The soul: Mortal or Immortal?
- Thread starter nikolai_42
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As for me, I don't see evidence for an immortal soul. There is no indication of such in the bible. Ezekiel says that the soul that sins ("...the soul that sinneth IT shall die) shall die. Jesus says that we aren't to fear who can destroy only the body, but who can destroy both body and soul in hell (i.e. God). And because I am sure the body isn't immortal (dust to dust), then I fully believe that the soul and body could both have the same fate - death.
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Nickolai_42 I also have questions that move in tandem with yours. I will present a few of them and perhaps we can go along from there.
Soul= Nephesh=
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=05315&version=kjv
Nephesh Rooted In Naphesh
Naphesh=
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=05314&version=kjv
Soul= Psuche
Psuche=
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=5590&version=
Psuche Rooted In Psucho
Psucho=
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=5594&version=
Questions
1. Define the soul.
2. Define the spirit.
2. Are the soul and spirit synonomous?
3. Is man a dichotomy, or trichotomy?....Is man spirit/soul & body, or, spirit & soul & body?
4. Do lower animals have souls? If lower animals have souls then....
5. Define the difference between man and animal souls, or is there a difference?
6. There are 432 Scriptures in the Old and New Covenant with the word soul....
Old= 396 and New= 36.
Is the soul immortal?
7. Define from the Ancient Words the immortality of .....
A. The spirit of man.
B. The soul of man.
8. Is man a compound unity?
9. Can the whole man be separated in this life, and to what extent?
10. What does the following mean to you?
"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly/ hallow you completely/ consecrate you through and through:
and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blamesless/be preserved entire, without blame unto the appearing/ coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thess. 5:23
For yonder a light shines eternal,
Which spreads through the valley of gloom;
Lord Jesus, resplendent and regal,
Drives fear away from the tomb.
Our God is the end of the journey,
His pleasant and glorious domain;
For there are the children of mercy,
Who praise Him for Calvary's pain.
Soul= Nephesh=
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=05315&version=kjv
Nephesh Rooted In Naphesh
Naphesh=
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=05314&version=kjv
Soul= Psuche
Psuche=
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=5590&version=
Psuche Rooted In Psucho
Psucho=
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=5594&version=
Questions
1. Define the soul.
2. Define the spirit.
2. Are the soul and spirit synonomous?
3. Is man a dichotomy, or trichotomy?....Is man spirit/soul & body, or, spirit & soul & body?
4. Do lower animals have souls? If lower animals have souls then....
5. Define the difference between man and animal souls, or is there a difference?
6. There are 432 Scriptures in the Old and New Covenant with the word soul....
Old= 396 and New= 36.
Is the soul immortal?
7. Define from the Ancient Words the immortality of .....
A. The spirit of man.
B. The soul of man.
8. Is man a compound unity?
9. Can the whole man be separated in this life, and to what extent?
10. What does the following mean to you?
"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly/ hallow you completely/ consecrate you through and through:
and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blamesless/be preserved entire, without blame unto the appearing/ coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thess. 5:23
For yonder a light shines eternal,
Which spreads through the valley of gloom;
Lord Jesus, resplendent and regal,
Drives fear away from the tomb.
Our God is the end of the journey,
His pleasant and glorious domain;
For there are the children of mercy,
Who praise Him for Calvary's pain.
Upvote
0
Thank you for responding, Finelinen. I will try to answer the questions you posed, as no one else has yet seen fit to respond. (BTW, nikolai_42 has no c.)
1. and 2. I'm combining these two because they are so close together. I don't have a good grasp on either, but believe that the soul is the seat of one's emotions, the deeper things of the flesh reside here, but not deeper things of the spirit. The spirit, however, responds to the voice of God. Spirit must be worshipped in spirit and Ecclesiastes says God gave us the spirit and it returns to Him when we die. So I would have to say that Spirit is that part of us that can communicate with God (2-way communication). The soul is that part of us that dwells in earthly realms - Adam was made a living soul. So spirit and soul aren't synonymous, but they are VERY close. So close that it requires the Word of God in us to discern between them!
