The Sign, Seal & the Mark

reddogs

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The Sabbath is the "sign" of God's people, however a individual can be a Sabbath keeping Christian and still have the Mark of the Beast. How so, well by following it in its false practices of worship, which is really worship of the Beast. Lets look at the text closely...

Revelation 14:9-12
King James Version (KJV)
9And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Worshiping on Sunday is a direct way of worshiping the Beast, but there are other ways which we must be careful to avoid, one example which many Protestants and even a few Adventist do worship is 'Easter'. Think about it.
 

reddogs

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Lets look closer at one verse here, Rev.14:12 'Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.'

We see the mark of the beast has to do with God's law, keeping His commandments. While the Sabbath is central in it, as a "sign" of his people who keep his law, the text in verse 10 says 'If any man worship the beast and his image' it leads to the mark of the beast.

This means an individual can be a Seventh-day Sabbath keeper and still be worshiping the beast in what it lays out as its 'holy days' and practices which can only be seen as worship to false pagan gods and idols.

Even the Catholic church admits it 'superimposed' holy days on pagan feasts, but justify it by saying the the pagan connections to them ceased and the holy day became 'thoroughly Christian'. How do you make pagan worship 'thoroughly Christian'?
 
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reddogs

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So we have to keep ourselves clear of anything that worships the Beast and its image.

Scripture shows us what the law is and how we need to follow it.

Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Deep into our hearts it should go and be understood, not a surface understanding..

Isaiah 8:16 "Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples."

A seal was something that held fast and in this context was binded up.

Deuteronomy 6:2,8 That you might fear the LORD your God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command you....And you shall bind them for a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

and we see it will be a sign...

Exodus 13:9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the Lord's law may be in thy mouth.

Exodus 31:13,17 Truly My Sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am the Lord that does sanctify you....It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel for ever.

and it is forever. But look at what do you do on the Sabbath, can we say 'worship' God.

The Mark of the Beast is about keeping of God's law especially worship, same as it always has been, and the Sabbath is at the center.
 
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TheOmegaMan19

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Lets look closer at one verse here, Rev.14:12 'Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.'

We see the mark of the beast has to do with God's law, keeping His commandments. While the Sabbath is central in it, as a "sign" of his people who keep his law, the text in verse 10 says 'If any man worship the beast and his image' it leads to the mark of the beast.

This means an individual can be a Seventh-day Sabbath keeper and still be worshiping the beast in what it lays out as its 'holy days' and practices which can only be seen as worship to false pagan gods and idols.

Even the Catholic church admits it 'superimposed' holy days on pagan feasts, but justify it by saying the the pagan connections to them ceased and the holy day became 'thoroughly Christian'. How do you make pagan worship 'thoroughly Christian'?

Well, this video sums up what I've been understanding as to what actually forms the beast's image. When the pastors of organized churches have accepted the perks of being exempt from taxes (501c3), they have effectively become government entities. Just like mother Rome, they become religo-political churches.

I won't go any further, though. I'll let you watch the video. Very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8ha0sdhlZI
 
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Castaway57

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The Sabbath is the "sign" of God's people, however a individual can be a Sabbath keeping Christian and still have the Mark of the Beast. How so, well by following it in its false practices of worship, which is really worship of the Beast. Lets look at the text closely...

Revelation 14:9-12
King James Version (KJV)
9And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Worshiping on Sunday is a direct way of worshiping the Beast, but there are other ways which we must be careful to avoid, one example which many Protestants and even a few Adventist do worship is 'Easter'. Think about it.
I think you need to go back to the drawing board on this one. Certainly; this is not how the Adventist official beliefs would say it. Easter? The mark of the beast? Really? Without even getting into what the "mark" is, the text tells us that it cannot even occurr until a certain point in history, and that point has not yet been reached.
 
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Castaway57

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Well, this video sums up what I've been understanding as to what actually forms the beast's image. When the pastors of organized churches have accepted the perks of being exempt from taxes (501c3), they have effectively become government entities. Just like mother Rome, they become religo-political churches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8ha0sdhlZI
Bunch of hub bub that video be. And your statement does not represent official Adventist teachings. Where do you find this business about tax exemption status in the Bible?
 
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Castaway57

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Even the Catholic church admits it 'superimposed' holy days on pagan feasts, but justify it by saying the the pagan connections to them ceased and the holy day became 'thoroughly Christian'. How do you make pagan worship 'thoroughly Christian'?
I have never seen such a group that so loves to critisize the Catholic Church with snippets like this that really tell no one nothing about Jesus, nor do they even represent official Adventist teachings. I thought thats what this forum was for? Most people today who celebrate Easter, or some other holiday which you may not approve of do not do it from a "pagan" standpoint, at all, and certainly, we have no right to accuse them of accepting the mark of the beast - that can't even happen with anyone now - it is slated for a certain point in history - which we have not yet reached.
 
