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The Significance Of The Passover Attack on Israel

Discussion in 'Israel Prophecy & Current Events' started by GW, Mar 29, 2002.

  1. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    --by Don Preston

    On Wednesday, 3-27-02, a suicide bomber blew himself, and at least 19 Israelis into eternity. This is the latest in a series of escalating attacks against Israel, and will, of course, lead to serious retaliation by Israel. What many may be missing--in fact, some will not want to hear--is that the attack on Wednesday, taking place on Passover, has tremendous theological implications.

    Hal Lindsey insists that Israel remains the chosen people of God. In an article posted earlier, Jim Inhofe, Oklahoma senator, said that Israel has the divine right to the land because of Genesis 13. It is no secret that one of the pillars of modern dispensationalism is the view that Israel remains God's chosen, exclusive people.

    In 1967 the Arab league, led by Egypt, attacked Israel on Yom Kippur, the
    Day of Atonement. This is one of Israel's most holy days of the year
    . It seemed, in the first day or two, that Israel was doomed. However, that war lasted, due to Israel's amazing military prowess, only 6 Days. Millennialists hailed Israel's victory as a positive sign that Jehovah was protecting her, and that, of course, we must be living in the last days! Let's take a closer look.

    Instead of being a proof that Israel remains as God's chosen people, the Yom Kippur attack in 1967, and the attack on Passover, this last Wednesday, proves
    beyond a shadow of a doubt that Israel is not in covenant relationship with Jehovah. We know this from scripture.


    Read Exodus 34:23: "Three times in the year all your men shall appear before
    the Lord, the Lord God of Israel [passover, pentecost, tabernacles]. For I will cast out the nations before you and enlarge your borders; neither will any man covet your land when you go up to appear before the Lord your God three times in the year." The promise here is simple and profound. As long as Israel was in covenant relationship with Jehovah, their enemies would not attack them during their holy feast days! On a recent Trinity Broadcast, I heard Grant Jeffrey saying that, "For 1500 years of Israel's history, there is no record of a single attack against her on any of her Holy Feast Days." Of course, Jeffrey made no mention of the 1967 Yom Kippur attack! That would have proven more than a little embarrassing, for his point was to show how God had protected Israel for so long, and his citation of the 1500 years of protection was in that context.

    It is tremendously important to realize that Jeffrey was correct. For 1500 years there were no attacks against Israel during her feast days [During the Mosaic Age]. However, the siege of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 took place, the city fell, during Pentecost. What are the implications of that attack in light of Exodus 34? The Seven Day War of 1967 took place on Yom Kippur, Israel's most Holy Day. What are the implications in light of Exodus 34? And now, the attack on Passover on 3-27-02. What are the ramifications of this attack, on Israel's Holy Day?

    If Israel is still God's chosen people, that Palestinian bomber should never have been allowed by Jehovah to attack during the Passover. If Israel is still God's chosen people the attack of 1967 should never have happened. Instead of Israel's victory at that time being a sign of her elect status, it was, and is, a sign of the direct opposite. It proved, and proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Covenantal promise of Exodus 34 is no longer applicable! But if the Covenantal promise of Exodus 34 is no longer applicable, then the other promises of that Covenant, i.e., the promises of national restoration (e.g. Deuteronomy 30), are also now invalid, abrogated by Jehovah Himself.

    Further, the attacks on Yom Kippur, and now Passover, also prove something else, a direct corollary to everything else. Either the Covenant promise of Exodus 34 is no longer valid, or, the people claiming to be Israel today are not the people of the Covenant of Exodus 34. If the Covenant of Exodus is still valid, but the people in Israel today were attacked in violation of Exodus 34, then what does it say about the identity of the people in Israel today? It says that they cannot be the people of the Covenant of Exodus 34!

    Every time, and any time, that the Palestinians attack Israel during any of
    her three feast days, Bible students everywhere should be trumpeting the
    Biblical fact, that this proves, emphatically, and unequivocally, that Israel is no longer the chosen people of God.
     
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  2. Phoenix

    Phoenix Senior Member

    520
    +12
    Christian
    This goes a bit over my head GW .. is there an easier way to explain this ? I see this is an article, what are your thoughts ?


    Regards and Welcome to this board !!
     
  3. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Hi Phoenix, and blessings.

