The Story of the Jewish Christ by Talmud scholar Daniel Boyarin

[Henaynei]

The Jewish Gospels: The Story of the Jewish Christ by Talmud scholar Daniel Boyarin - review by MRabbi Derek Leman


Daniel Boyarin is Taubman Professor of Talmudic Culture and rhetoric at the University of California, Berkeley. In the foreword by Jack Miles, he is called "one of two or three greatest rabbinic scholars in the world." I'm not qualified to assign numbers to who is or isn't the world's greatest Talmud scholar, but it is easy to say that Boyarin knows his Talmud better than any but maybe a few dozen people in the world.

So, it might surprise you to know that Boyarin thinks Judaism and Christianity are compatible. His goal, stated on pages 6-7 is to help Christians and Jews to stop vilifying each other. He doesn't follow Jesus and isn't asking fellow Jews to do so. But he demolishes all ideas that Christian devotion to Jesus is contrary to Judaism or that Christianity is anything other than a Judaism to which mostly non-Jews have been drawn. Jews in the time of Jesus were looking, he says, for a divine messiah. And Jesus' earliest followers were kosher Jews. The sad separation and enmity of Judaism and Christianity is something to get beyond, not something to perpetuate.

Read whole review at link above.

Sent from my iPod touch using CF app

 

[ChavaK]

One man's opinion, not likely to be shared by many.

He is also not highly though of in many circles. Google him and you may
find he is not one's whose views are exactly main stream.

For instance:
IsraCampus.Org.il

But Daniel Boyarin is particularly notorious for how he displays a virulent hatred for the Jewish people of Israel whose Talmud he studied for so many years, particularly Israelis who practice self-defense against Arab irredentism. In addition, Boyarin’s overlooking of anti-Semitism and his embracing of anti-Semites at UC Berkeley make him particularly difficult to comprehend for most rational people, given his academic background.

He has compared Israel's treatment of Palestinians to the Nazi's treatment of Jews.
He's a professor at a very radical campus in a very radical city. That alone would
make me suspicious of him.

 

[Henaynei]

One man's opinion, not likely to be shared by many.

He is also not highly though of in many circles. Google him and you may
find he is not one's whose views are exactly main stream.

For instance:
IsraCampus.Org.il

He has compared Israel's treatment of Palestinians to the Nazi's treatment of Jews.
He's a professor at a very radical campus in a very radical city. That alone would
make me suspicious of him.

That definitely sheds additional light on this issue, thanks.

Sent from my iPod touch using CF app

 

[ContraMundum]

He has compared Israel's treatment of Palestinians to the Nazi's treatment of Jews.
He's a professor at a very radical campus in a very radical city. That alone would
make me suspicious of him.

I don't know how often I have seen those prepared to make peace with the Christians vilified by their fellow Jews. Really gets boring after a while. Does everybody have to fall in line with the party line or face public vilification and humility? Why is it that every time someone has an opinion that challenges the control mechanisms of certain Rabbis and their cronies they end up being "self-hating"?

Seriously, this guy has some good points. I don't think people should care at all about the opinions of horrified reactionaries like Susannah Klien. Read the facts and make your opinions based on them, not the emotive appeal to conform or be cast out.

 

[ChavaK]

I don't know how often I have seen those prepared to make peace with the Christians vilified by their fellow Jews.

I am certainly not against that....I just don't happen to care for the man or his views.

 

[pat34lee]

Rabbi Jacob Emden had some nice things to say about Yeshua and even Paul back in 1757. I'm only pasting in a couple of paragraphs here. The whole article and its links are worth reading. I disagree with a few of his conclusions, but he makes good points.

Rabbi Jacob Emden meets Rabbi Yahshua

What Rabbi Emden did come to realize in his study in the mid-18th century, was that Jesus the Nazarene took an ancient Jewish law that certain Gentiles also had an inheritance in the “world to come” and put it into action as His mission to the Gentile world. This God-given inheritance had been cast aside by part of the schools of the Pharisees. It was never-the-less accepted by the rabbinic sage and Sanhedrin president (Nasi) Hillel the Elder and his disciples. There was also evidence that they, neither Jesus nor Paul violated any of the 613 commandments given to the Israelites (Jewish people today) at Sinai but by implementing these ancient “seven commandments of the Sons of Noah” enhanced the Torah ideal that the Jews were given the responsibility to be a “light to the world.”