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What if the image of the beast was first to be made within our ranks?

"It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the papacy." Signs of the Times, Feb.19,1894.

Did not the Lord also prophesy that sunday observance will be urged upon us by the ministers of this church in open air meetings?

In the book Testimonies to Ministers, pp.362-363 we are warned about the church following in the track of the papal church.

Under this subtitle, IN THE TRACK OF ROMANISM, she writes:

"Those who are enjoined to represent the attributes of the Lord's character, step from the Bible platform, and in their own human judgment devise rules and resolutions to force the will of others. The devisings for forcing men to follow the prescriptions of other men are instituting an order of things that overrides sympathy and tender compassion, that blinds the eyes to mercy, justice, and the love of God. Moral influence and personal responsibility are trodden unferfoot." T.M.363.

Is not the work of devising rules and resolutions to force the will of others the work of making an image to the beast? Yes or no?

On page 360 she says, "Men have taken unfair advantage of those whom they supposed to be under their jurisdiction. They were determined to bring the individuals to their terms. They would rule or ruin. There will be no material change until a decided movement is made to bring a different order of things." T.M.360.

Was this not the work of the papacy in the Dark Ages to rule or to ruin?

But these are the methods of Satan, are they not?

"Organizations, institutions, unless kept by the power of God, will work under Satan's dictation to bring men under the control of men; and fraud and guile will bear the semblance of zeal for truth and for the advancement of the kingdom of God. Whatever in our practice is not as open as day, belongs to the methods of the prince of evil. His methods are practiced among Seveth-day Adventists, who claim to have advanced truth." T.M.366.

This is why, as I have shown before, the warning of the third angel applies to the professed people of God today. How can we proclaim this message to the world when we have become so much like the worldly churches that no difference can be seen?

sky
 
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TheOmegaMan19

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Bunch of hub bub that video be. And your statement does not represent official Adventist teachings. Where do you find this business about tax exemption status in the Bible?

That's like asking where did you read "Sunday Laws" in the Bible. You actually learn both through comprehensive study of the Word. The beast is Rome, and it's identity is that it is a religo-political conglomerate (see Rev 17 for example). The daughters have taken on the same form.

Just ask Mr. Graham (in the news today) what happens when you oppose the government leader. A nice little tax audit. Indeed, the organized churches have sold out for the dollar and now they can't go back. They are controlled by the Vatican-controlled IRS - it's mother. (link: Roman Catholic IRS )

"Amazing how EVERY prophecy of Antichrist points right back to Rome isn’t it!? With all these new laws in place, with all these so called “Protestant” leaders bowing to Rome, with the image of the beast secured in both the government as well as all “501C3” churches, one can easily see how easy this prophecy is to be fulfilled.

"And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."-Revelation 13:15

SPEAK = LEGISLATE LAW
CAUSE = ENFORCE LAW

The 501C3 was obviously a trap. Preachers with understanding of the end time prophecies have been stating that very fact for just over 5 decades now. Problem is, the monetary greed of the other preachers far outweighed the concrete evidence they peered into. Now this small insignificant “tax free” foothold has become a snare they could never imagine. It is so overwhelming and so massive now that even if they wanted to they simply cannot break free of it without an absolute financial disaster. Especially if they have become a large church and have been around for a few years. If they refuse to comply with the Federal Government on this one, the families of the church board will be financially ruined guaranteed.

Yes, once again, Satan has been able to dangle the “almighty dollar” before the eyes of the weak so as to claim his prey! And all prophecy had to say in warning was…

Revelation 13:14, "And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."

(link: Image of the Beast ALIVE in the USA )
 
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reddogs

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What if the image of the beast was first to be made within our ranks?

"It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the papacy." Signs of the Times, Feb.19,1894.

Did not the Lord also prophesy that sunday observance will be urged upon us by the ministers of this church in open air meetings?

In the book Testimonies to Ministers, pp.362-363 we are warned about the church following in the track of the papal church.

Under this subtitle, IN THE TRACK OF ROMANISM, she writes:

"Those who are enjoined to represent the attributes of the Lord's character, step from the Bible platform, and in their own human judgment devise rules and resolutions to force the will of others. The devisings for forcing men to follow the prescriptions of other men are instituting an order of things that overrides sympathy and tender compassion, that blinds the eyes to mercy, justice, and the love of God. Moral influence and personal responsibility are trodden unferfoot." T.M.363.

Is not the work of devising rules and resolutions to force the will of others the work of making an image to the beast? Yes or no?

