The sign of the Son of man,

[Douggg]

The OP is a brief summary from the study and research of a team of astronomers and scientists over a three to five year time frame in the early to mid '90's. What Jesus referred to in Mt.24:30, that He will return with the appearing of the sign of the Son of Man. It is a sign that appears once every year, at, or around the summer equinox and the Jewish Rosh Hashanah Holy Sabbath. The OP describes the scene of the heavenly bodies involved at that time. All of which was previously addressed in the OP.

Not even. Vinsight4u is right on this one. It is a once in history event of the cosmos parting and Jesus being seen by the whole world before the throne of God. It will send terror into the hearts of them who have been persecuting the saints who are in Revelation 6:9-11. They are given 45 days to assemble themselves at Armageddon to fight Jesus, who will be returning to take out vengeance on them.

 

[Douggg]

Yes, that's what the Scriptures say. However, none of which have a thing to do with the Sign of the Son of Man, which is the "wonderous Sign," of Rev.12:1-2, that appears in the sky once a year, on or around the summer equinox in late September, at the time of the Jewish holy day of Rosh Hoshanah as I have previously posted. Directly from a 3/5 year study by astronomers and Scientists in the early to mid 90's.


Quasar92

Revelation 12:1-5 are historic verses to identify the woman in the rest of the chapter as Israel. What John saw is not something forthcoming, and is not a naturally occurring event. It is all metaphorical language.

 

[Quasar92]

That seems unlikely since the sun, moon and stars have all gone dark. What I always found remarkable is there is no question who is doing this to them. They specifically say, the Lamb, one would wonder how they know to call him that.

Nevertheless, the astronomers and scientists who retrogressed the heavens by computer, in a 3/5 year research and study, was accepted by many of the observatories in the U.S., including the one at Griffeth Park, in Los Angeles, CA.. for their Christmas display.

As I suggested previously, a full treatment of this subject is fully covered in Ernest L. Martin's book, "The Star That Astonished the World." Covering issues such as the exact date of Jesus birth and explaining what the star of Bethlehem was, together with descriptive pics. You might be able to get a copy of it from askelm.com.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

How many armies does it show the Rider has with Him that leave heaven? How many does He have at the end of Rev. 19/at the time of the battle?

When you have studied the prophetic Scriptures, you will find Jesus armies consist of His angels, His Church and the OT saints as recorded in Mt.24:31, Eph.4:7-10. 1 Pet.3:18-20 and Rev.19:14. He will have them all at the end of Rev.19, because our new immortal, imperishable bodies do not suffer injury or death as human bodies do.


Quasar92

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Revelation 12:1 is about the woman - Israel.
Mary -the mother of Jesus would not have crowns, nor
others obeying her.
the sun and the moon
at feet - means -underfoot - obeying

Israel gave birth to the Messiah. He came from the tribes of Israel -the tribe of Judah.

Now, ask yourself where did John mention the great tribulation?
What signs did Jesus tell His disciples would come after the tribulation?

6th seal - has the after the tribulation signs
Rev. 7 mentions the great tribulation

the 7th seal has yet to be opened

yes I agree it is Israel as the dream of Joseph the sun moon and 11 stars bowed down to Joseph. jacob understood this to mean Him Rachael and the 11 brothers in other words Israel.

 

[Mountainmike]

Fascinating!
I will take a read of it.

Jesus referred to in Mt.24:30:

There are two signs referred to in Rev.12, in which the one found in verses 1-2 through 5, the woman represents the virgin Mary, which is the subject of this post. The woman of verses 6-14 represent the nation of Israel.

The sign of the Son of Man referred to by Jesus in Mt.24:30 is explained from what was written in Rev,12:1-2, called the "Wonderous sign in heaven.'

The Great and Wonderous Sign -

You could say - it is the gospel in the sky. (Ps.89:5) This wonder takes place once every year at a very specific time, when Jesus was born. [The Star of Bethlehem was also involved in the astronomical phenomenon, but only a one time event, discussed a little later on].

The woman represents a virgin with the sun amidst her body, representing her pregnancy. The crescent moon at her feet represents the specific time frame this event takes place.

The only time of year this event can be witnessed, is in late September, at the time of the Autumnal Equinox. As seen in the middle east, at or around the Jewish Holy Convocation - feast and festival - of Rosh Hashanah. The Israeli New Year - which they call 'a year of new beginnings.' It is also the last fall feast and festival of their year which they call the 'feast of trumpets.' They also believe it marks the day God created Adam. Or at the time of the annual Autumnal Equinox of September 22/23 every year.

The astronomical, scientific study made, reveal the woman's body is in the Constellation of Virgo (The virgin). She represents the virgin Mary, of Israel, and has a crown of twelve stars on her head - representing the twelve tribes of Israel. The sun is amid her body, signifying her pregnancy.