3. Man is a dichotomy at times, yes!
, but I think the thing you are looking for is if man is bipartite or tripartite (two or three parts). I have little doubt that he is tripartite. 4. and 5. I don't know the answers here. This is something God will have to straighten out. I would say that animals have souls, but I'm not sure they are living souls. Adam was made a living soul, but I believe it was because he was given that life by a life giving Spirit. That's what Jesus was. By Him all things were created and Adam, specifically, was made a LIVING SOUL. So I would say that animals have a soul, but not a living soul if that makes sense. Otherwise, I would think God would think it murder to sacrifice an otherwise innocent animal.
6. Is the soul immortal? No. I don't believe it is. There are many reasons I don't believe that. Some are in my first post.
7. Paraphrasing.....
A. The spirit returns to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes). So, being of God, it must be immortal.
B. The soul that sinneth, IT shall die. So I would say that it isn't immortal, but mortal.
8. Since I believe man to be a tripartite being...he is ABSOLUTELY a compound unity. Heck, he was made in the image of God. ("Let US make man in OUR image..."). But when cast out of Eden, he then took on corruption and lives in the realm of death. So at the least, I would say that the soul is mortal, but that it can put on immortality under the right conditions.
9. I'm not sure what you mean by 'separated' in this life? Can you expand on that? I believe that the spirit has to be made alive to God (more that we have to dwell in that realm where we live in faith - in the things of the spirit). And the Word of God (active, living Word of God dwelling in us) will divide between the soul and the spirit, between our thoughts and our intents, between divine and corrupt.
10. That verse in Thessalonians is one I've come across several times and each time it strikes me that Paul is saying that there are three parts to man and that each CAN be preserved blameless before God. If the soul is not blameless, then it must, according to the prophet, die. The spirit will return to God and the flesh will be destroyed along with the soul. (The nature of that destruction is in some dispute, but Jesus says we are to fear Him who can destroy body and soul in hell).
What do you say to all these things, Finelinen? How do you answer those questions?
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Hi ya Nikolai_42....I ask questions, I hope for answers. Last year I met on line a young fresh out of Divinity School lad who had perfected his doctrines to within 2 small points. How sweet it is! It reminds me of the young person who at 16 was discouraged with how ignorant his parents were on so many things. He was greatly blessed to discover in his early twenties how much they had learned.
Give me a night to think on what you have posted, and hopefully I will return....do not say "good grief!" In the meantime, let me introduce you to a couple of brethren who have been a great blessing to my old heart and soul and spirit and body. But first, greetings to Wanda Mason
Study On Spirit & Soul By Wanda Mason
http://www.gospelassemblyfree.com/facts/spiritsoul.htm
The Latent Power Of The Soul By Watchman Nee
http://www.gospelassemblyfree.com/facts/latentsoul.htm
What Is Man By T.Austin Sparks
http://thekingdomofgod.tripod.com/whatis.htm
I see the Lord high and lifted up,
And His glory fills the earth,
His face shines like the sun,
It is light to everyone.
And the glory that falls on me,
Is the glory that sets me free.
Angels cry holy is the Lord,
Seated on the praises of His people.
Nations cry worthy is the Lamb,
Saviour of the world, He is exalted.
Give me a night to think on what you have posted, and hopefully I will return....do not say "good grief!" In the meantime, let me introduce you to a couple of brethren who have been a great blessing to my old heart and soul and spirit and body. But first, greetings to Wanda Mason
Study On Spirit & Soul By Wanda Mason
http://www.gospelassemblyfree.com/facts/spiritsoul.htm
The Latent Power Of The Soul By Watchman Nee
http://www.gospelassemblyfree.com/facts/latentsoul.htm
What Is Man By T.Austin Sparks
http://thekingdomofgod.tripod.com/whatis.htm
I see the Lord high and lifted up,
And His glory fills the earth,
His face shines like the sun,
It is light to everyone.
And the glory that falls on me,
Is the glory that sets me free.
Angels cry holy is the Lord,
Seated on the praises of His people.
Nations cry worthy is the Lamb,
Saviour of the world, He is exalted.
Upvote
0
Nikolai_42 you posted....