On page 360 she says, "Men have taken unfair advantage of those whom they supposed to be under their jurisdiction. They were determined to bring the individuals to their terms. They would rule or ruin. There will be no material change until a decided movement is made to bring a different order of things." T.M.360.

Was this not the work of the papacy in the Dark Ages to rule or to ruin?

But these are the methods of Satan, are they not?

"Organizations, institutions, unless kept by the power of God, will work under Satan's dictation to bring men under the control of men; and fraud and guile will bear the semblance of zeal for truth and for the advancement of the kingdom of God. Whatever in our practice is not as open as day, belongs to the methods of the prince of evil. His methods are practiced among Seveth-day Adventists, who claim to have advanced truth." T.M.366.

This is why, as I have shown before, the warning of the third angel applies to the professed people of God today. How can we proclaim this message to the world when we have become so much like the worldly churches that no difference can be seen?

sky
How, do you mean as if the Popes brother came and took over the reigns of the Adventist church?
 
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Castaway57

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That's like asking where did you read "Sunday Laws" in the Bible. You actually learn both through comprehensive study of the Word. The beast is Rome, and it's identity is that it is a religo-political conglomerate (see Rev 17 for example). The daughters have taken on the same form.

Just ask Mr. Graham (in the news today) what happens when you oppose the government leader. A nice little tax audit. Indeed, the organized churches have sold out for the dollar and now they can't go back. They are controlled by the Vatican-controlled IRS - it's mother. (link: Roman Catholic IRS )

The so-called "beast system" may indeed be alive in the USA and elsewhere, but lots of us get tax audits for lots of reasons. You are off on the wrong track here, already, and because you are either unwilling, or unable to use your Bible when it comes to this kind of area in Bible prophecy, you are giving the trumpet a very uncertain sound. This tax-exemption status hub bub is not in the Bible; neither directly or indirectly. It is not needed in order to show Bible prophecy principles. people have to learn to stop leaning on the conspiracy theory mantra that is so plentiful out there these days.
 
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Castaway57

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The Sabbath is the "sign" of God's people, however a individual can be a Sabbath keeping Christian and still have the Mark of the Beast. How so, well by following it in its false practices of worship, which is really worship of the Beast. Lets look at the text closely...

Revelation 14:9-12
King James Version (KJV)
9And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Worshiping on Sunday is a direct way of worshiping the Beast, but there are other ways which we must be careful to avoid, one example which many Protestants and even a few Adventist do worship is 'Easter'. Think about it.
Well; by this comment, it is easy to see that you did not look closely at the text of Rev 14, as you have just urged us all to do. Plus, this text needs to be considered, in better context,that the Bible writer's original intention is focused on. God clearly states in the Bible how that He has "my people" in all of the churches of Babylon." (Rev 18:4). Therefore, until we reach a certain point in Bible prophecy, it is not usually correct to say someone has "the mark of the beast;" just because they "celebrate Easter" now. Some people who are "Easter-keepers" are just as close to God as any "Sabbath-keeper" may be because there are just as many "Sabbath-keepers" who now violate the seventh commandment, as do our Sunday-keeping" brethren.

Why don't you criticise those who break any of the other commandments as having "the mark of the beast?"
 
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So we have to keep ourselves clear of anything that worships the Beast and its image.
Reddogs
______________

What if the image of the beast was first to be made within our ranks?

"It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the papacy." Signs of the Times, Feb.19,1894.

Did not the Lord also prophesy that sunday observance will be urged upon us by the ministers of this church in open air meetings?

In the book Testimonies to Ministers, pp.362-363 we are warned about the church following in the track of the papal church.

Under this subtitle, IN THE TRACK OF ROMANISM, she writes:

"Those who are enjoined to represent the attributes of the Lord's character, step from the Bible platform, and in their own human judgment devise rules and resolutions to force the will of others. The devisings for forcing men to follow the prescriptions of other men are instituting an order of things that overrides sympathy and tender compassion, that blinds the eyes to mercy, justice, and the love of God. Moral influence and personal responsibility are trodden unferfoot." T.M.363.

Is not the work of devising rules and resolutions to force the will of others the work of making an image to the beast? Yes or no?

On page 360 she says, "Men have taken unfair advantage of those whom they supposed to be under their jurisdiction. They were determined to bring the individuals to their terms. They would rule or ruin. There will be no material change until a decided movement is made to bring a different order of things." T.M.360.

Was this not the work of the papacy in the Dark Ages to rule or to ruin?

But these are the methods of Satan, are they not?

"Organizations, institutions, unless kept by the power of God, will work under Satan's dictation to bring men under the control of men; and fraud and guile will bear the semblance of zeal for truth and for the advancement of the kingdom of God. Whatever in our practice is not as open as day, belongs to the methods of the prince of evil. His methods are practiced among Seventh-day Adventists, who claim to have advanced truth." T.M.366.

