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the standard of righteousness

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by RandyPNW, Aug 23, 2021.

  1. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

    +129
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    BibleHighlighter: "Here is another verse that says that forgiveness of sins is tied to salvation.

    48 ”And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
    49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?
    50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”
    (Luke 7:48-50)."

    Luke 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
    48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.



    The faith saved her, and it is not the forgiveness of sins that saved her, it is the love of God shed into her heart by the Holy Ghost, which is evidence that the sins are no longer there, by living in love that works no ill to anyone any more..


    Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.



    We see God once saved Israel, but shows it is not once saved and always saved, it is silly, this is spoken especially for all who are predicted to turn Gods grace into lust and sin, by sating we occasionally sin and its normal, or that we all sin sometimes, because there reason on earth is to speak this way of blasphemy.

    They are as told, filthy dreamers who defile the flesh, and even speak evil of dignities ( the Lords Holy Apostles)..


    Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
    5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
    6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
    7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
    8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.




    These do reveal their methods, how they have forgotten they were purged from old sins, it stopped, they had to have charity the bond of perfection as forgiveness ended, so they speak against election is proven..



    2 Peter 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
    8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
    10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


    It continues, through that knowledge of Christ came the chance for salvation, but they turrn from the commandment of holiness, into vomit..

    2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
    21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
     
  2. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Its simple, the justified, those who are Justified by the death/blood of Christ alone, will one day be given Faith to know about it. Until a Justified person is given Faith, he or she knows nothing about it.
     
  3. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Faith dont save anyone, Christ does, the object of Faith. When Faith is said to save, its a metonym for Christ.
     
  4. DaDaBrothers

    DaDaBrothers Member

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    It does ? How so? People can be forgiven and fall back into sin. Or do you believe once you are forgiven you can never fall back into sin?

    Jesus gives eternal life in heaven, which is the fruit of the Tree of Life, of course no one can take them away from heaven. It is a promise, we are not eternal yet.
    But if you interpret this verse has having eternal life on earth first you need to follow Him because the life is in Him.
    John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

    To abide in Him is to keep His word, His commandments, and walk even as He walked.
    1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    So, until you keep His word, His commandments, and walk even as He walked (without sin) you dont have the Son, and you dont have eternal life.

    Now assuming you have eternal life on earth, you can never fall back into sin (freed from sin).. I never said you could, Im glad you brought this up. After you have eternal life you cannot fall into sin again, I agree, and never said you could.
    PS: Because Jesus is willing to forgive everyone, but eternal life is for His sheep only.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
  5. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

    +129
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    Brightfame: "The just shall have eternal life by faith, not by law keeping (Galatians 3:11-14).[/QUOTE]
    Christs death Justifes them He died for then they believe."


    Then we wonder why there was a change of the law, if it is not by law keeping, don't we ?


    Oh yes, it is all testified ( to believe in for true faith) how perfection was not by the levitical priesthood, we had a change of priesthood, and a change needed then of the law ( not no law that's lawless transgression talk) but the law made nothing perfect, but the hope of Christ did..

    Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

    Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

    Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


    The law was a mere shadow of good things to come, and could never make the comerfs perfect.

    Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.


    Then Christ comes to do the Fathers will, this is the perfection, as Christ as testified here, takes away the first ( covenant) that He might establish then the second ( covenant)..


    Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
    8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
    9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

    This is then God writing His righteousness in our hearts, as the heart of man is to believe in righteousness, and you people never talk of this new covenant, nor the fact this is how and the only time your sins would be forgiven and remembered o more ( dependent upon the new soft heart of flesh/new Spirit and His fear now in us)..

    Hebrews 10:1 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
    17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
     
  6. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Because the Bible says....
    1. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. “ (Ephesians 2:8-9). Note: Context: It's a gift. Gifts are received one time. Context: You have been quickened or made alive (a one time event) (See: Ephesians 2:1).

    2. “What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.” (Romans 4:1-6).

    3. “But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; ” (Titus 3:4-6).

    4. “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

    5. “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Romans 10:13).

    So you are in error and not in agreement with what the Bible plainly says above here.