    There are many today who teach an odd false teaching that today's racial/political jews are still in covenant relationship with Jehovah. This, of course, is not what Jesus and the apostles taught (1 Jn 2:23; Jn 15:23-24; Jn 5:22-23; Acts 3:22-24) nor what the historic Church has ever taught.

    Well, this article simply looks at the Mosaic Covenant to see if Jehovah is still honoring his covenant with todays racial/poltical jews as his People. We see clearly He is not, for in Exodus 34 Jehovah made a covenant promise that he would never allow an attack on the nation during the high festivals]. During the entire Mosaic Period Jehovah honored this promise. Well, this past week was an attack on Israel on Passover. Also, the war of 1967 took place on Yom Kippur. This is proof that today's political Israel is NOT in covenant relations with Jehovah. Perhaps most importantly, the Old Covenant with Israel reached its end at AD70 when Jerusalem and Temple Judaism were destroyed and the jewish Church established as the Covenant People (with the addition of the gentiles).

    Today's racial jews are not in our New Covenant (if they don't have Jesus), and they clearly are not in ANY other covenant that Jehovah is still honoring to them. The Holy Day attack on today's political Israel is just one of countless proofs that the only people in covenant relations with Jehovah now are those who have the Messiah, Jesus (1 Jn 2:23; Jn 15:23-24; Jn 5:22-23; Acts 3:22-24).
     
  4. Dave Ulchers

    Dave Ulchers Active Member

    767
    +0
    OK, I can't decide which reply to make here. Either:

    a) "Please don't let this be the GW, please don't let this be the GW, please don't let this be the GW...."

    or

    b) "WHAT!!! There was some sort of BOMBING in ISRAEL?? Omigawd! You've got to be making this up. :sleep: "
     
  5. Yauming

    Yauming Member

    368
    +1




    Welcome to the PETCA forum dude.

    I think everyone should pray really hard for peace in the middle east now.Its just getting from bad to worse. I don't know what else can we can except pray now. The PLO are totally incapable of stopping and unwilling to shutting down the terrorist groups, like Hamas and Holy Jihad. Meanwhile, they seem to except the Israelis to lie down and play dead literally.

    A few quibbles with the post.

    The 1967 "6 day war" was on June 5th not on Yom Kippur or the passover. The "6 day" war was started by Israel; but after the Eqyptians had massed their forces at Israel's border and threatened to wipe the Jews out. The Israeli IDF launched a pre-emptive surprise attack that wiped out the Eqyptian air forces. etc...

    The 1973 Yom Kippur war was started by the Eqyptian/Syrians; that time the Israeli government held back initially- it didn't want to start total mobilization less they be accused for warmongering.

    I hardly think you can use the incidents you mentioned to denonce the Jews as not longer the chosen people of God. Remember they were wiped out as a nation twice in ancient history. Did God's promises run out for them after they were destroyed? No. Does His promises for them still remain valid??? Yes. How then can you explain how the Jews managed to survive countless numbers of massacres, pogoms, etc..? Surely God still considers them his chosen people. He is allowing them to be treated harshly but God is still their Redeemer. Read Isaiah 66.

    I am no bible scholar but read Romans Chapters 1 and 11. Paul makes it clear that the Jews are still considered the chosen people and God will return to save them.

    Moreover I think that no good Christian will ever be "trumpeting" your brand of teaching whenever some religious mad man commits murder on the Passover. I don't think that God would approve of such behavior. IMHO its totally wrong and uncalled for.

    We should be praying for peace and trying in whatever way we can to help bring the love of Christ into that land. Pray for that Jews will come to know Christ as Messiah.

    Isaiah 66:7-20

    5 Hear the word of the Lord ,
    you who tremble at his word:
    "Your brothers who hate you,
    and exclude you because of my name, have said,
    'Let the Lord be glorified,
    that we may see your joy!'
    Yet they will be put to shame.
    6 Hear that uproar from the city,
    hear that noise from the temple!
    It is the sound of the Lord
    repaying his enemies all they deserve.