This is why, as I have shown before, the warning of the third angel applies to the professed people of God today. How can we proclaim this message to the world when we have become so much like the worldly churches that no difference can be seen?

sky
_______________


How, do you mean as if the Popes brother came and took over the reigns of the Adventist church?

Reddogs
_______________

As soon as we have a man as the visible head of the church we are following in the track of Rome. That is why at the 1897 General Conference the Lord told our people that it was not wise to have one man as president of the General Conference. At the 1901 General Conference no president was elected. Instead a chairman was chosen. In 1902 A.G. Daniels assumed the presidency and got away with that and at the 1903 General Conference he was elected president. The change for which God had asked and which would have brought in a different order of things never took place and we have been following in the track of Rome ever since.

The mark of Cain and the beast and its image have one thing in common: "The spirit of domination." Testimonies to Ministers, 362. "Rule, rule has been their course of action." Idem,360. "They were determined to bring the individuals to their terms; they would rule or ruin." Idem,360.

"The high-handed power that has been developed as though position has made men gods makes me afraid and ought to cause fear." T.M.361. "Humanity is hailed as God." Idem, 365.

"In order to reign and to become a power, they employ Satan's methods to justify their own principles. They exalt themselves as men of superior judgment, and they have stood as representatives of God.They are false gods." Idem, 364. "Whatever in our practice is not as open as day belongs to the methods of the prince of evil. His methods are practiced even among Seventh-day Adventists, who claim to have adanced truth." Idem,366.

This spirit of domination within our own ranks is the spirit of the beast and its image. It is the mark of Cain and it is a curse wherever and by whomsoever it is exercised. Is that not a sufficient reason to delay the latter rain and by the same token the finishing of the work and the second coming of Christ? We have been wandering in the wilderness since 1844!

sky
 
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Castaway57

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Did not the Lord also prophesy that sunday observance will be urged upon us by the ministers of this church in open air meetings?[/IMG]lol, you never fail to flock to a subject like this - just like a fly to honey. If you would state things in their context, it would be seen that this statement is such a small part of the picture, that one who keeps repeating it in isolation from the Bible, the spirit of prophecy, and from the the official beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists cannot help but knowingly spread lies about our denomination.

Sunday observance will actually be urged upon everyone in the entire world, and this would have to include our church. The "wolf in sheeps clothing" will be busy doing as you described; however, you have provided less than NO EVIDENCE to show that when this happens; it means that our whole church is "following in the tracks of Romanism." Nothing could be further from the truth. You obviously do not have a clue what "Romanism" is if you talk like this.

In these first disciples was presented marked diversity. They were to be the world's teachers, and they represented widely varied types of character. In order successfully to carry forward the work to which they had been called, these men, differing in natural characteristics and in habits of life, needed to come into unity of feeling, thought, and action. This unity it was Christ's object to secure. {AA 20.2}

God is leading a people out from the world upon the exalted platform of eternal truth, the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. He will discipline and fit up His people. They will not be at variance, one believing one thing, and another having faith and views entirely opposite; each moving independently of the body. Through the diversity of the gifts and governments that He has placed in the church, they will all come to the unity of the faith. If one man takes his views of Bible truth without regard to the opinion of his brethren, and justifies his course, alleging that he has a right to his own peculiar views, and then presses them upon others, how can he be fulfilling the prayer of Christ? And if another and still another arises, each asserting his right to believe and talk what he pleases, without reference to the faith of the body, where will be that harmony which existed between Christ and His Father, and which Christ prayed might exist among His brethren? {CET 201.2}

You are defying the prayer of Christ, and sowing disunity.

As soon as we have a man as the visible head of the church we are following in the track of Rome. That is why at the 1897 General Conference the Lord told our people that it was not wise to have one man as president of the General Conference. At the 1901 General Conference no president was elected. Instead a chairman was chosen. In 1902 A.G. Daniels assumed the presidency and got away with that and at the 1903 General Conference he was elected president. The change for which God had asked and which would have brought in a different order of things never took place and we have been following in the track of Rome ever since.

You sure like this quote, dont you? But again; your only purpose here is to defy the Adventist Church, and make her look like she has no clue what she is doing. It is painfully clear that you are here only to mock our church with this quote, and that you are not here for BIBLE STUDY or discussion of any kind. This is one of our fundamental beliefs that lone-wolfs like yourself just love to preach against, and it is one of the strongest evidences here that you hate the Biblical doctrine of "unity in diversity."

