Discussion The Spirit of Death?

[GoldenKingGaze]

Ephesians 1:20 indicates it was the Father who exerted Himself when raising Jesus from the dead.

Death is mentioned in the judgment scene in Revelation, it is emptied out, and souls that were in it were judged based on their name being in the book of life or not.

Death is more than a mere Spirit but a force of nature that holds souls of the dead.

Death is the place people go when they die but don't go to hell.

Jesus in John 2 says He will raise Himself from the dead, and The Spirit also raises Him as mentioned elsewhere in the letters. Death was created by the angels of death and is maintained by them. Evil spirits take people to Hell. Some people remain in the grave. Tormentors stay there with them. And the Guardian Angels. I don't think you're right about death being a force in the universe. Even entropy is not death. Entropy was the same upon a young immortal Adam don't you think?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I never heard of " spirit of death" so I tried to find it in scripture but no luck there either. I do know of the Spirit of Life.
"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. "

If by chance it is another way of saying "the law of sin and death", this has to do with the "second death" suffered by those who reject their Creator. Blessings.

In Jesus and Beelzebub, Jesus mentions the warring and efficient kingdom of Satan. They have eyes everywhere, tempters, accusers, and collectors, managing an independent body of spirits of death. Does fallen Lucifer cast a shadow over the whole universe? How far does his curse kingdom extend?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Here Paul is talking to a spirit, he calls death, and I'd suppose the collection or total force of them is Hades. Paul is not afraid of dying, to him, to live is Christ and to die is gain.

I'm afraid I do not believe that death is some kind of spirit (being). Death is a physical and spiritual (not spirit) condition humans experience at the end.
Thanks for engaging!

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I don't see anything substantiating that death is a spirit in your post, however. Also, your account of the resurrection is lacking some trinity to it.

The spirits of death left the dead for Jesus crucified. And those asleep gentle started to breathe again and went home

I'm afraid I do not believe that death is some kind of spirit (being). Death is a physical and spiritual (not spirit) condition humans experience at the end.
Thanks for engaging!

who created death and holds it's power? What did Jesus wrestle with before He Rose having led captivity captive? Genesis 3:15 says He would crush the serpents head. And the serpent would bruise His heal. What is the serpent and his head?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Jesus in John 2 says He will raise Himself from the dead, and The Spirit also raises Him as mentioned elsewhere in the letters. Death was created by the angels of death and is maintained by them. Evil spirits take people to Hell. Some people remain in the grave. Tormentors stay there with them. And the Guardian Angels. I don't think you're right about death being a force in the universe. Even entropy is not death. Entropy was the same upon a young immortal Adam don't you think?

Ideology is too pagan in scope.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The spirits of death left the dead for Jesus crucified. And those asleep gentle started to breathe again and went home

Sentence structure goes a long way.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Ideology is too pagan in scope.

I don't understand your last two posts, "ideology" and "sentence structure"?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I don't understand your last two posts, "ideology" and "sentence structure"?

Sentence structure means, I couldn't make out what you meant due to a lack of sentence structure.

Ideology relates to the type of message you're teaching, it's too pagan. It resists being trinitarian and does the scripture vs scripture thing in favor of promoting an idea.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I didn't see a response to my post, just confirming I read that you responded.

Sorry I was using my android.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Sorry I was using my android.

No Worries, thanks for the discussion.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Sentence structure means, I couldn't make out what you meant due to a lack of sentence structure.

Ideology relates to the type of message you're teaching, it's too pagan. It resists being trinitarian and does the scripture vs scripture thing in favor of promoting an idea.

Right, and which scripture am I placing against another?
What is your idea of pagan?
I believe in the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, co-equal, co-existent and co-eternal, working together in the baptism and resurrection...
And the men, women, boys and girls who had died shortly before Jesus died, were released from death as the spirits holding them let go, in the attempt hold Jesus in defeat and captivity. They woke up from the sleep of death and went home. Perhaps Jesus let out a shout after His Spirit left His body.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Right, and which scripture am I placing against another?
What is your idea of pagan?
I believe in the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, co-equal, co-existent and co-eternal, working together in the baptism and resurrection...
And the men, women, boys and girls who had died shortly before Jesus died, were released from death as the spirits holding them let go, in the attempt hold Jesus in defeat and captivity. They woke up from the sleep of death and went home. Perhaps Jesus let out a shout after His Spirit left His body.

I posted a scripture from ephesians explaining who did the heavy lifting to raise Jesus from the dead. You made reference to another passage to refute that scripture. This is what I referred to as Scripture vs Scripture.

I cannot comment on what you believe on paper, what you have stated, is what you have stated.

However, the idea you were presenting that Jesus raised himself from the dead, and then the Holy Spirit raised him from the dead, when scripture says otherwise - illustrates a trinity resistant theology.

The trinitarian nature of God is one of the few distinctives of Christianity that separate us from practicing a pagan religion.

So this statement,

"And the men, women, boys and girls who had died shortly before Jesus died, were released from death as the spirits holding them let go, in the attempt hold Jesus in defeat and captivity. They woke up from the sleep of death and went home. Perhaps Jesus let out a shout after His Spirit left His body."

Compare to Matthew 27,

50When Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, He yielded up His spirit. 51At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split. 52The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53After Jesus’ resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people. 54When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified and said, “Truly this was the Son of God.”

They were not recently dead, but saints who had been dead for some time, full body resurrection, and appeared to many people.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I posted a scripture from ephesians explaining who did the heavy lifting to raise Jesus from the dead. You made reference to another passage to refute that scripture. This is what I referred to as Scripture vs Scripture.