Her head is about 10% in the previous Constellation Leo (The Lion - of Judah) and the moon is at her feet, about 10% into the Constellation Libra (The scales of righteousness and judgement). Depicting the precise window of time this event took place. With all the heavenly bodies in motion, this event can take place only between a time frame from 7:15 to 7:30 P.M., a 15 minute window.

So when Jesus talks about His return at His Second Advent in Mt.24:30, it will be at that specific time of year - and time frame!

For the full treatment on this outstanding story, can be found in a book written by Dr. Ernest L. Martin, PhD., "The Star That Astonished The World." Which also reveals what the Star of Bethlehem was, from this study, in the early to mid '90's by scientists and astronomers. Who retrogressed the heavenly bodies by computer, until their studies revealed the Star of Bethlehem to be a series of conjunctions between the king planet, Jupiter, the Queen planet Venus and the King star Regulus, as seen from the middle east. [The birth of Jesus was calculated by Dr. Martin to be September 11, 3 B.C.]


Quasar92

 

[Mountainmike]

Fascinating!
I will take a read of it.

Or may be not, considering the cheapest copy I can find is close $100

 

[Quasar92]

Revelation 12:1 is about the woman - Israel.
Mary -the mother of Jesus would not have crowns, nor
others obeying her.
the sun and the moon
at feet - means -underfoot - obeying

Israel gave birth to the Messiah. He came from the tribes of Israel -the tribe of Judah.

Now, ask yourself where did John mention the great tribulation?
What signs did Jesus tell His disciples would come after the tribulation?

6th seal - has the after the tribulation signs
Rev. 7 mentions the great tribulation

the 7th seal has yet to be opened

As previously posted, the sign of the Son of Man is that which appears in the sky once every year at the time of the summer equinox. As well as the Jewish Holy Day of Rosh Hashanah.

Which come from years of study and research of a team of astronomers and scientists in the early 90's. There is no speculation or guesswork to the study.

>>>There are two signs referred to in Rev.12, in which the one found in verses 1-2 through 5, the woman represents the virgin Mary, which is the subject of this post. The woman of verses 6-14 represent the nation of Israel.

The sign of the Son of Man referred to by Jesus in Mt.24:30 is explained from what was written in Rev,12:1-2, called the "Wonderous sign in heaven.<<<


Quasar92'

 

[CuriousWes]

That seems unlikely since the sun, moon and stars have all gone dark. What I always found remarkable is there is no question who is doing this to them. They specifically say, the Lamb, one would wonder how they know to call him that.

Good point. I think Revelation 6:14 holds the key. People are given a glimpse into the spiritual realm and what do they see? Apparently the throne room scene of Revelation 5 where He who sits on the throne and the Lamb can also be seen.

I think that this "sign" of the Son of Man is distinctly different from when people actually see the Son of Man.

 

[mark kennedy]

Good point. I think Revelation 6:14 holds the key. People are given a glimpse into the spiritual realm and what do they see? Apparently the throne room scene of Revelation 5 where He who sits on the throne and the Lamb can also be seen.

I think that this "sign" of the Son of Man is distinctly different from when people actually see the Son of Man.

I'm still inclined to think the shekinah glory of God lights up the sky, this is the only way I can explain everyone knowing who is doing this to them. Paul tells us, "God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made" (Rom. 1:20). Did you ever notice atheists never ask what God is like, If I meet someone who has meet an alien that's my first question. If you notice in the Gospels Jesus doesn't tell anyone he is King of the Jews, but everyone knew it, Pilate even nailed that to the cross where the crime is supposed to go. When Pilate asks him if he is a king, Jesus says, 'did someone tell you or did you figure it out for yourself'.

Jesus never specifically tells us what the 'sign of the Son of Man' is, but there is no doubt that it is unmistakably the 'wrath of the Lamb'

They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! (Rev. 6:16)
​

We are not going to know until it happens but my theory is, it's the glory of God filling the skies after the natural lights have gone dark.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[mark kennedy]

I'm asking you to look at how many armies leave heaven with the Rider in Rev. 19? Is it plural? How many armies does He fight with later at the end of Rev. 19?

They way I get it, he has a major campaign where even the kings of the east (china ?) gets involved. As far as I can tell they all work out their differences and somehow convinces everyone they can win this fight. How many armies? All of them I think, or at least whats left of them. There are at least ten since there are ten horns, which are kingdoms. How many are represented by the kings of the east I don't know but how ever many, it's pretty much all of them.