14. Unity in the Body of Christ

The church is one body with many members, called from every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. In Christ we are a new creation; distinctions of race, culture, learning, and nationality, and differences between high and low, rich and poor, male and female, must not be divisive among us. We are all equal in Christ, who by one Spirit has bonded us into one fellowship with Him and with one another; we are to serve and be served without partiality or reservation. Through the revelation of Jesus Christ in the Scriptures we share the same faith and hope, and reach out in one witness to all. This unity has its source in the oneness of the triune God, who has adopted us as His children (Rom. 12:4, 5; 1 Cor. 12:12-14; Matt. 28:19, 20; Ps. 133:1; 2 Cor. 5:16, 17; Acts 17:26, 27; Gal. 3:27, 29; Col. 3:10-15; Eph. 4:14-16; 4:1-6; John 17:20-23.)
In these first disciples was presented marked diversity. They were to be the world's teachers, and they represented widely varied types of character. In order successfully to carry forward the work to which they had been called, these men, differing in natural characteristics and in habits of life, needed to come into unity of feeling, thought, and action. This unity it was Christ's object to secure. {AA 20.2}

God is leading a people out from the world upon the exalted platform of eternal truth, the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. He will discipline and fit up His people. They will not be at variance, one believing one thing, and another having faith and views entirely opposite; each moving independently of the body. Through the diversity of the gifts and governments that He has placed in the church, they will all come to the unity of the faith. If one man takes his views of Bible truth without regard to the opinion of his brethren, and justifies his course, alleging that he has a right to his own peculiar views, and then presses them upon others, how can he be fulfilling the prayer of Christ? And if another and still another arises, each asserting his right to believe and talk what he pleases, without reference to the faith of the body, where will be that harmony which existed between Christ and His Father, and which Christ prayed might exist among His brethren? {CET 201.2}

The mark of Cain and the beast and its image have one thing in common: The spirit of domination. "Rule, rule is their course of action." "They were determined to rule or ruin." T.M.360,363. "Humanity is hailed as God." T.M.363.

sky
This is plain ridiculous. I will address it later in a separate topic
 
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But again; your only purpose here is to defy the
Adventist Church, and make her look like she has
no clue what she is doing.

castaway
____________

I am not defying the Adventist church in any
way, shape, or form. The Lord spoke and that
is what I believe.

"Year after year the same acknowledgment was
made, but the principles which exalt a people
were not woven into the work. God gave them
clear light as to what they should do, and what
they should not do, but they departed from that
light
, and it is a marvel that we stand in as much
prosperity as we do to-day. It is because of the
great mercy of God, not because of our righteous-
ness, but that His name should not be dishonored
in the world
." E.G. White, 1901 General Conference
Bulletin, p.23.

Now this statement tells the whole story. Many years
ago the Lord showed the leaders of the General
Conference what to do and what not to do in regard
to organization but they departed from the heavenly
illumination. The result of having rejected that light was
that they have been following in the track of Romanism
ever since and there is no sign that today the leaders
will ever return to the 1901 reformatory steps, steps that
if they had been followed, would have brought in the
change that God had asked for at that conference and in
previous conferences as well, especially between 1888
and 1901.

"What we want now is a reorganization. We want to
begin at the foundation, and to build upon a different
principle
." E.G. White, 1901 G.C. Bulletin, p.25.

This reorganization never came and therefore the
church, ever since, has been building upon a false
foundation and a wrong principle, following in the
track of Romanism. (T.M.362-363)

As early as 1876, the Lord had warned the General
Conference leaders:

"Satan's chief work is at the headquarters of our faith.
He spares no pains to corrupt men in responsible
positions and to persuade them to be unfaithful to
their several trusts. Satan is doing his utmost to
deceive and allure them, that they may not only be
destroyed themselves, but may influence others to
do wrong and to injure the great work
. He seeks by
all means in his power to shake the confidence of
God's people in the voice of warning and reproof
through which God designs to purify the church
and prosper His cause
." 4 T 210-211.

Brothers and sisters, it is clear that today there are
those who speak for God and those who speak for
Satan. In that sense there are true and false
prophets within our ranks, as it was in the days of
Jeremiah.

sky
 
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It is clear that the purpose of the Testimonies
is not to condemn but to warn God's professed
people, to lead them into safe paths. There is no
difference between God warning Ancient Irsrael
through Jeremiah and God warning Modern Israel
today through the Testimonies.

That same year, Mrs. White wrote:

"If the heart of the work becomes corrupt, the
whole church, in its various branches and interests,
scattered abroad over the face of the earth, suffers
in consequence
." 4 T 210.

"The desolation of Jerusalem stands as a solemn
warning before the eyes of Modern Israel, that the
corrections given through His chosen instruments
cannot be disregarded with impunity
." 4 T 167.

sky
 
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"The desolation of Jerusalem stands as a solemn
warning before the eyes of Modern Israel, that the
corrections given through His chosen instruments
cannot be disregarded with impunity
." 4 T 167.