​

Rabbi Jacob Emden – “As I have said earlier – that the writers of the Gospel never meant to say that the Nazarene came to abolish Judaism, but only that he came to establish a religion for the Gentiles from that time onward. Nor was it new, but actually ancient; they being the Seven Commandments of the Sons of Noah, which were forgotten. The Apostles of the Nazarene then established them anew. However, those born as Jews, or circumcised as converts to Judaism; one law shall be to him that is home-born, and unto the stranger are obligated to observe all commandments of the Torah without exception.” [Rabbi Jacob Emden, Seder Olam Tabbah Vezuta (1757)]​

 

[Avodat]

If Christians dropped their Replacement Theology and their knee jerk hatred of anything that smacks of the Law

and

If Jews dropped their charges against the present day Church for historical hatred against them and their almost knee jerk anti-Jesus stance

we would find that we have a lot more in common than many Jews and Christians think.

 

[jcpro]

I am certainly not against that....I just don't happen to care for the man or his views.

Agree. Nazi-Israel comparison invalidates everything.

 

[Qnts2]

If Christians dropped their Replacement Theology and their knee jerk hatred of anything that smacks of the Law

and

If Jews dropped their charges against the present day Church for historical hatred against them and their almost knee jerk anti-Jesus stance

we would find that we have a lot more in common than many Jews and Christians think.

The only thing I will say is that the 'historical hatred' is not always so historical. Prejudice and persecution in the name of Jesus continues, although not in as large of a coordinated scale as in the past. It is still very much present and visible to the Jewish people today.

The point is, the anti-semites have abused the Jewish people in Jesus Name and even today, continue to invoke Jesus name in their prejudice.

The real question is not so much, is Christianity anti-semitic but the real question is Yeshua anti-semitic? Jesus most certainly did not teach anti-semitism but the opposite. The behavior of some, in the Name of Jesus, is in no way reflective of the actual teachings of Yeshua. When people who call themselves Christians display anti-semitism in Jesus name, they are actually lieing about Jesus.

Jewish people Who come to believe on Jesus, do not do so because of the actions of Christianity, (although they are certainly Christians who display a love for the Jewish people). Jewish people who come to believe on Jesus do so because they discover thru scripture that Jesus is truly the Jewish Messiah. Then comes the decision, whether to believe the Truth of Jesus, or to reject that truth due to the actions of anti-semites who do so in Jesus name. Usually the truth wins out. The horrific actions of people who are not really following the teaching of the one they claim, should not and must not influence a persons decision to believe the Truth.

That is why it is so important for believers in Yeshua to not withhold the truth. If the anti-semites have taught a lie about Yeshua, those who are not anti-semities should be telling the truth about Jesus, correcting the lie.

 

[ChavaK]

Agree. Nazi-Israel comparison invalidates everything.

No, he's not a good spokesman.

 

[mishkan]

One man's opinion, not likely to be shared by many.

You're right. One leftist, anti-Israel guy isn't much of an authority. He is only notable for being one more Jewish person who will at least consider Yeshua to be part of the Jewish conversation. For Messianics, that is a great step forward from the past state of things.

Similarly, Rabbi Daniel Cohn-Sherbock is another one who receives a lot of press for approving of MJ, going even farther, including MJ as one of his "seven major branches of Judaism". Of course, he is part of Reform Judaism, and also approves of secular Judaism and "Jewbu's", so he's not exactly a primary source I would want to hang my hat on.

Rabbi Jacob Neusner, on the other hand, is universally recognized for his scholarly credentials. He explicitly states that the Messianic Writings (NT) are, "the record of a Judaism", and he writes extensively on the original relationship between the apocalyptic sect of Messianic Jews and their peers, the founders of what became modern traditional Judaism.

To me, what is most important is the fact that there are Jewish thinkers and scholars who are taking note that Yeshua was a claimant to the Messianic title, and his followers were Jews who lived a Jewish lifestyle. This recognition alone is a radical departure from the historical tendency of both Judaism and Christianity to vilify one another in the strongest possible language.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The real question is not so much, is Christianity anti-semitic but the real question is Yeshua anti-semitic? Jesus most certainly did not teach anti-semitism but the opposite. The behavior of some, in the Name of Jesus, is in no way reflective of the actual teachings of Yeshua. When people who call themselves Christians display anti-semitism in Jesus name, they are actually lieing about Jesus.