FineLinen
We are in agreement here Nikolai, and methinks we are in agreement throughout. The soul is closely aligned with the spirit of man. It is as close as joints and marrow, as the thoughts and intent of the heart. I am convinced at this point in my old grumpy life that the fall of man is more far reaching than any of us truly grasp! Sin (my rights to myself) has affected every dimension of man's being, and requires a mighty invasion of Glory to transform and change us from the inside out. And so redemption is actually in three stages of present continuous uplift and transformation.
1. Who delivered us from so great a death. (Past)
2. And doth deliver (Present Continuous)
3. In whom we trust that He will yet deliver.
Rhoumai, is the working whereby the Eternal One draws us to Himself in deliverance and rescue on the negative side, if you will; and methistemi, which is the working whereby we are transposed & transfered from one place to another. I think this is what is happening in 1 Thess. 5:23 when our Lord speaks of being preserved "wholly" (holoteles), and means to be perfect and complete, or complete in all parts without blemish or defect, encompassing being without censure. "Preserved" (terco) means to keep in a state in which one is.
It is my firm conviction that the soul of man has paraded around in place of the spirit of man, as a result of disintegration, and a sleep to which Adam 1 never awoke when his being was separated into two parts....and the one became two, but a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife and the two shall become one flesh. Oh the mysteries that surround us! One+ one =1....welcome to God math!
Not only is man compound in unity, (disunity under the curse), but we are not complete in ourselves either as a man or a woman. And along this line the apostle Paul speaks of the musterion (mystery) of Christ Jesus and His glorious Church. "I speak a mystery." How does this all apply? Oh my friend, the depths of the laminar spheres of the unspeakable unknown, beckon to us today.
Just one last little thing for now. The change that must transpire with those who are not configuring themselves according to spirit of this age, or in those who are not being squeezed into the world's mold is along the line of butterflies. "Be ye transformed/transfigured by the complete renewal of your mind..."
Renewal= Anakaionosis=
Renewal/ renovation/ complete change for the better.
Anakaionosis Rooted In Anakainoo
Anakainoo=
Changed into a new kind of life.
To grow up/ to cause to grow up/ to make new.
Transformed= Metamorphoo
Metamorphoo=
To change from one form into another.
To transform.
To transfigure.
Oh yes, Fine Linen has again taken a turn again. Please bear with me. We shall be changed, in an atomos. And the change is by allasso. How far does our Father's glorious redemption flow? And how does any of this apply to what is the subject of this thread?
Allasso=
To change.
To exchange one thing for another.
To transform,
Cannot be cut into two or divided/ indivisible.
Not to do with time, but substance.
Nikolai, I appreciate your fine post.
"Earth's crammed with heaven, and every common bush afire with God; and only he who sees takes off his shoes." Eliz. B. Browning
FineLinen
We are in agreement here Nikolai, and methinks we are in agreement throughout. The soul is closely aligned with the spirit of man. It is as close as joints and marrow, as the thoughts and intent of the heart. I am convinced at this point in my old grumpy life that the fall of man is more far reaching than any of us truly grasp! Sin (my rights to myself) has affected every dimension of man's being, and requires a mighty invasion of Glory to transform and change us from the inside out. And so redemption is actually in three stages of present continuous uplift and transformation.
1. Who delivered us from so great a death. (Past)
2. And doth deliver (Present Continuous)
3. In whom we trust that He will yet deliver.
Rhoumai, is the working whereby the Eternal One draws us to Himself in deliverance and rescue on the negative side, if you will; and methistemi, which is the working whereby we are transposed & transfered from one place to another. I think this is what is happening in 1 Thess. 5:23 when our Lord speaks of being preserved "wholly" (holoteles), and means to be perfect and complete, or complete in all parts without blemish or defect, encompassing being without censure. "Preserved" (terco) means to keep in a state in which one is.
It is my firm conviction that the soul of man has paraded around in place of the spirit of man, as a result of disintegration, and a sleep to which Adam 1 never awoke when his being was separated into two parts....and the one became two, but a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife and the two shall become one flesh. Oh the mysteries that surround us! One+ one =1....welcome to God math!
Not only is man compound in unity, (disunity under the curse), but we are not complete in ourselves either as a man or a woman. And along this line the apostle Paul speaks of the musterion (mystery) of Christ Jesus and His glorious Church. "I speak a mystery." How does this all apply? Oh my friend, the depths of the laminar spheres of the unspeakable unknown, beckon to us today.