    7 "Before she goes into labor,
    she gives birth;
    before the pains come upon her,
    she delivers a son.
    8 Who has ever heard of such a thing?
    Who has ever seen such things?
    Can a country be born in a day
    or a nation be brought forth in a moment?
    Yet no sooner is Zion in labor
    than she gives birth to her children.
    9 Do I bring to the moment of birth
    and not give delivery?" says the Lord .
    "Do I close up the womb
    when I bring to delivery?" says your God.
    10 "Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad for her,
    all you who love her;
    rejoice greatly with her,
    all you who mourn over her.
    11 For you will nurse and be satisfied
    at her comforting breasts;
    you will drink deeply
    and delight in her overflowing abundance."

    12 For this is what the Lord says:

    "I will extend peace to her like a river,
    and the wealth of nations like a flooding stream;
    you will nurse and be carried on her arm
    and dandled on her knees.
    13 As a mother comforts her child,
    so will I comfort you;
    and you will be comforted over Jerusalem."

    14 When you see this, your heart will rejoice
    and you will flourish like grass;
    the hand of the Lord will be made known to his servants,
    but his fury will be shown to his foes.
    15 See, the Lord is coming with fire,
    and his chariots are like a whirlwind;
    he will bring down his anger with fury,
    and his rebuke with flames of fire.
    16 For with fire and with his sword
    the Lord will execute judgment upon all men,
    and many will be those slain by the Lord .

    17 "Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following the one in the midst of [1] those who eat the flesh of pigs and rats and other abominable things-they will meet their end together," declares the Lord .
    18 "And I, because of their actions and their imaginations, am about to come [2] and gather all nations and tongues, and they will come and see my glory.
    19 "I will set a sign among them, and I will send some of those who survive to the nations-to Tarshish, to the Libyans [3] and Lydians (famous as archers), to Tubal and Greece, and to the distant islands that have not heard of my fame or seen my glory. They will proclaim my glory among the nations. 20 And they will bring all your brothers, from all the nations, to my holy mountain in Jerusalem as an offering to the Lord -on horses, in chariots and wagons, and on mules and camels," says the Lord . "They will bring them, as the Israelites bring their grain offerings, to the temple of the Lord in ceremonially clean vessels. 21 And I will select some of them also to be priests and Levites," says the Lord .
     
  6. Phoenix

    Phoenix Senior Member

    520
    +12
    Christian
    Thanks for the 'splanation GW.
     
  7. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Dear Yauming:

    The post above used the covenant promises of Exodus 34 to prove that God is not honoring His promises to today's political Israel. You have not refuted that claim.

    The Church, obviously, is the People of God and the heirs of the Covenant forevermore. However, there are many today who wish to include non-Christians into the covenant without having to have Jesus. They imagine that perhaps Jehovah still honors ONE covenant to the members of today's cult of Talmudic Judaism while honoring the New Covenant to the jewish Church (with gentiles grafted in). One would hardly think such an idea could ever have any followers, but the dispensationalist brothers have tried to make it so (against the bible's clear teaching).

    Please refute the dilemma posed above concerning a God who is not honoring the promise of Exodus 34:23 to today's members of modern Judaism. During the age of Moses, Jehovah indeed honored His promise, for the covenant was in effect. Holy Day attacks on Israel since AD70 show that God is not any longer in covenant relations with political Israel, but rather with the Church of Jesus Christ (as was taught by the apostles -- 1 Jn 2:23; Jn 15:23-24; Jn 5:22-23; Acts 3:22-24).

    The Middle East is tragic, and perhaps even a little dangerous to the civilized world. But we must recognize that the peoples of the world whose God is not Jehovah are not specially blessed by Him and his care. We must also praise Him for the true sons and daughters of Jehovah -- those that love Jesus Christ and the True Israel, the jewish Church (Gal 6:15-16).
     
  8. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Phoenix, you're welcome. Hope it was clear and concise enough.


    Heya Dave. Riches in Christ Jesus.

    a) this is the GW (I personally don't know another)

    b) the bombing is not unusual. But a Holy Day bombing of Israel on Holy Day is 100 percent proof that God is not honoring the covenant promises with that people and nation.

    Exodus 34:23 was a promise of Jehovah which He faithfully kept with his Nation until AD 70. The fact that political Israel now gets attacked on its high holy days is proof that they are no longer in any covenant standing with Jehovah. The Church, however, is in full standing with Jehovah.
     
  9. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    I disagree that God is through with Israel. Ezekiel, Daniel, Revelation are clear on this. The Church has not replaced Israel. Paul in Romans stated this. Blindness in part has happened to the Jews until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. God made an everlasting covenant with Israel which means without end.
     