Jewish people Who come to believe on Jesus, do not do so because of the actions of Christianity, (although they are certainly Christians who display a love for the Jewish people). Jewish people who come to believe on Jesus do so because they discover thru scripture that Jesus is truly the Jewish Messiah. Then comes the decision, whether to believe the Truth of Jesus, or to reject that truth due to the actions of anti-semites who do so in Jesus name. Usually the truth wins out. The horrific actions of people who are not really following the teaching of the one they claim, should not and must not influence a persons decision to believe the Truth.

That is why it is so important for believers in Yeshua to not withhold the truth. If the anti-semites have taught a lie about Yeshua, those who are not anti-semities should be telling the truth about Jesus, correcting the lie.

Good thoughts..

If people only went by names alone to define what is or isn't error, no one could really use them even in good contexts since all beautiful names/descriptions have been used to mask a world of evil....just as term "Christianity" was often used (in name) to expand colonialism/imperialism and enslave other groups and just as the term "Judaism" or "Jewish" was used to mask ideologies that were really reverse racism when it came to philio-semitism and assuming everything Jewish is automatically superior to anything else (or can be without flaw, even when Jewish people may do horrible things).

The names can never be the basis for interpretation...but rather, one must look to the actions to see if they reflect what the names really stand for.

 

[Avodat]

You're right. One leftist, anti-Israel guy isn't much of an authority. He is only notable for being one more Jewish person who will at least consider Yeshua to be part of the Jewish conversation. For Messianics, that is a great step forward from the past state of things.

Similarly, Rabbi Daniel Cohn-Sherbock is another one who receives a lot of press for approving of MJ, going even farther, including MJ as one of his "seven major branches of Judaism". Of course, he is part of Reform Judaism, and also approves of secular Judaism and "Jewbu's", so he's not exactly a primary source I would want to hang my hat on.

Rabbi Jacob Neusner, on the other hand, is universally recognized for his scholarly credentials. He explicitly states that the Messianic Writings (NT) are, "the record of a Judaism", and he writes extensively on the original relationship between the apocalyptic sect of Messianic Jews and their peers, the founders of what became modern traditional Judaism.

To me, what is most important is the fact that there are Jewish thinkers and scholars who are taking note that Yeshua was a claimant to the Messianic title, and his followers were Jews who lived a Jewish lifestyle. This recognition alone is a radical departure from the historical tendency of both Judaism and Christianity to vilify one another in the strongest possible language.

Very true, thankfully. And some are willing to talk with their 'opposite number', as well - either way round.

 

[ContraMundum]

Agree. Nazi-Israel comparison invalidates everything.

There are Jews in Israel making this comparison now. I think it's hyperbole, but there are abuses going on in the name of Israel that need to be honestly accepted and corrected. The bizarre notion that Israel is always in the right and never makes mistakes is killing Jewish progress.

 

[ContraMundum]

The only thing I will say is that the 'historical hatred' is not always so historical. Prejudice and persecution in the name of Jesus continues, although not in as large of a coordinated scale as in the past. It is still very much present and visible to the Jewish people today.

The point is, the anti-semites have abused the Jewish people in Jesus Name and even today, continue to invoke Jesus name in their prejudice.

The real question is not so much, is Christianity anti-semitic but the real question is Yeshua anti-semitic? Jesus most certainly did not teach anti-semitism but the opposite. The behavior of some, in the Name of Jesus, is in no way reflective of the actual teachings of Yeshua. When people who call themselves Christians display anti-semitism in Jesus name, they are actually lieing about Jesus.

Jewish people Who come to believe on Jesus, do not do so because of the actions of Christianity, (although they are certainly Christians who display a love for the Jewish people). Jewish people who come to believe on Jesus do so because they discover thru scripture that Jesus is truly the Jewish Messiah. Then comes the decision, whether to believe the Truth of Jesus, or to reject that truth due to the actions of anti-semites who do so in Jesus name. Usually the truth wins out. The horrific actions of people who are not really following the teaching of the one they claim, should not and must not influence a persons decision to believe the Truth.

That is why it is so important for believers in Yeshua to not withhold the truth. If the anti-semites have taught a lie about Yeshua, those who are not anti-semities should be telling the truth about Jesus, correcting the lie.

I'm not convinced there is much anti-semitism going on in the church. There will always be anti-semites, and some will find their way into the Church, but the huge majority of the Churches themselves are strictly against it. This is mostly true of the West, as the only anti-semitism I can see now from Christians is mainly from the Eastern and Oriental Churches, and this is tied in with so many of their people being sympathetic with Arab Christians or just plain living in the past.