________________

Now please notice the next statements in the light
of the one just quoted above:

"Indignation often kindles in the heart of the sinner
against the agent whom God chooses to deliver His
reproofs. It has ever been thus, and the same spirit
exists today that persecuted and imprisoned Jeremiah
for obeying the word of the Lord
...

"Those who by unwise sympathy encourage men in
rebellion when their self-love is smarting beneath
merited reproof are not the friends of God, the great
Reprover
. God will send reproof and warning to His
people as long as they continue upon the earth
." 4 T
180.

"The same disobedience and failure which were seen
in the Jewish church have characterized in a greater
degree the people who have had this great light from
Heaven in the last messages of warning
." 5 T 456.
 
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Castaway57

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But again; your only purpose here is to defy the
Adventist Church, and make her look like she has
no clue what she is doing.

castaway
____________

I am not defying the Adventist church in any
way, shape, or form. The Lord spoke and that
is what I believe.

"Year after year the same acknowledgment was
made, but the principles which exalt a people
were not woven into the work. God gave them
clear light as to what they should do, and what
they should not do, but they departed from that
light
, and it is a marvel that we stand in as much
prosperity as we do to-day. It is because of the
great mercy of God, not because of our righteous-
ness, but that His name should not be dishonored
in the world
." E.G. White, 1901 General Conference
Bulletin, p.23.

Now this statement tells the whole story.
sky
This is the whole problem here in what you present is that these few quotes you isolate out of their context, and from the clear Bible definitions of what unity is in the church, do not tell the whole story at all. There will always be people in the church who do not do things right, and thats all she was referring to - not the whole church for the rest of time till Jesus comes.

That is the whole reasoning that Jesus used the teachings via the wheat and the tares. You have knowingly been polishing your anti-church machine on the web for years, and each year, your "light" just gets darker.

Unity in the Body of Christ

JESUS, HAVING FINISHED HIS WORK ON EARTH (Joh_17:4), continued to agonize over the condition of His disciples, even the evening before His death.

Jealousy led to arguments over who was the greatest and who would be assigned the highest positions in Christ's kingdom. Jesus' explanation that humility was the substance of His kingdom, and that true followers of His would be servants, willingly giving of themselves with no expectation of even thanks in return, seemed to have fallen on deaf ears (Luk_17:10). Even the example He set, stooping to wash their feet when none of them would do it because of the implications, seemed to have been in vain (see 1Co_10:16-17- The Lord's Supper).

Jesus is Love. It was His sympathy that kept the masses following Him. Not understanding this unselfish love, His disciples were filled with strong prejudices toward non-Jews, women, "sinners," and the poor, which blinded them to the allencompassing love of Christ even toward these detested ones. When the disciples found Him conversing with a Samaritan woman of ill-repute, they had not yet learned that the fields, ripe for harvest, include grain of all varieties, ready to be reaped.

But Christ could not be swayed by tradition, public opinion, or even family control. His irrepressible love reached down and restored broken humanity. Such love, which would set them apart from the careless public, would be the evidence of being true disciples. As He loved, they were to love. The world would forever be able to distinguish Christians-not because of their profession, but because of the revelation of Christ's love in them (cf. Joh_13:34-35).

So even in the garden of Gethsemane the main thing on Christ's mind was the unity of His church-those who had come "out of the world" (Joh_17:6). He pleaded with His Father for a unity in the 172church similar to that which the Godhead experienced. I pray "'that they all [His followers] may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me'" (Joh_17:21).

Such unity is the church's most powerful witnessing tool, for it gives evidence of Christ's unselfish love for humanity. Said He, "'I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me'" (Joh_17:23).

Bible Unity and the Church

What kind of unity did Christ have in mind for the visible church today? How is such love and unity possible? What is its foundation? What are its constituents? Does it demand uniformity or allow for diversity? How does unity function?

Unity of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the moving force behind church unity. Through Him believers are led to the church. By Him they are "all baptized into one body" (1Co_12:13). These baptized members are to have a unity Paul described as "the unity of the Spirit" (Eph_4:3).

The apostle listed the basic components of the unity of the Spirit: "There is one body and one Spirit," he said, "just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all" (Eph_4:4-6). The sevenfold repetition of the word one emphasizes the complete unity Paul envisioned.

Calling them from every nationality and race, the Holy Spirit baptizes people into one body-the body of Christ, the church. As they grow into Christ cultural differences are no longer divisive. The Holy Spirit breaks down barriers between high and low, rich and poor, male and female. Realizing that in God's sight they are all equal, they hold one another in esteem.