  10. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Hi Mandy. If God was in covenant relations with Israel then Exodus 34:23 would be in effect and they would not be able to be attacked on their high holy days. Since they have been attacked many times on high holy days since AD 70 then we know God is not in covenant with them.

    The Jewish Church (Jesus, Mary, Joseph, John the Baptist, Elizabeth, Peter, Thomas, Paul, etc) was true Israel, not the unbelieving kin (Gal 6:15-16; 1 Peter 2:9). In fact, the unbelieving portion of Abraham's kin never were Jehovah's beloved -- only the portion of Abraham's sons who had FAITH are The Chosen.

    This week's Passover attack on Israel is 100 percent proof that God is not honoring the Mosaic covenant with Israel.

    Even so, we pray for the whole Middle East and must send our missionaries that they might know Jehovah by knowing Jesus (1 Jn 2:23; John 5:22-23; John 15:23; Acts 3:22-24). Amen.
     
  11. mcfly1960

    mcfly1960 Member

    159
    +2
    Protestant
    I believe that GW is essentially correct regarding the exclusive covenant with the Church, but we must be reminded of the mystery Paul revealed to us, lest we be "wise in our own conceits":

    "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." Romans 11:25

    After the fullness of the Gentiles, the elect remnant of natural Israel will get their spiritual sight back "in full", will be regrafted in, and complete the Church.
     
  12. Dave Ulchers

    Dave Ulchers Active Member

    767
    +0
    I take it back G.W. -- your further postings made a lot more sense! I kinda hope you are the real G.W. now. ;)

    I don't know mcfly -- I'm very suspicious of people who quote a mystery from the Bible then go on to explain it. If it were explainable, it wouldn't be a mystery. :D
     
  13. mcfly1960

    mcfly1960 Member

    159
    +2
    Protestant
    I did not reveal the mystery. Paul did. So that we would not be conceited.
     
  14. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    I don't know how after reading (especially) Revelation one could conclude that God is through with Israel.
     
  15. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Hi McFly. Good post, and I'm glad we have a lot in common in our understanding of the covenants.

    One thing I want to point out is that Paul was not talking about a blindness that would last for thousands of years (longer than Israel ever had a covenant), but, rather, for the time of Israel's probation leading up to the end of the Old Testament Age at AD 70.

    That hidden remnant that Paul talks about that would be saved was present in Paul's OWN generation: "Even so, then, AT THIS PRESENT TIME there is a remnant according to the election of grace" (Rom 11:5). In fact, Paul's proof that Jehovah had not forever shunned the semetic people group was his own conversion to Jesus Christ back in the first century after his own shocking blindness. (Rom 11:1). "I say then, has God cast away His people? God forbid. FOR I AM AN ISRAELITE..." So Paul points to his own recovery out of an initial blindness as proof that God hadn't forsaken the entire semetic people group. In fact, Paul expected that his ministry to the gentiles would be instrumental in helping recover the remnant that was initially blinded (Rom 11:14). That partial blinding was only for a very short time to push the gospel beyond the jewish people and Nation, out to the gentile peoples.

    The "fullness" of the gentiles was brought about by Paul's ministry to the gentiles (Rom 15:16; Gal 3:14; ), planting the full rights of the Abrahamic covenant and inheritance among them (Eph 3:3-7; Acts 26:17-18; Rev 5:9-10; ). That "fullness" was that they became co-heirs with the faithful jews who were the True Israel/Church (i.e., Mary, Joseph, John, James, Jesus, Peter, Elisabeth, etc). The "fullness" of Romans 11:25 is the same "fullness" of John 1:16, Eph 3:19, Col 1:19 and Rom. 11:12.

    So the passage in Romans 11 has its fulfillment back in the generation of the apostles, for that was the probationary period spoken of by Moses: "For Moses indeed said to the fathers, 'The Lord God will raise up a prophet to you from among your brothers, like me. You will listen to him in all things whatever he says to you. It will be, that every soul that will not listen to that prophet will be utterly destroyed from among the people.' Yes, and all the prophets from Samuel and those who followed after, as many as have spoken, they ALSO TOLD OF THESE DAYS. -- Acts 3:22-24

    So Peter also recognized that his own generation was the generation of fulfillment spoken of by Moses where Israelites MUST be converted to the Messiah's Covenant or "be cut off from among the people," the curse formerly associated with the uncircumcised (Gen 17:14).

