly love your own eternal goddess wife less than your father? Won't she then be equally god? Yet the God of the bible demands such love, above every loyalty we have.

Thus it's not hard to see where Paul got his celibate impulse. He even says, it's good to not marry, to spare people from the trouble of marriage. He says this knowing most won't be celibate or will be able to handle their passion. In fact, where in the Bible do we ever hear of our salvation being dependent on us being married instead of being dependent on God and his love? It's here Mormons go beyond the biblical text and have revealed a secret hidden away from the first Christians. If it were known by Paul that marriage was so essential, he could never have suggested that it's good to remain unmarried. Because he would know that those who refuse to love anyone else except God cannot inherit the Kingdom of God (in the highest sense).
 
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He is the way

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Adam was alone. There was no other human. God did NOT say I expect/command that every human be married. God knew that humans were going to die. The earth would be unpopulated by humans if Adam and Eve and other humans had no children.

Some Mormons would have no children except through adoption. Mormons used to oppose birth control; they no longer oppose it.
You said: "God did NOT say I expect/command that every human be married."

Not everything God said is in the Bible so how can anyone know what God did not say?
 
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drstevej

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Peter1000

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When you say God's first commandment, are you saying that it's a mandate to get married? That each and every person should get married, regardless of circumstance? I wouldn't go that far in interpreting Genesis and it doesn't seem justified by the text. It's a general prescription, not a command for each and every person. Most people will get married but not everyone has to. Jesus proves this and Paul proves this as well by his advice not to get married.

Obviously it is good to be married, but it is better to love God more than one's wife, no? It's here, within Mormonism, we get the hint of an Idea that perhaps one should love one's wife equally (as much as they love God) since those who receive the highest exaltation will become gods anyway. How then can the interest of love between potential gods be divided between only one parent (we need not love Heavenly Mother) and the spouse? It's a weird eternal relationship Mormons demand and if they are to take up the mantle of godhood how can you possibly love your own eternal goddess wife less than your father? Won't she then be equally god? Yet the God of the bible demands such love, above every loyalty we have.

Thus it's not hard to see where Paul got his celibate impulse. He even says, it's good to not marry, to spare people from the trouble of marriage. He says this knowing most won't be celibate or will be able to handle their passion. In fact, where in the Bible do we ever hear of our salvation being dependent on us being married instead of being dependent on God and his love? It's here Mormons go beyond the biblical text and have revealed a secret hidden away from the first Christians. If it were known by Paul that marriage was so essential, he could never have suggested that it's good to remain unmarried. Because he would know that those who refuse to love anyone else except God cannot inherit the Kingdom of God (in the highest sense).
Members of the Church of Jesus Christ see a triangular relationship between man and woman and God. God is at the top of the triangle. The man and woman love each other and together they love God and bring God within their marriage.

You are right, not everyone is fitted for marriage, but that will not keep them from the highest kingdom in the heavens. But there is a place in the highest kingdom that they will not be able to go. They will be angels to God and will exalted, but will not have the opportunity to grow and expand themselves through the acts of creating.
 
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Peter1000

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Adam was alone. There was no other human. God did NOT say I expect/command that every human be married. God knew that humans were going to die. The earth would be unpopulated by humans if Adam and Eve and other humans had no children.

Some Mormons would have no children except through adoption. Mormons used to oppose birth control; they no longer oppose it.

Some members of the Church of Jesus Christ opposed birth control, but certainly not all.

Certainly the first commandment was to multiply and replentish the earth. The only way in the sight of God to multiply was to be married. The scriptures are very strict and straight forward, no sex outside the marriage covenant.[/QUOTE]
 
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Rescued One

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Members of the Church of Jesus Christ see a triangular relationship between man and woman and God. God is at the top of the triangle. The man and woman love each other and together they love God and bring God within their marriage.

You are right, not everyone is fitted for marriage, but that will not keep them from the highest kingdom in the heavens. But there is a place in the highest kingdom that they will not be able to go. They will be angels to God and will exalted, but will not have the opportunity to grow and expand themselves through the acts of creating.

Exaltation is eternal life is godhood in Mormonism.
 
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Some members of the Church of Jesus Christ opposed birth control, but certainly not all.

Certainly the first commandment was to multiply and replentish the earth. The only way in the sight of God to multiply was to be married. The scriptures are very strict and straight forward, no sex outside the marriage covenant.

I'm talking about the the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!

Were you sleeping back then?

“The Lord has told us that it is the duty of every husband and wife to obey the command given to Adam to multiply and replenish the earth, so that the legions of choice spirits waiting for their tabernacles of flesh may come here and move forward under God’s great design to become perfect souls, for without these fleshly tabernacles they cannot progress to their God-planned destiny. Thus, every husband and wife should become a father and a mother in Israel to children born under the holy, eternal covenant.”
First Presidency—Heber J. Grant, J. Reuben Clark Jr., David O. McKay,
Conference Report, Oct. 1942, 11–12

“Love realizes his sweetest happiness and his most divine consummation in the home where the coming of children is not restricted, where they are made most welcome, and where the duties of parenthood are accepted as a co-partnership with the eternal Creator.
“In all this, however, the mother’s health should be guarded. In the realm of wifehood, the woman should reign supreme.”
David O. McKay,
Gospel Ideals, 469


“Supreme happiness in marriage is governed considerably by a primary factor—that of the bearing and rearing of children. Too many young people set their minds, determining they will not marry or have children until they are more secure, until the military service period is over; until the college degree is secured; until the occupation is more well-defined; until the debts are paid; or until it is more convenient. They have forgotten that the first commandment is to ‘be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it.’ (Genesis 1:28.) And so brides continue their employment and husbands encourage it, and contraceptives are used to prevent conception. Relatives and friends and even mothers sometimes encourage birth control for their young newlyweds. But the excuses are many, mostly weak. The wife is not robust; the family budget will not feed extra mouths; or the expense of the doctor, hospital, and other incidentals is too great; it will disturb social life; it would prevent two salaries; and so abnormal living prevents the birth of children. The Church cannot approve nor condone the measures which so greatly limit the family” (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, 328–29).
 