This unity functions on the corporate level also. It means that local churches everywhere are equal, even though some are recipients of money and missionaries from other countries. Such a spiritual union knows no hierarchy. Nationals and missionaries are equal before God.

The united church has one hope-the "blessed hope" of salvation that will be realized at the "glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ" (Tit_2:13). This hope is a source of peace and joy, and provides a powerful motive for united witness (Mat_24:14). It leads to transformation, for "everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure" (1Jo_3:3).

Through a common faith-personal faith in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ-that all become a part of the body. The one baptism that symbolizes Christ's death and resurrection (Rom_6:3-6) perfectly expresses this faith, witnessing of a union with Christ's body.

Finally, Scripture teaches that there is one Spirit, one Lord, and one God and Father. 173All aspects of church unity find their foundation in the oneness of the triune God. "There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all" (1Co_12:4-6).

The Extent of Unity. Believers experience a unity of mind and judgment. Notice the following exhortations: "Now may the God of patience and comfort grant you to be like-minded toward one another, according to Christ Jesus, that you may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom_15:5-6). "Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment" (1Co_1:10). "Be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you" (2Co_13:11).

God's church, then, ought to reveal a unity of feeling, thought, and action. Does this mean that members should have identical feelings, thoughts, and actions? Does Biblical unity imply uniformity?

Unity in Diversity. Biblical unity does not mean uniformity. The Biblical metaphor of the human body demonstrates that the church's unity exists in diversity.

The body has many organs, all contributing to the optimal performance of the body. Each fulfills a vital, though different, task; none are useless.

This same principle operates in the church. God distributes His gifts "to each one individually as He wills" (1Co_12:11), creating a healthy diversity that benefits the congregation. Not all members think alike, nor are they qualified to perform the same work. All, however, function under the direction of the same Spirit, building up the church to the best of their God-given abilities.

To accomplish its mission, the church needs the contributions of all the gifts. Together, they provide a total evangelistic thrust. The success of the church does not depend on each member's being the same and doing the same as every other member; rather, it depends on all the members performing their God-assigned tasks.

In nature the vine with its branches provides an illustration of unity in diversity. Jesus used the metaphor of the vine to depict the believer's union with Himself (Joh_15:1-6). The branches, the believers, are the extensions of the True Vine-Christ. Like every branch and leaf, each individual Christian differs from the others, yet a oneness exists, since all receive their nourishment from the same source, the Vine. The branches of the vine are individually separate and do not blend into each other: yet each branch will be in fellowship with the others if they are joined to the same parent stalk.174They all receive nourishment from the same source: assimilating the same life-giving properties.

So Christian unity depends on the grafting of the members into Christ. From Him comes the power that vitalizes Christian life. He is the source of the talent and power necessary to accomplish the church's task. Being linked to Him shapes the tastes, habits, and lifestyles of all Christians. Through Him, all members are linked to one another, and joined in a common mission. As the members abide in Him, selfishness is driven away and Christian unity is established, enabling them to accomplish His mission.

So while there are different temperaments in the church, all work under one Head. While there are many gifts, there is but one Spirit. Though the gifts differ, there is harmonious action. "It is the same God who works all in all" (1Co_12:6).

Unity of Faith. Diversity of gifts does not mean a diversity of beliefs, however. In the last days God's church will be composed of a people who share a platform of the everlasting gospel-their lives characterized by the observance of the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus (Rev_14:12). Together they proclaim to the world God's invitation to salvation.
(TBC)
 
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A short time before the 1901 General Conference
the Lord sent a most solemn warning to its leaders.
The first time I read this warning, I was totally
shocked and could not understand its import.
It is, to say the very least of it, a most startling
declaration which, I admit, is not for the fainthearted
among us:

"The central power of the earth is a demon. His
throne is in the midst of the world, where should
have been the throne of God
. Satan has been
patronized by the church
, for the church has been
conformed to the world
, and living in transgression
of the holy law of God
." This Day With God, 28.3.

I said to myself that this warning must have been
for the other churches. But then my attention was
drawn to other statements which made it crystal
clear that it was especially the SDA church which the
Lord had in mind:

"The professed followers of Christ are no longer a
separate and peculiar people
. The line of distinction
is indistinct. The people are subordinating themselves
to the world, to its practices, its customs, its
selfishness. The church has gone over to the world
in transgression of the law, when the world should
have come over to the church in obedience to the
law
. Daily the church is being converted to the world
."
Christ's Object Lessons, 316. (1901)

Two years later she wrote a similar warning :

"The message to the church of the Laodiceans applies
to the people of God today. It is a message to
professing Christians who have become so much like the
world that no difference can be seen
." Review & Herald,
Aug.20, 1903; 7 B.C.959.