    After AD 70, when the probationary period was ended and the gospel had gone through the entire Nation, ALL that are not in Christ Jesus are as the "uncircumcised" in the Old Covenant times -- i.e., cut off from among the People of God.

    The Jewish Church of Christ's generation was vindicated as the True Israel (Gal 6:15-16) -- not the kin who never converted from Moses to Jesus and were destroyed according to covenant by fire, plague, disasters, and war at 66-70 AD (Luke 21:20-22).
     
  16. charlesj

    charlesj Member

    78
    +0
    Don:

    Thanks for your insight on the Israel.
    Is this Don K. Preston? If it is, I've bought your book (THEN COMES THE END)about six months ago. I really enjoyed it. I sat down on one week-end and read the whole thing. I couldn't lay it down. :)

    I agree with you that the Lord is not honoring the Mosiac
    covenant with Israel.

    The Lord be with you.
    your servant in Messiah, Jesus,
    charlesj
     
  17. bananaman

    bananaman Member

    162
    +0
    While it is true that the jewish people are receiving chastisemant for their sins, it is not true that G-d has renounced them as the chosen people. The passage in exodus refers to when there was pilgrimage to the temple and sacrifices. The temple will be rebuilt. But in the time period we live in there is no temple.The covenant is an everlasting covenant.
     
  18. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Hi bananaman.

    God does not still have the semetic peoples under a "special curse" among all the peoples of the earth. That dispensationalist teaching is borderline anti-semetic, and just plain unbiblical. Abraham's children were under covenant with Moses for 1500 years, and their punishments were always timed out precisely. Jeremiah had Israel in punishment for a grand total of 70 years.

    Since the first century, Israel has been the faithful remnant of Messianic believers that followed Jesus, and has expanded to also include the gentiles into the covenant through faith in Jesus.

    So, today's semetic peoples are not a "specially cursed" people among all the peoples of the planet. They are merely now the same as the rest of the peoples on the planet, being without any covenant with Jehovah. The jewish Church alone entered into the New Covenant with Jehovah and the rest are outside the covenants.
     
  19. Yauming

    Yauming Member

    368
    +1
    The Christian is the chosen of God. But that did not stop the Roman Empire from crucifying, persecuting, and murdering thousands if not millions of those ancient Christians. Were they the "chosen" if they died violently by the hand of our enemies? Don't make the mistake of Job's accusers.

    I am, of course, not of the opinion that Jews who reject Christ as Messiah are "saved". Paul explains that quite clearly in his many letters that Jews or Gentiles have to accept the Lordship and sacrifice of Jesus etc....

    But I do object to your contention that God has rejected the Jews as his chosen people. He still has a special place for them. As I said, the Jewish nation was wiped out twice in ancient history. Yet, God's rejection of his people was only temporal. He brought them back. And one day we will see, maybe not in our life times, the nation of Israel call upon Jesus as Lord.

    At the moment, however, they do not: we see flesh without the breath of God. That is the mystery in Ezekiel 37.

    So until we see that day, I'd rather spend the time praying for peace in Jerusalem and for the sons of Abraham to call upon Jesus as Lord.

    Won't you?

    :)

    YM


     
  20. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Hi Yauming.

    What covenant do you propose today's cultural Jews still have with Jehovah? I assure you that Ezekiel 37 isn't valid today, for the lead post of this thread has proven that Exodus 34:23 is not being honored by Jehovah. If Exodus 34:23 is not being honored by Jehovah then neither will any other promise of the Law of Moses be honored. As we know, the Old Covenant was fulfilled and the New Covenant is the only covenant one can have with God from now and forever.

    Today's jews are under Talmudic judaism, an entirely man-made cult. They are not in any covenant relationship with Jehovah. Those who reject Christ are cut off from among the people of God, exactly as Moses and Peter taught (Acts 3:22-24).

    We should be praying for peace all over the world, not just in Jerusalem. Furthermore, we should not merely pray for peace, we should equip missionaries to target the whole Middle East and endure whatever martyrdom will be necessary to convert the jews and arabs out of darkness and satan's lies and bring them into the Church.
     
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