    Your under the false impression that your interpretation of the Bible is how things really are when it is not. I already demonstrated to you several times things in Scripture that cannot exist if things are as you say.

    Again, Romans 11:6 says:

    “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.” (Romans 11:6).

    Again, you cannot believe this above verse because you think that it is by works alone as a part of the faith. But Paul says if it be of works, then it is no more grace. I hold to the view that Paul is referring to Initial Salvation and or how we are Foundationally Saved. Therefore, there is no contradiction between James and Paul. But you take James to the extreme in that he was referring to even Initial Salvation in James 2:17, and James 2:24 when this clearly is not the case (if you were to read the context of James 2).

    The plant growing in the rocky soil is initially saved because this seed received the Word with joy. There is no joy in God's kingdom if a person is still lost. The seed would not have taken on any kind of life by growing into a plant if there was no life or eternal life in the plant. It's not a zombie plant. If a plant has life it means it has salvation. If the plant is destroyed by the rocks, it means that the plant lost it's salvation.

    So you agree with me that a belief alone in Jesus can initially save a person?

    Yes, I use this verse all the time against sin and still be saved believers. They do not think they have to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy according to Proverbs 28:13. But we are not talking about Continued Salvation in the Sanctification Process (of which I told you I already agree with), but we are talking about Initial Salvation by God's grace. For by grace ye are saved (See: Ephesians 2:5).

    Again, James is talking about continued salvation in the Sanctification Process and he is not referring to Initial Salvation. Does James refer to those in whom he is writing to as unbelievers who need to be initially saved? No. So James is talking to believers who have been already saved by God's grace.

    This is the same problem that I run into when I talk to sin and still be saved proponents on 1 John 1:9. They falsely think that confessing sin to be forgiven of sin is not dealing with salvation. This means that they can sin and still be saved whether they confess of their sins or not. I have already demonstrated to you by Luke 1:77 that salvation is tied to the forgiveness of sins. What verse gives you the erroneous conclusion that forgiveness of sins is not tied to salvation? Do you have verses to back up this false belief?

    Again, I don't think she truly knew what she was doing as if she was following some calculated formula of her thinking about the commandments. It was a natural reaction of her being forgiven of her sins to be thankful to the Lord by kissing his feet and washing his feet with her tears. She was not thinking that she needed to force cry up some tears to wash his feet so as to fulfill the command to wash each other's feet.

    But she was saved before she even shown forth her love. For why would she be grateful if she was lost? Think like a detective here and get inside people's minds. Let's use Bob as an example. If Bob was lost spiritually, and yet he was forgiven of his sins and thankful to God. Okay. What exactly is Bob being thankful for? If Bob is going to hell and yet his sins are forgiven, why on Earth would he be giving thanks to God? Bob has no real reason to be thankful to God or to love him if he is still on the road towards hell and his sins are forgiven.

    No. If this was the case, then Paul and Silas would tell the jailer to hold on because they got a long list of works that they need to write down for the jailer to do in order to be saved. But that's not what happened. They said to just believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and he would be saved. Once, the jailer entered into salvation with the Lord, then the Lord would direct Him to continue in the faith and salvation.

    I actually refuted your use of parable of the sower because the plant growing symbolizes life. Luke 8 also says that they believed for a while and in time of temptation fell away. If they were in the devil's clutches, then what exactly are they falling away from?

    I don't answer to you. I answer to God, and His holy Word defies what you stated on this matter. Again, how do you deal with Romans 11:6?
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
  7. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

    +129
    Christian
    Prophecy: "The faith saved her, and it is not the forgiveness of sins that saved her, it is the love of God shed into her heart by the Holy Ghost, which is evidence that the sins are no longer there, by living in love that works no ill to anyone any more"



    Brightfame: "Faith dont save anyone, Christ does, the object of Faith. When Faith is said to save, its a metonym for Christ."


    Faith works by love, by the love of God shed into our hearts by the Holy Ghost/the Spirit of Christ.

    Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

    Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

    Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
     
  8. RandyPNW

    RandyPNW Active Member

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    To "not walk by sight" doesn't mean we are to deny reality! It doesn't mean when we see a crime committed that we pretend we didn't see anything! To walk by faith means that we walk by something we know is true invisibly even though we can't see things physically. We aren't denying, but rather, affirming reality!