Just one last little thing for now. The change that must transpire with those who are not configuring themselves according to spirit of this age, or in those who are not being squeezed into the world's mold is along the line of butterflies. "Be ye transformed/transfigured by the complete renewal of your mind..."
Renewal= Anakaionosis=
Renewal/ renovation/ complete change for the better.
Anakaionosis Rooted In Anakainoo
Anakainoo=
Changed into a new kind of life.
To grow up/ to cause to grow up/ to make new.
Transformed= Metamorphoo
Metamorphoo=
To change from one form into another.
To transform.
To transfigure.
Oh yes, Fine Linen has again taken a turn again. Please bear with me. We shall be changed, in an atomos. And the change is by allasso. How far does our Father's glorious redemption flow? And how does any of this apply to what is the subject of this thread?
Allasso=
To change.
To exchange one thing for another.
To transform,
Cannot be cut into two or divided/ indivisible.
Not to do with time, but substance.
Nikolai, I appreciate your fine post.
"Earth's crammed with heaven, and every common bush afire with God; and only he who sees takes off his shoes." Eliz. B. Browning
Upvote
0
Hi there Nikolai....I am exercised this morning with #9 and the word in
Heb. 4:12
"For the word of God is quick (zao), and powerful (energes), and more cutting than any knife with two edges, piercing (diikneomai) asunder/ penetrating as far as a dividing of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is able to judge the impulses and designs of the heart."
We become comfortable with the Bible. But the Living Word, the Zao Life of our God, who is a consuming fire dividing asunder the thoughts and intents of the heart "and strikes through to the place where soul and spirit meet, is the dimension where our Lord takes us as we walk with Him. Have you ever wondered why the overcomers of the Revelation are not hurt by the Lake of Fire? It is evident that if we are to walk with Him in glory, we must know what it is to die daily. Deserts are for that very purpose, and so is the cross. I like what A.W.Tozer wrote regarding the cross....
"The purpose of the cross is to do away with you, blessed riddance."
It seems to me that the overcomers of our Lord, those enrolled in the Book of Rememberance, have walked in the fire of the flaming swords swirling in every direction. They have had their spirits separated from their souls by the energes of the Holy Ghost. They have walked in the fire, breathed the fire, and known the Fire of the Lord in their whole man. They know what it is to be baptized in the Katharos River and know the Lord who baptizes in Spirit & Fire. They drink of the fire that flows from His throne. Of course, they cannot be "hurt" by the second death....they have already experienced death in the manifold dimensions of our Lord's Presence and have come to the end of themselves, blessed riddance.
All aspects of our Lord's Realm are bathed in the fire of His Presence & I see our being moving from glory to glory in spontaneous vibrations. The soul that sinneth indeed shall die. But destruction and death are centered in restoration. I looked at 22 words for destruction in the Old Covenant the other day and found a number of them that encompassed life out of death and destruction....the breaking forth into newness of life, being brought to a close etc. We read of those who have been fitted for destruction by our God who in longsuffering. And all we can see is destruction. But what does fitted mean?
Katartizo=
To mend what has been broken or rent.
To repair.
To complete/ put in order/ arrange/ adjust.
To perfect/ to complete/ to make one what it aught to be.
Well glory to God! Our Lord mends what he rents and breaks. He repairs. He arranges and adjusts. He puts in order and makes one what it aught to be! How does this apply to the original thought of soul and spirit? Well, there is a vast re-arranging to be done in the sons of Adam one. It begins with welcoming the Christ of God into ones being,and culminates with Him bathing us in the Fire of His throne and the effulgence of His glory. The mighty Adjustment of the Glory One continues!
"Blessed are the katharos in heart for they shall see God."
"Street of Katharos gold."
"City of Katharos gold."
"Angels clothed in katharos garments."
"Worship the Glory One with "a katharos heart fervently."
"Bodies washed in katharos water."
"Call unto God with a katharos heart."
"Serve the Lord out of a katharos conscience."
"Holding the musterion of the faith out of a katharos conscience."
"Love out of a kathoros heart."
"Aroused your katharos minds."
"Heilikrines and blameless until the Day of Christ."
The word pure is based in the word our Lord uses for Fire...Pur. All aspects of His realm, all aspects of His purposes are bathed in Pur.