I cannot comment on what you believe on paper, what you have stated, is what you have stated.

However, the idea you were presenting that Jesus raised himself from the dead, and then the Holy Spirit raised him from the dead, when scripture says otherwise - illustrates a trinity resistant theology.

The trinitarian nature of God is one of the few distinctives of Christianity that separate us from practicing a pagan religion.

So this statement,

"And the men, women, boys and girls who had died shortly before Jesus died, were released from death as the spirits holding them let go, in the attempt hold Jesus in defeat and captivity. They woke up from the sleep of death and went home. Perhaps Jesus let out a shout after His Spirit left His body."

Compare to Matthew 27,

50When Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, He yielded up His spirit. 51At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split. 52The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53After Jesus’ resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people. 54When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified and said, “Truly this was the Son of God.”

They were not recently dead, but saints who had been dead for some time, full body resurrection, and appeared to many people.

What I meant by the Son raises Himself and the Spirit, is that they all enacted this together. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit worked resurrection, not Father versus Son.

As in Jesus' baptism, there are together in agreement the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Your scripture does say, Jesus shouted, but not that He shouted "rise" perhaps there was no word, maybe a meaning. The saints don't need to be ancient people. If we follow Jesus we are saints. What is meant by "many"? 40? 120? 5000? 25,000?

The Jews today dispute this claim, that many saints returned home, say for example, King David, Samuel, Elisha, Isaiah, Jeremiah... they say they would have recorded such an event if it happened.

I wonder why they waited in their tombs until the resurrection of Jesus? And why was all this event, over days, seen by those crucifying Jesus?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

What I meant by the Son raises Himself and the Spirit, is that they all enacted this together. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit worked resurrection, not Father versus Son.

As in Jesus' baptism, there are together in agreement the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Your scripture does say, Jesus shouted, but not that He shouted "rise" perhaps there was no word, maybe a meaning. The saints don't need to be ancient people. If we follow Jesus we are saints. What is meant by "many"? 40? 120? 5000? 25,000?

The Jews today dispute this claim, that many saints returned home, say for example, King David, Samuel, Elisha, Isaiah, Jeremiah... they say they would have recorded such an event if it happened.

I wonder why they waited in their tombs until the resurrection of Jesus? And why was all this event, over days, seen by those crucifying Jesus?

If you don't believe what the scripture says, there's not much room for discussion.

It's difficult enough to discuss even when everyone claims to be on board.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

If you don't believe what the scripture says, there's not much room for discussion.

It's difficult enough to discuss even when everyone claims to be on board.

I am trying to interpret the scripture. I have not spent time on it before. So there are are some question to discuss. To sharpen oneself as iron on iron. As I typed in, I thought the people who rose from the dead were saints who died not long before Jesus died. Not 600 years before. Not even a month. And I am not sure if it were only in Jerusalem. And all children would be treated as saints, having slept in the grave or gone to paradise, innocent. They may have risen around the world. I have questions, what do you think?

How long after resurrections, did they live? Where were they reburied...? What did they do in the book of Acts?

After buriel, Jews would wait for months, then re-open the tomb, and put the bones in a small box called an a Ossuary.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I do actually believe scripture, looking at Roman Catholic and protestant teachings, mysticism and rationality with eclectic idea formation, which is a big job, with no trust placed in any one body or theologian. I am rereading the whole Bible through.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I am trying to interpret the scripture. I have not spent time on it before. So there are are some question to discuss. To sharpen oneself as iron on iron. As I typed in, I thought the people who rose from the dead were saints who died not long before Jesus died. Not 600 years before. Not even a month. And I am not sure if it were only in Jerusalem. And all children would be treated as saints, having slept in the grave or gone to paradise, innocent. They may have risen around the world. I have questions, what do you think?

How long after resurrections, did they live? Where were they reburied...? What did they do in the book of Acts?

After buriel, Jews would wait for months, then re-open the tomb, and put the bones in a small box called an a Ossuary.

If someone's body is vaporized by a hydrogen bomb, they can be resurrected too, yes?

I do actually believe scripture, looking at Roman Catholic and protestant teachings, mysticism and rationality with eclectic idea formation, which is a big job, with no trust placed in any one body or theologian. I am rereading the whole Bible through.

I recommend in that case to listen to an audio bible, it's easier to remember the beginning when you reach the end.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

If someone's body is vaporized by a hydrogen bomb, they can be resurrected too, yes?



I recommend in that case to listen to an audio bible, it's easier to remember the beginning when you reach the end.

I consider that the saints were in paradise or some had not yet left their bodies. And this event at the death of Jesus began the Pascal Mystery regarding the great battle between light and darkness. Yeshua and Satan. Soon after Jesus won, crushing the head of Satan, figuratively speaking, and Jesus was in Paradise with the good thief and the saints. Jesus led captivity captive in a procession, as Christ.

From Matthew on the resurrection at Jesus' death, an Earth quake opened tombs that the Roman soldiers saw. And they were asleep like the little girl Jesus raised, I think they were physically whole, not in ossuaries. Otherwise even Abraham could have risen and Moses and Jeremiah... who were to see the procession. Who coming back to life from paradise would have appeared radiant, as in the transfiguration...

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Also, which houses could Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Jeremiah and others from 500 plus years before, go home to? On return from exile, the city was rebuilt from rubble.

 

[ARBITER01]

I'm afraid I do not believe that death is some kind of spirit (being). Death is a physical and spiritual (not spirit) condition humans experience at the end.
Thanks for engaging!

It isn't,... but some people think they see all sorts of things in scripture that isn't there.