    I interpret them just as they are. You're the one claiming they contradict my view. How so? I don't think they do. To "perfect holiness" is to "finetune" our walk with God--not a perfect walk, but one firmly on the path.

    You claim to have "special info" that I have "no clue about?" There goes your humility, brother. There goes your need to edify brothers. There goes your "perfection."

    We're *not* agreeing on that. That is not how I interpret what John is saying. He's not just talking about people admitting to sin *at any time,* but specifically pointing out that *Christians* all have sin in their *Christian past.*

    I do not deny that Christians are to live a holy life, to "perfect" their walk by ensuring that they remain on the path. We already know this has nothing to do with perfection. We know that because John says that to *Christians* in 1 John 1. And we know it because of our own experience. Clearly, we're flawed people.

    I hate to see you suffer the stress you must be under trying to live perfectly. You'll have to deny reality to live that way. I want you to be free, to relax, and to enjoy God's love and grace. He *knows* we're imperfect, and loves us anyway. He just wants us to get on the right path, and to stay there. God bless.
     
  9. RandyPNW

    RandyPNW Active Member

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    Surely you understand the difference between being "cleansed" from all sin, and having all sin *completely removed* from us? Sin will not be completely removed from us until we get new immortal bodies.

    We walk in the light, but have a Sin Nature. That doesn't mean we walk in that Sin Nature, but that that Sin Nature harasses us regularly, and causes us to show our human imperfections. We can walk in Christ's love, and still show impurities as we do so.

    The important thing is that we walk in Christ's love--not that we be perfect. In fact, we *cannot* be perfect!
     
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  10. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

    +129
    Christian
    BibleHighlighter: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. “ (Ephesians 2:8-9). Note: Context: It's a gift. Gifts are received one time. Context: You have been quickened or made alive (a one time event) (See: Ephesians 2:1)."

    “But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; ” (Titus 3:4-6).




    The quote of Titus 3, we are saved by washing, and the Holy Ghost.

    The next quotes of 1 Corinthians 15, and Romans 10:13, show we stand by the Gospel as long as it is not believed vainly, and to call upon the name of the Lord to be saved..



    “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 1 Corinthians 15."

    “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Romans 10:13)."



    But all we need to do is not receive the grace of God in vain, by not giving offence in anything to blame the ministry by our sin and still filth/uncleanness, but instead to not be of vain we approved ourselves as true ministers of God by perfect patience, as only those who call in truth will be saved ( need the Spirit of truth given or can only call falsely on the Lord as many only do)..


    2 Corinthians 6:We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
    2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
    3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
    4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,

    Psalm 145:18 The Lord is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.

    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.




    BibleHighlighter: "Again, you cannot believe this above verse because you think that it is by works alone as a part of the faith. But Paul says if it be of works, then it is no more grace. I hold to the view that Paul is referring to Initial Salvation and or how we are Foundationally Saved. "





    Works are when we do not deny Christ, or works are when we deny, it is all salvation or is nonsense, and they give this false doctrine as predicted to deny Christ through evil works, or would confess purity as Christ is pure....


    Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
    16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.


    2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
     
  11. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Others and myself find it difficult to be able to sift through your replies because you are not properly quoting. Your replies reads like it is all one message and folks cannot easily or quickly tell who is speaking. In other words, people do not want to spend the effort in trying to figure out if it is you talking or somebody else talking. You will get more replies if you learn how to properly quote people, my friend.

    To help you out, you can learn how to multiquote by checking out my help tutorial by clicking on the spoiler button (if it sounds like your cup of tea).

    Introduction:

    You can see the end quote below is highlighted in blue.
    Whenever you quote a post, it will add automatically a beginning quote (with your username), and an ending quote. Again, notice the end quote highlighted below.

    [​IMG]
    Step 1. Cut and paste the end quote at the bottom and move it up to the top of the first part of the words you want to quote within a person's post. In this example (below), lets say you want to quote the words “Thank you” in order to reply to them. Just make sure you have an end quote after their words.

    You can type out this end quote yourself if needed.