 

[FrankDux]

There's always this:

" And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: "

Revelation 12:1

...which seems to be directly based on Babylonian omen texts, including the very terminology of the verse

Plus,

The sign of Jonah verses mention a red sky, Mesopotamian astronomers placed importance on recording and observing red eclipses more than any other kind ( " lunar eclipses known as " blood moons " )

Red light happens to be ~ 666 nanometers in wavelength

Also, in the framework of Mesopotamian literature concerning eclipses, "eclipses were refereed to as " floods ", and the " coming of the Son of Man " is associated with " the flood "

Just some things to consider

 

[Blade]

"The only time of year this event can be witnessed, is in late September"
1st thank you.. bless you for to look for long for His coming as He promised. You know.. side note.. the word says many in the last days ask not where is He? No.. wheres the SIGN of His coming...hmm Christians ask this...anyway

What you said about "the only time"..forgive me is not written. We know everything Jesus said did was not of Him but was the Father. And HE said.. no man not the angels nor even Jesus knows when.

In simple words..as I can only speak lol.. God jumps around. For me this "sign" is clear who the woman is and the dragon that took with him 1/3 of the stars. Was it the future or past..

For me.. His own people had no clue He was coming yet.. NEW the so called OT in side and out. Yet this GOD stood face to face and still missed it. And lol I am to think KNOW I am better? That I will know?

So we need proof. Ok.. hmm once saved always saved? No.. you can sin and loose your salvation. Gifts? As in healing tongues and 7 others. Are of GOD and for today. No.. the gifts are gone not for today and tongues is of the devil. Hell? Real! No.. there is no hell. Shall I keep going? And talking about a time in which no one knows when just the seasons yet from what I read and believe the Chruch will not be here. See when we read Rev.. for ME it seems to JUMP back and forth. Yet also there are beings ALREADY in heaven...anyway. He will not strive with man for ever.

So as long as YOU keep your eyes on Christ and expect Him NOW for He told us He was leaving and would come back and get us/take us/receive us unto Himself so where He is we will be. WHERE He goes we know HOW He goes we know. So ....just DO what HE said. HE said .. I am going to make you a home and will come back and get you. DONT get stuck on all the things MAN says in between. Just take HIM at HIS word and LIVE as if HE is coming now.. repent love forgive help be the servant to all.

And.. has it really been over 2000 years? Or just over 2 days? Yeah.. He never forgot and is not sloppy in anyway. Remember His joy.. His loning to see you hold you ... and NEVER let you go.. you have no way to measure it. Yeah.. HE MADE YOU and .. you think He just wants to pat you on the back? Yeshua is coming.. HE cant lie. I dont care what MAN says.. For me.. HE has NEVER lied to me and has to this very day ALWAYS keep His word and not to boast in JESUS name but always keeps HIS word with me.. it ALWAYS happens. HE IS COMING>. WOW AWESOME

 

[Quasar92]

Or may be not, considering the cheapest copy I can find is close $100

The book, "The Star That Astonished the World," by Ernest L. Martin, is available from www.askelm.com for $23.95, for U.S. customers. They list the book as, "The Star of Bethlehem." It's the same book.

Hope this helps.


Quasar92

 

[Mountainmike]

The book, "The Star That Astonished the World," by Ernest L. Martin, is available from www.askelm.com for $23.95, for U.S. customers. They list the book as, "The Star of Bethlehem." It's the same book.

Hope this helps.


Quasar92

Thanks.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Quasar92]

Look at the difference between Armageddon/battle at the end of Rev. 19 and the end of Daniel 11. Rev. 19's ending is not when the great tribulation ends, but the end of the vials of God's wrath.
The little horn is the second mouth of the beast out of the sea. This mouth falls at the end of Daniel 11. The beast out of the sea falls at Armageddon.
The little horn goes down after the 7th trumpet sounds and Christ returns in the air. But the beast out of the sea goes down after the pouring of the vials full.

What happens before the battle at the end of Rev. 19?
frog types get sent out to do miracles and deceive the world - to gather them to battle
This time of the three frogs is not part of the great tribulation under the little horn. Notice that one frog type comes out of the mouth of the beast that came up from the sea. This shows that he has gone back to having only one mouth again - the little horn mouth is no longer helping him. That mouth was taken down earlier after the 7th trumpet sounded. Rev. 18 shows this too, as look at the message that goes out before any of the full vials get poured.

Review the following link of four posts to learn the Scriptural chronological order of end time events.

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

Review the following link of four posts to learn the Scriptural chronological order of end time events.

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum


Quasar92

Why don't you explain why you need a pretrib rapture of the Church.

You need to get the Church off the planet so that God can go back and deal with modern Israel under the now "obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13) Old Covenant system, even though the New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.

And to make this work, you must ignore the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24, which is found in Acts 10:38 and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Matthew 26:28.

You must also ignore the fulfillment of the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:6-13.

You must ignore those under the Blood of the Lamb in Revelation 12:11.

You must ignore John the Baptists warning in Matthew 3:9 and Timothy's warning in 1 Timothy 1:4.





And then the greatest error, is the claim that modern Jews will be saved outside of the New Covenant Church.

.