Heilikrines=
Pure/ unsullied/ sincere.
Found pure when unfolded and examined by the sun's light.
Heb. 4:12
"For the word of God is quick (zao), and powerful (energes), and more cutting than any knife with two edges, piercing (diikneomai) asunder/ penetrating as far as a dividing of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is able to judge the impulses and designs of the heart."
We become comfortable with the Bible. But the Living Word, the Zao Life of our God, who is a consuming fire dividing asunder the thoughts and intents of the heart "and strikes through to the place where soul and spirit meet, is the dimension where our Lord takes us as we walk with Him. Have you ever wondered why the overcomers of the Revelation are not hurt by the Lake of Fire? It is evident that if we are to walk with Him in glory, we must know what it is to die daily. Deserts are for that very purpose, and so is the cross. I like what A.W.Tozer wrote regarding the cross....
"The purpose of the cross is to do away with you, blessed riddance."
It seems to me that the overcomers of our Lord, those enrolled in the Book of Rememberance, have walked in the fire of the flaming swords swirling in every direction. They have had their spirits separated from their souls by the energes of the Holy Ghost. They have walked in the fire, breathed the fire, and known the Fire of the Lord in their whole man. They know what it is to be baptized in the Katharos River and know the Lord who baptizes in Spirit & Fire. They drink of the fire that flows from His throne. Of course, they cannot be "hurt" by the second death....they have already experienced death in the manifold dimensions of our Lord's Presence and have come to the end of themselves, blessed riddance.
All aspects of our Lord's Realm are bathed in the fire of His Presence & I see our being moving from glory to glory in spontaneous vibrations. The soul that sinneth indeed shall die. But destruction and death are centered in restoration. I looked at 22 words for destruction in the Old Covenant the other day and found a number of them that encompassed life out of death and destruction....the breaking forth into newness of life, being brought to a close etc. We read of those who have been fitted for destruction by our God who in longsuffering. And all we can see is destruction. But what does fitted mean?
Katartizo=
To mend what has been broken or rent.
To repair.
To complete/ put in order/ arrange/ adjust.
To perfect/ to complete/ to make one what it aught to be.
Well glory to God! Our Lord mends what he rents and breaks. He repairs. He arranges and adjusts. He puts in order and makes one what it aught to be! How does this apply to the original thought of soul and spirit? Well, there is a vast re-arranging to be done in the sons of Adam one. It begins with welcoming the Christ of God into ones being,and culminates with Him bathing us in the Fire of His throne and the effulgence of His glory. The mighty Adjustment of the Glory One continues!
"Blessed are the katharos in heart for they shall see God."
"Street of Katharos gold."
"City of Katharos gold."
"Angels clothed in katharos garments."
"Worship the Glory One with "a katharos heart fervently."
"Bodies washed in katharos water."
"Call unto God with a katharos heart."
"Serve the Lord out of a katharos conscience."
"Holding the musterion of the faith out of a katharos conscience."
"Love out of a kathoros heart."
"Aroused your katharos minds."
"Heilikrines and blameless until the Day of Christ."
The word pure is based in the word our Lord uses for Fire...Pur. All aspects of His realm, all aspects of His purposes are bathed in Pur.
Heilikrines=
Pure/ unsullied/ sincere.
Found pure when unfolded and examined by the sun's light.
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0
Nikolai_42...let's look at number 6 for a moment.....Is the soul immortal? There are many Scriptures that link the soul with the mind, the heart, and a mans life. The soul is the seat of the emotions and appears to be closely associated with this aspect of this life. We read of fainting in your minds, the word "mind"... fainting in your "souls." Heb. 12:3
"Doing the will of God from the heart." Heart= soul. Eph. 6:6
"Stand in one spirit with one mind" Mind= soul. Phil. 1:27
"Not regarding his life." Life= soul. Phil. 2:30
"Thoughts and intents of the heart. Heart= soul. Heb. 4:12
But we also read of another aspect of the soul which we should consider...
What does the following mean?
1. " Let them that suffer according to the will of God, commit the keeping of their souls to Him in well doing; as unto a faithful Creator." Is the keeping of the soul to our Faithful Creator only for this present life?