It has been prophesied that this condition of things would
wax stronger and stronger and that it would continue to
develop and increase until Jesus would come back in the
clouds of Heaven!

But that does not mean that God will not have a people
through whom He will finish the work and cut it short
in righteousness:

"Let me tell you that the Lord will work in this last work
in a manner very much out of the common order of things
and in a way that will be contrary to any human planning.
God will use ways and means by which it will be seen that
He is taking the reins in His own hands. The workers will
be surprised by the simple means that He will use to bring
about and perfect His work of righteousness."
Testimonies to Ministers,300.

The common order or things for the last 170 years:

"The self-confident management of men has resulted in
putting God aside and accepting the devisings of men.
If you allow this to continue, your faith will soon become
extinct." Idem, 481. (1909)

Devisings of men: rules and resolutions, the devisings for
forcing men to follow the prescriptions of other men.

"Those who are enjoined to represent the attributes of
the Lord's character, step from the Bible platform, and
in their own judgment devise rules and resolutions to
force the will of others
. The devisings for forcing men
to follow the prescriptions of other men are instituting
an order of things that overrides sympathy, and tender
compassion, that blinds the eyes to mercy, justice,
and the love of God. Moral influence and personal
responsibility are trodden underfoot
." T.M.363.
(T.M.363.4)

This is the common order of things that exists today
in the churches and in the world.

sky
 
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Castaway57

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"The central power of the earth is a demon. His
throne is in the midst of the world, where should
have been the throne of God
. Satan has been
patronized by the church
, for the church has been
conformed to the world
, and living in transgression
of the holy law of God
." This Day With God, 28.3.

Years ago, when I first read these words, I said to
myself that they were speaking of the other
churches. But then my attention was drawn to
other statements which made it crystal clear
that it was especially the SDA church which the
Lord had in mind:

"The professed followers of Christ are no longer a
separate and peculiar people
. The line of distinction
is indistinct. The people are subordinating themselves
to the world, to its practices, its customs, its
selfishness. The church has gone over to the world
in transgression of the law, when the world should
have come over to the church in obedience to the
law
. Daily the church is being converted to the world
."
Christ's Object Lessons, 316. (1901)

sky
Well; you have convinced yourself, thats for sure. However, the facts of context, and original intent of the author remain largely obscured by your worldly doctrine here. You have taken this quote from COL and are making it say that if we dont accept your view of it, then no mediation between us and God is possible, or happening.

This quote from COL is infact not addressing any particular denomination at all, as we see a few paragraphs before it:

The man who came to the feast without a wedding garment represents the condition of many in our world today. They profess to be Christians, and lay claim to the blessings and privileges of the gospel; yet they feel no need of a transformation of character. They have never felt true repentance for sin. They do not realize their need of Christ or exercise faith in Him. They have not overcome their hereditary or cultivated tendencies to wrongdoing. Yet they think that they are good enough in themselves, and they rest upon their own merits instead of trusting in Christ. Hearers of the word, they come to the banquet, but they have not put on the robe of Christ's righteousness. {COL 315.2}
People who PROFESS to be Christians, or part of the church, are not always what they say they are is what Ellen White was telling us here. She clearly says "many in our world today;" NOT "many in our church today." And just because someone you want to point a finger at is not making the difference between them and the world that YOU think they should does not mean that God's hand is not upon them, and that He cannot or will not work with them.

Your military posts here condemn almost everyone so harshly, that mercy is impossible and you are therefore in defiance of many scriptures such as Micah 6:8, which the church heartily promotes. Moving o to the next paragraph in COL we read:

Many who call themselves Christians are mere human moralists. They have refused the gift which alone could enable them to honor Christ by representing Him to the world. The work of the Holy Spirit is to them a strange work. They are not doers of the word. The heavenly principles that distinguish those who are one with Christ from those who are one with the world have become almost indistinguishable. The professed followers of Christ are no longer a separate and peculiar people. The line of demarcation is indistinct. The people are subordinating themselves to the world, to its practices, its customs, its selfishness. The church has gone over to the world in transgression of the law, when the world should have come over to the church in obedience to the law. Daily the church is being converted to the world. {COL 315.3}
Again; this is not being aimed at any specific denomination by Ellen White at all. She refers specifically to "many who call themselves Christians;" still talking about "many in our world today;" and not "many in our church today."

A lot of people today, including yourself, "profess to be a Christian;" but when you think about it; there are thousands who actually are Christians, and they dont say a word about it; they just show it. Declaring yourself a Christian is much different than actually being one. One group needs to advertise that they are, the other one does not.

The line of demarcation is between those who profess, and those who are. Those who are always have a testimony for Jesus in their heart and life; while those who profess, always have a word of condemnation for someone in Church leadership.
 
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