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The sins of the father

Discussion in 'Struggles by Non-Christians' started by primarymay, Nov 24, 2017.

  1. primarymay

    primarymay Member

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    Throwing your sins on Jesus is the ultimate get out of jail free card. But how in the world do you take further responsibility for the behavior that follows your sin nature. Do you keep throwing your sins on Jesus time and time again, but never reaching a point where you do something about how you are?

    Are you incapable of personal transformation without Jesus? If so, now what do I care. I know the nightmare it is to believe you can't do anything without celestial intervention.

    If Jesus does nothing, then you are left with nothing. He could have at least left an access point to valuable recovery information, in each person.

    Ah what God can't do is experience sinfulness.

    Hey, would it be funny if Benny Hinn became a Buddhist. I can see that happening, and doesn't Joyce Myer have a face that looks like a clown.

    I noticed that she colour coordinates her nails with the bible shes using.

    Is that really necessary?
     
  2. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Evangelical Catholic Supporter

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    Do not underestimate the value of faith, hope, and love in personal transformation.
     
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  3. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

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    A man is in the deep dark, stumbling and blindfolded. Sometimes he hears some strange noises. They don't sound friendly. Suddenly, someone takes the blindfold off. In the distance, he sees a light. "I'm saved!" he thinks.

    And he is. And there's nothing he could have done to save himself. But he had better start moving towards that Light, which he is invited to, no matter how far away it was when he saw it. If he chooses to stay in the darkness, that's another problem entirely. Eventually the blindfold will come back on if he does.

    John 3:19-21

    I'd recommend staying away from the TV evangelists and reading some C.S. Lewis. Better yet, read the Gospels and do your own study of them, see what they speak to you and what was actually said. We all have to do what it takes. I am in recovery from alcoholism and other addictions and I go to 2 or 3 meetings a week, plus Church and bible studies. God works with us if we want to, but if you want to change yourself and not kid yourself, do what it takes. Christ is True North. It's true sins are forgiven, no matter where you are or how far down you've gone. But if someone has seen the light and all they are doing is throwing more and more sins out to be forgiven, well then they aren't really moving closer to it, are they? They are moving further away. And that's not a good place to be.
     
  4. primarymay

    primarymay Member

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    If I was in a good place, I'd be a Christian for sure.

    For Jesus died the greatest positive man has seen.
     
  5. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

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    True North is True North no matter where you are or how far you get from it, or which direction you are facing. It will never stop being True North. All Christians start in a bad place. Repentance is about turning and facing True North. The walk is a journey into Christ.

    If you could with your own life bring him back here, would that be worth doing? If you could have his Spirit instead of your own, would that be worth having? That was the offer he put on the table, after we killed Him. Redemption. Amnesty. Service. Sonship. Eternal Life - not in the 'just existing' sense, but in the Living sense.

    It's a good offer. And the Resurrection was proof that He had the authority to make it. The world where Jesus dies a good man on the cross and stays dead, is a completely different world from the world where He resurrects from death on the cross as the Son of God. His death and resurrection are the invitation to that world.

    So, I don't know what place you are in, but Christianity is not meant to be a get-out-of-jail free-and-stay-as-you are card. As I understand it, is FAR, FAR deeper than that. It is an invitation to repentance and transformation. And a new Spirit. Seek it. Genuinely and deeply and daily seek it. Seek help seeking it. And see what you find.

    Luke 5:32

    I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.

    John 1:9-12

    9 The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but born of God.

    True North.
     
  6. primarymay

    primarymay Member

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    And here I thought the God of Genesis warned us not to accept anything that the snake said was good or evil.

    See not even Jesus good fruit will save us, since having good fruit is what potentially tricked Eve.

    Funny enough, Jesus recommended that we should either make our tree good or evil.

    Matthew 12:33-35King James Version (KJV)
    33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

    But there's a serious flaw in his theology. The God of Genesis warned Adam, not to eat of the tree of good or evil period.

    And now, Jesus recommends we do?
     
  7. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Right there is your mistake, if you are going to quote Scripture, then please make sure it's Scripture you are quoting, and not what you think or believe the Scripture says.

    Here is what the actual Scripture does say.

    Gen. 2:17
    But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    Notice it's not the Tree of Good and Evil, it's the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

    There is a big difference between the two, the one we find in Scripture is the Knowledge of, while the one you believe exists is the (Tree of Good or Evil).

    You see, Adam was Created innocent, he did not have the knowledge of good and evil, this knowledge was something which God had, but He did not give that knowledge to Adam, because man, being human, a lesser than God, is not capable of having that knowledge, without sinning.

    Notice this, there was another Tree in the Garden as well.

    Gen. 2:9
    And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    There wasn't any prohibition made on eating from the Tree of Life,
    therefore we can assume Adam did eat of it, but when he ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil he died Spiritually, he became susceptible to temptation because of the knowledge he now possessed.

    The Tree we are told to eat of where there is Good Fruit, it the Tree of Life which is Jesus the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

    As I see it, your misunderstanding is, you believed that the Tree had two different types of Fruit, one Good, one Evil, that would mean Eve had a 50,/ 50 chance of getting Good Fruit, that isn't so, the Tree did not bear two kinds of Fruit, it only bore the Fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

    His Theology is fine, it's your Theology which is mistaken because of your misreading and misunderstanding of what Scripture actually does say.

    So now with this true understanding, it isn't a question of your being in a better place at all, it only remains for you to make the decision to believe Jesus is the only way to the Father.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  8. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

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    Seek God in repentance for a change of heart.

    Believe on Christ as sent from God with the authority and power to make that offer. That's what he was saying in Matthew 12:33-35. When the tree is bad, the fruit is bad, when the tree is good, the fruit is good. The problem isn't just our actions, it's the whole heart of us. We need a new spirit, a Holy one. Else the tree stays bad, and the fruit of it can only be bitter. Christ is God's offer to rescue us from ourselves and into Him.

    Luke 11:11-13
     
  9. primarymay

    primarymay Member

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    Who says I haven't done that!

    Who says I haven bent my knee a thousand times to reach the mercy seat of this god. I tell you I've even done this a thousand more, but there's no rescuer here.
     
  10. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    ”For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” 2 Corinthians 5:21

    ” Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,” Philippians 2:12

    “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.” John 15:5

    16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of Goda]" style="box-sizing: border-box">[a]may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” 2 Timothy 3:16-17

    “14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.” Hebrews 4:14-16

    3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” Matthew 7:3-5
     
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