2. "He laid down His life/soul for us." Is the laying down of His life/soul only blood related?
3. What does the returning to the Shepherd & Bishop of our souls mean? Is our soul in this instance only life/mind/heart?
4. 1 Peter 1:9 "Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls." What does the salvation of the soul involve? What is the salvation of the soul? Is it only the heart/mind/ seat of the emotions that is the end of our faith, or more encompassing?
5. Our Lord declares, "My soul hath no pleasure" (Heb. 10:39) Our God is Spirit, but the indication here is that our Lord's Being also encompasses soul life. Could it be that those created in His compound likeness, also will possess restored souls, in union with their restored spirits to fellowship with Him?
Questions...questions and at the base of our Lord Musterion, Musterion!
"Doing the will of God from the heart." Heart= soul. Eph. 6:6
"Stand in one spirit with one mind" Mind= soul. Phil. 1:27
"Not regarding his life." Life= soul. Phil. 2:30
"Thoughts and intents of the heart. Heart= soul. Heb. 4:12
But we also read of another aspect of the soul which we should consider...
What does the following mean?
1. " Let them that suffer according to the will of God, commit the keeping of their souls to Him in well doing; as unto a faithful Creator." Is the keeping of the soul to our Faithful Creator only for this present life?
2. "He laid down His life/soul for us." Is the laying down of His life/soul only blood related?
3. What does the returning to the Shepherd & Bishop of our souls mean? Is our soul in this instance only life/mind/heart?
4. 1 Peter 1:9 "Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls." What does the salvation of the soul involve? What is the salvation of the soul? Is it only the heart/mind/ seat of the emotions that is the end of our faith, or more encompassing?
5. Our Lord declares, "My soul hath no pleasure" (Heb. 10:39) Our God is Spirit, but the indication here is that our Lord's Being also encompasses soul life. Could it be that those created in His compound likeness, also will possess restored souls, in union with their restored spirits to fellowship with Him?
Questions...questions and at the base of our Lord Musterion, Musterion!
Upvote
0
FOMWatts<><
Follower of the Way
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All Greek aside...LOL!
I have very simple beliefs and take the Bible at face value.
1Corinthians 1
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
So my answer lies in which side of the cross you are on. If you are a believer your soul will live forever...
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Eternal means forever! Pretty simple to me, but hey I don't know all those Greek terms so maybe I have been fooled all these years...maybe the only way to God is through Jesuits and I just got the wrong context of the Greek word Yaweh( or however you spell it)!!!
Blessings,
FOMWatts<><
I have very simple beliefs and take the Bible at face value.
1Corinthians 1
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
So my answer lies in which side of the cross you are on. If you are a believer your soul will live forever...
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Eternal means forever! Pretty simple to me, but hey I don't know all those Greek terms so maybe I have been fooled all these years...maybe the only way to God is through Jesuits and I just got the wrong context of the Greek word Yaweh( or however you spell it
)!!!Blessings,
FOMWatts<><
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Today at 10:38 AM FOMWatts<>< said this in Post #10
All Greek aside...LOL!
I have very simple beliefs and take the Bible at face value.
1Corinthians 1
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
So my answer lies in which side of the cross you are on. If you are a believer your soul will live forever...
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Eternal means forever! Pretty simple to me, but hey I don't know all those Greek terms so maybe I have been fooled all these years...maybe the only way to God is through Jesuits and I just got the wrong context of the Greek word Yaweh( or however you spell it
Blessings,
FOMWatts<><
Ahhh, but FW, I don't know Greek either! The question I had was of the mortal or immortal soul. Now man certainly isn't just another animal, but more than that. And one of the things that sets him apart and above the rest of creation is his ability to reason, but also his ability to communicate with God. Man certainly is fearfully and wonderfully made, and while it is true what you say about those perishing vs. those not perishing, the question is, what perishes? What remains? What is man? And if the soul is immortal, why does Ezekiel say that the soul that sinneth IT shall die? And Jesus talks about God DESTROYING the soul and body in hell. But then we have Paul praying that the entire spirit (1), soul (2) and body (3) be preserved blameless. Man is not just a lump of creation, he is finely designed and there are many things to Him that the natural eye cannot detect.
This is what I'm getting at.