    [​IMG]

    Step 2.

    Now lets say you want to quote the next words that say, “Pretty amazing thing.” Use your mouse to highlight over these words as seen in the pic below.

    [​IMG]

    Step 3.

    Click on the quote button in your toolbox.

    [​IMG]
    The result will then look like this below (after clicking on the quote button).

    [​IMG]
    Note:

    Now, lets say you want to quote the next set of words that say, “Thanks for the kind comments.”
    Just repeat step 2, and step 3, and it will look like this below.

    [​IMG]

    Step 4.

    In this next step. Lets say you want to clarify in who you are quoting in the second set of words for the person you want to quote. I like to use the word “you” when multi-quoting. But you can add the poster's name if you like. In this example: Add the “=” symbol, and then the words “you” [or the poster's name”] within the brackets (as seen in the highlighted part below).

    [​IMG]

    Step 5.

    Type in your replies. Note: An example of my reply is highlighted below. Check out the example to follow below.


    [​IMG]

    Step 6.

    Hit the red button called “Post Replyor go to the red button called “More Options” and then select the Preview option before you post, and the end result will look like this below.

    [​IMG]

    I hope this was helpful.
    And may God bless you.


    Side Note:


    If you have any questions or need help with this, let me know.

    Peace, and blessings be unto you in the Lord.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
  12. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

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    Randy: "To "perfect holiness" is to "finetune" our walk with God--not a perfect walk, but one firmly on the path."


    Nope, the testimony is, cleanse first from all imperfections, as that is what perfects holiness in the fear of God...

    2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.


    No uncleanness named once, no filthiness, or we have no inheritance and all other is vain deceiving words, as no unclean person who is disobedient avoids the wrath of God..


    Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
    4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
    5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
    6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.


    therefore, perfecting, is laying aside all filthiness, to then receive the word of the Spirit to save pour souls, to look into this perfection, and be a doer of all of the work ( not some of it or as you go along nonsense) to be blessed, by pure religion, or we deceived only ourselves, instead of being undefiled before God and to keep ourselves unspotted from the world..



    James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
    22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

    James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
    26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
    27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


    Cleansed from all filthiness, then a new heart and new Spirit, and the stone heart is gone, no nature remains, but God puts His Spirit into us to cause us to walk in His statutes and to keep His judgments and do them..

    Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.




    Randy: "Surely you understand the difference between being "cleansed" from all sin, and having all sin *completely removed* from us? Sin will not be completely removed from us until we get new immortal bodies."


    We got them, the body of sin either is, or is not destroyed by us..

    Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
     
  13. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

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    Randy: "The important thing is that we walk in Christ's love--not that we be perfect. In fact, we *cannot* be perfect!"


    You see I have no problem seeing your posts guys, its easy to answer too..

    John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

    1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

    1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

    1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

    1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
     
  14. prophecy_uk

    prophecy_uk Well-Known Member

    +129
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    BibleHighlighter: "You will get more replies if you learn how to properly quote people, my friend."


    Job 17:5 He that speaketh flattery to his friends, even the eyes of his children shall fail.

    Psalm 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.

    Micah 7:5 Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.

    Luke 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
     
  15. DaDaBrothers

    DaDaBrothers Member

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    1. James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
    2. James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
    3. Mark 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

    Your points appear to have failed you, my friend. In all the parables. Lets say I stand on the second side of the coin..
    You refuse to accept only those who bare fruit were saved, you are not talking about the same parable I am. Their joy didnt saved them did it? Their joy will be taken away.
    Except she was forgiven after she believed not before she loved the Lord, and she wasnt thankfull, she had repented and was crying begging for forgiveness, and then, she was forgiven.
    She was saved at the very last verse of the chapter, the first thing she did was repent, dont turn everything upside down please.
    You think you have, because this "symbolic" "simbol" of life bare no fruit and perished with the others. And you refuse to address: Scripture does not grant they had anything, Scripture refers to this "symbols" as what they "seemeth to have", and it will be taken away.
    Luke 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.
     
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Well, I was not referring to good truths of God's Word that we can trust in the real world, but I was referring to man's corrupted experiences that can lead them down the path of doing what is wrong.