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Rescued One

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Exaltation and eternal life is = to 'life with God and Jesus'. There will be single and there will be married people that share this life with God and Jesus.

Do you believe that single people have obeyed every law, commandment, and ordinance of God? Marriage for time and eternity is a commandment.

D&C 132
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

Ama 45
16 And he said: Thus saith the Lord God—Cursed shall be the land, yea, this land, unto every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, unto destruction, which do wickedly, when they are fully ripe; and as I have said so shall it be; for this is the cursing and the blessing of God upon the land, for the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

Doctrine and Civenants 1
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Members of the Church of Jesus Christ see a triangular relationship between man and woman and God. God is at the top of the triangle. The man and woman love each other and together they love God and bring God within their marriage.

You are right, not everyone is fitted for marriage, but that will not keep them from the highest kingdom in the heavens. But there is a place in the highest kingdom that they will not be able to go. They will be angels to God and will exalted, but will not have the opportunity to grow and expand themselves through the acts of creating.

Not marrying will keep people from the highest exaltation and that to me is the problem. In fact it doesn't seem especially clear withing Mormonism that its even the case that marriage is necessary. I say this because of the possibility Christ was unmarried within the Mormin view of things. Hence if Christ while being unmarried and attained the highest exaltation, it should be possible for others as well.

The main problem I have with this Mormon idolization of marriage is that it goes against scripture, specifically what Jesus and Paul both say concerning the subject. Paul clearly thought celibacy was superior to marriage and Mormons can't satisfactorily deal with that text. It's really inexcusable for the Mormon or believer in God to say that it is good to be not married, yet Paul says it.

You mention a triangular love, isn't it more like a quadrilateral love? You have to love your spouse a certain amount, but most of your love should go to the Father, Son and Holy Ghosn right? Why is the love of a spouse necessary to achieve the highest exaltation when it must be necessarily limited? You aren't even required to love your Heavenly Mother or all the divine family of God, which would undermine this idea of eternal generation.

For instance, are the spiritual Children of Joseph Smith (if he is now a God or will become one) bound to Smith's heavenly Father? Apparently not. So loving Heavenly Father will be something not required of in future generations.

The whole Idea of making marriage necessary to spiritual development cuts against being dependant on God alone. Which means God, within Mormonism cannot provide the faithful follower with what a spouse can.
 
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He is the way

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Do you believe that single people have obeyed every law, commandment, and ordinance of God? Marriage for time and eternity is a commandment.

D&C 132
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

Ama 45
16 And he said: Thus saith the Lord God—Cursed shall be the land, yea, this land, unto every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, unto destruction, which do wickedly, when they are fully ripe; and as I have said so shall it be; for this is the cursing and the blessing of God upon the land, for the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

Doctrine and Civenants 1
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.
Marriage for time and eternity does not need to be completed during this life.
 
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He is the way

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Not marrying will keep people from the highest exaltation and that to me is the problem. In fact it doesn't seem especially clear withing Mormonism that its even the case that marriage is necessary. I say this because of the possibility Christ was unmarried within the Mormin view of things. Hence if Christ while being unmarried and attained the highest exaltation, it should be possible for others as well.

The main problem I have with this Mormon idolization of marriage is that it goes against scripture, specifically what Jesus and Paul both say concerning the subject. Paul clearly thought celibacy was superior to marriage and Mormons can't satisfactorily deal with that text. It's really inexcusable for the Mormon or believer in God to say that it is good to be not married, yet Paul says it.

You mention a triangular love, isn't it more like a quadrilateral love? You have to love your spouse a certain amount, but most of your love should go to the Father, Son and Holy Ghosn right? Why is the love of a spouse necessary to achieve the highest exaltation when it must be necessarily limited? You aren't even required to love your Heavenly Mother or all the divine family of God, which would undermine this idea of eternal generation.

For instance, are the spiritual Children of Joseph Smith (if he is now a God or will become one) bound to Smith's heavenly Father? Apparently not. So loving Heavenly Father will be something not required of in future generations.

The whole Idea of making marriage necessary to spiritual development cuts against being dependant on God alone. Which means God, within Mormonism cannot provide the faithful follower with what a spouse can.
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 11:11)

11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
 
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mmksparbud

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Marriage for time and eternity does not need to be completed during this life.

Huh??! There are quotes stating that you (LDS) do not believe anyone will be able to marry in heaven---Jesus Himself said it. So how can this be done in heaven?
 
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Marriage for time and eternity does not need to be completed during this life.


Are you unable to answer the question or is this another one that you don't want to answer? Try again.

Do you believe that single people have obeyed every law, commandment, and ordinance of God? Marriage for time and eternity is a commandment.
 
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He is the way

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What temple? You said it does not need to be in this life. After this life is life with Jesus which does not include a temple for He is the temple.
In the temple we do proxy baptisms for the dead. We also do proxy sealings for the dead. Most of the ordinances we do in the temple are for the dead. That being said, due to the COVID 19 outbreak, only live ordinances are being performed in the temple at this time.
 
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