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I believe that the soul is immortal. I just can't believe that when you die there is literally nothing left of you. I mean the body to me is nothing when you die it just disinegrates to nothing, but the immortal soul still lives on and rises to heaven to be in the kingdom of God.
God Bless
God Bless
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I agree with you, YEC_12, I don't think there is nothing left either. BUT ... what about the spirit?
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Genesis 2:7 - And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Notice, that it says "living" soul, not immortal soul. If we have an immortal soul, then why did God place the Cherubims and flaming sword to keep man away from the tree of life?
Ecclesiastes 9:5 - For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 - Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:10 - Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
If man has an immortal soul, then why is there no knowledge, or wisdom when we die?
If man has an immortal soul, then why the need for the resurrection?
1 Corinthians 15:12 - Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 - But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 - And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 - Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 - For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 - And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 - Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 - If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 - But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 - For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 - For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 - But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 - Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 - For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 - The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
And finally, if man has an immortal soul, the why is death an enemy?
Notice, that it says "living" soul, not immortal soul. If we have an immortal soul, then why did God place the Cherubims and flaming sword to keep man away from the tree of life?
Ecclesiastes 9:5 - For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 - Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:10 - Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
If man has an immortal soul, then why is there no knowledge, or wisdom when we die?
If man has an immortal soul, then why the need for the resurrection?
1 Corinthians 15:12 - Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 - But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 - And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 - Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 - For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 - And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 - Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 - If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 - But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 - For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 - For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 - But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 - Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 - For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 - The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
And finally, if man has an immortal soul, the why is death an enemy?
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Drmmjr made excellent points! Add this to that=Numbers, 31:28
And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:A "soul" is a living breathing thing. Thus Adam "became" a living soul" he didnt get one. If a soul left the body and went to heaven,hell,pugatory or limbo-whats the need for a resurrection day? It would be done at death! No, God remembers a person and resurrects him when the resurrection occurs during the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ to life on Earth. Others are resurrected to heavenly life to make up the Kingdom government of God.Daniel 2:44 These are called part of the 1st resurrection and have specific jobs in heaven Rev.20:6 Gotta go now! I like this forum though!
And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:A "soul" is a living breathing thing. Thus Adam "became" a living soul" he didnt get one. If a soul left the body and went to heaven,hell,pugatory or limbo-whats the need for a resurrection day? It would be done at death! No, God remembers a person and resurrects him when the resurrection occurs during the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ to life on Earth. Others are resurrected to heavenly life to make up the Kingdom government of God.Daniel 2:44 These are called part of the 1st resurrection and have specific jobs in heaven Rev.20:6 Gotta go now! I like this forum though!
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.... death is an enemy because death is a result of sin. It is not from God and it will be finally conquered...
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Make difference between ressurection as you state and ressurerction in spiritual body (1 Cor. 15)
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Try not to interprete verses torn out of context. If you look in other parts of the Bible, you'll see, that soul, for instance, can not be killed. Thus, term "living" by no means exclude "immortal". Where did you get that idea from?
Ecclesiastes speaks that there is no ressurection at all ("they have no hope under the sun"). So, if you base your beliefs on that single verse, you should recognize, that not only soul is mortal, but there is no ressurection at all... Try to make a deeper analise. Ecclesiastes put questions, he did not make prophesies. You may as well base your beliefs on the philosophy of Job's friends who were finally rebuked by God for their reasoning.
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Sometimes, there appears a confusion, between meanings of terms "soul". For example, in Ezechiel it is written that sul which sins will die. In other parts, it is written that soul can not die etc.
The problem is that term "soul" is utilised, in every day language, as well as in the Biblie with two meaninngs: 1. "soul" as human being in whole ("the meeting was attended by 5000 souls") 2. "soul" as an essence separate from flesh, which endures (1 Tes. 5:23). Respectively, if meaning "human being" the soul, of course, is mortal. As a soul itself, it lives forever.
The problem is that term "soul" is utilised, in every day language, as well as in the Biblie with two meaninngs: 1. "soul" as human being in whole ("the meeting was attended by 5000 souls") 2. "soul" as an essence separate from flesh, which endures (1 Tes. 5:23). Respectively, if meaning "human being" the soul, of course, is mortal. As a soul itself, it lives forever.
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