On the other hand, there seems to be a rise in anti-Christian sentiment all around the world, and this includes from the more militant Jewish sects, especially in Israel.

 

[ContraMundum]

Good thoughts..

If people only went by names alone to define what is or isn't error, no one could really use them even in good contexts since all beautiful names/descriptions have been used to mask a world of evil....just as term "Christianity" was often used (in name) to expand colonialism/imperialism and enslave other groups and just as the term "Judaism" or "Jewish" was used to mask ideologies that were really reverse racism when it came to philio-semitism and assuming everything Jewish is automatically superior to anything else (or can be without flaw, even when Jewish people may do horrible things).

The names can never be the basis for interpretation...but rather, one must look to the actions to see if they reflect what the names really stand for.

Amen to that. This is why Judeo-Christian theology, properly taught, is more about action than words.

Another thing that comes up from this is the "Jewish Jesus" message that is so trendy right now. I think it is a good, true and correct message, but I also think it can tend to empty Jesus of His authority. By reducing Him to just another faithful Jew, we sap out the universality of His mission and the authority of His Divinity. He becomes just another Jewish philosopher, preacher or rabbi. This is where I think Rabbinic Jewish leaders would like Him to be, at best if at all. This is why I have grown more and more wary of Rabbis seeking to own the Jewish Jesus. They always end up trying to "correct" the Christian faithful and undermine the faith. If they want to know the real Jesus, they need to both embrace and look behind and beyond the Jewishness.

Jesus is more than a Jew, and the message should be greater than the Jewish Jesus one.

 

[Desert Rose]

Jewish people Who come to believe on Jesus, do not do so because of the actions of Christianity

while i dont agree with all of the post, this is right on the money! Absolutely so.

One got to be blind, deaf and idiot in a medical sense to become a believer in Jesus after learning about our poor past, nothing-to-brag about present and love for shiny bright objects ,more politely described by "modern Christianity is a mile wide but only a 1/4 inch deep".

Even if one was lucky enough to be surrounded by most wonderful, godly, mature Christians and MJs, thats shouldnt be the reason why he believes. People can be proven as frauds, that happens all the time. Thats a really shaky basis for faith, we can't depend on other people's attitudes ,actions and words. Our faith is in Him alone.

 

[jcpro]

There are Jews in Israel making this comparison now. I think it's hyperbole, but there are abuses going on in the name of Israel that need to be honestly accepted and corrected. The bizarre notion that Israel is always in the right and never makes mistakes is killing Jewish progress.

That's deflecting. Nobody here said Israel is always right. Israel-Nazi comparison is a fool's position rendering all other opinions suspect, to say the least. Regardless of the nationality.

 

[ContraMundum]

That's deflecting. Nobody here said Israel is always right. Israel-Nazi comparison is a fool's position rendering all other opinions suspect, to say the least. Regardless of the nationality.

Not to be condescending, but that really is your opinion. Boyarin will have many agree with him, and although you do not like his comparison, many think that this is worth noting. Boyarin wants a fairer (and thus more Godly) Israel, and although you may think its hyperbole to use his language, he wants what you want (I hope). No one with a heart likes seeing Arabs kicked out of their homes (and other awful things too), and the repercussions are not good either (terrorism, war). I sometimes really think that Zionists were very naive when they thought they could relocate a population without violent consequences. While I support Israel as a nation, I am very critical of its recent governments.

 

[jcpro]

Not to be condescending, but that really is your opinion. Boyarin will have many agree with him, and although you do not like his comparison, many think that this is worth noting. Boyarin wants a fairer (and thus more Godly) Israel, and although you may think its hyperbole to use his language, he wants what you want (I hope). No one with a heart likes seeing Arabs kicked out of their homes (and other awful things too), and the repercussions are not good either (terrorism, war). I sometimes really think that Zionists were very naive when they thought they could relocate a population without violent consequences. While I support Israel as a nation, I am very critical of its recent governments.

Actually, I don't consider his position a hyperbole-that's your opinion. My opinion is that comparing Israelis to Nazis is a fool's position that puts him in the Uncle Tom category. The Zionist were not naive, btw. Jews needed a homeland. No matter how bad the situation may have been and is in the ME, it beats hands down our previous experiences while living as "guests" of other nations.