    “There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death” (Proverbs 16:25).​

    For example: A person might think fornicating and drinking is good because it makes them feel good. They can go by their experience on how it makes them feel, but we know that these sins are hollow pleasures and it will only destroy them in the end.

    Imagine if Rick thought no man could fly by any means before the invention of the plane. Rick could show past attempts at man trying to fly and failing. So this is not a good argument to go by if one is using selfishly motivated life experiences so as to build the faith. Now, if one were to use unselfish and pure experiences, then that would be another matter. But a person has something to gain by their defense that a believer will always commit some kind of death sin in this life. What do they have to gain? Sinning of course. That's a selfish motive. So it is under suspect of being a genuine truth that God desires for our life; Especially when the Word of God says the following:

    “There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.” (1 Corinthians 10:13).​

    If you lived during Noah's time, you may have thought back then that Noah was nuts for being a preacher of righteousness (2 Peter 2:5) because nobody else besides Noah was living righteously in that world. The world during that time was full of wickedness. Do you know one of the reasons why the flood happened?

    “And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;” (2 Peter 2:5-6).​

    The flood was an example to all who would live ungodly thereafter.

    As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be at the coming of the Son of Man.
    We are living in the last days as per 2 Timothy 3:1-9. Men today are lovers of pleasures more than they are lovers of God. They have a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof. What power are they denying? The power of God to help them to overcome death sins in their lives.

    Let's read it.

    2 Corinthians 7:1
    “... let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”​

    You say that we cannot cleanse ourselves here on this earth. But 2 Corinthians 7:1 says you can. It says let us cleanse ourselves from ALL filthiness of the flesh and spirit. Note: For the purposes of this thread section here, I am going to refer to ALL as in reference to “death sins” and not “non-death sins.” Anyways, the verse continues to say that we perfect holiness in the fear of God. Do you believe that you fear God while you perfect holiness? I don't believe you can accept that at face value. You must change the word “fear” to mean something else. By what you told me, it does not sound like you have anything to fear from God.

    As for Galatians 5:24: Do you believe that they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts? You basically are telling me (by the use of other words) that believers will not stop sinning this side of Heaven (i.e. Note: For the purposes of this thread section, I am referring to “death sins,” and not Sinless Perfectionism).

    Not at all because if you were intimately familiar with 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 in what it plainly says and you accepted it for what it said at face value, then you would believe as I do. Seeing you do not accept this passage in what it plainly says, you have no idea about what it really is saying.

    You are seriously misreading 1 John 1:10.

    It says:

    “If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:10).​

    It says “if we say that we have not sinned,...”
    It does not say.... “we all have sinned as a part of our past Christian life.”

    1 John 1:10 is not the faithful believer saying this but the false gnostic who is trying to seduce or deceive the brethren. No true Christian will ever say that they have never sinned as a part of their old life before coming to Christ.

    I cannot address this topic in this section of the forums.

    But you are interpreting 1 John 1:8 in light of ignoring 1 John 2:4, and ignoring 2 Corinthians 7:1, and Galatians 5:24. You cannot slowly read these other verses and honestly say you believe every word of them without you changing them to fit your belief.

    This is the only reason you have. The Bible teaches that we can overcome sin that leads unto spiritual death.

    But that would mean I would have to toss out verses like Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 John 3:15, and Revelation 22:14-15. Sorry, I am going to follow the Word of God instead.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I have already explained to you James 2 to you. He is not referring to Initial Salvation in James 2:17, and James 2:24. I also do not see how going over the same points on the parable of the sower I made is going to help you. You clearly just do not want to see it, friend.
     
  18. DaDaBrothers

    DaDaBrothers Member

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    You are right, he is not refering to "initial salvation" because there is no such thing, he is refering to the real deal, the real salvation, and true justification.
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    So then you don't believe anyone can be saved because there is no starting point to salvation to happen in the first place. No initial point of salvation means there is no salvation to be had at all. Good luck with believing that way. That's a self refuting system or belief.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
  20. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    You are also not explaining word for word what those 6 major verses that I highlighted for you in post #166 means. I believe this is the case because your belief cannot accept what these verses say.
     
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