The Shortest Day Brevissima

[Standing Up]

Since many are intent on finding the non-biblical source of our identifying 12/25 as Christ's birth, this may help.

"The Christmas festival was probably the Christian transformation or regeneration of a series of kindred heathen festivals—the Saturnalia, Sigillaria, Juvenalia, and Brumalia—which were kept in Rome in the month of December, in commemoration of the golden age of universal freedom and equality, and in honor of the unconquered sun, and which were great holidays, especially for slaves and children.721

721 The Satumalia were the feast of Saturn or Kronos, in representation of the golden days of his reign, when all labor ceased, prisoners were set free, slaves went about in gentlemen’s clothes and in the hat (the mark of a freeman), and all classes gave themselves up to mirth and rejoicing. The Sigillaria were a festival of images and puppets at the close of the Saturnalia on the 21st and 22d of December, when miniature images of the gods, wax tapers, and all sorts of articles of beauty and luxury were distributed to children and among kinsfolk. The Brumalia, from bruma (brevissima, the shortest day), had reference to the winter solstice, and the return of the Sol invictus."​

History of the Christian Church, Volume III: Nicene and Post-Nicene Christianity. A.D. 311-600. - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

"The name of Brumalia comes from brvma, [ˈbruːma], "Winter solstice", "Winter cold"; a shortening of *brevima, [ˈbrɛwɪma], presumed obsolete superlative form of brevis, later brevissima ("smallest", "shallowest", "briefest")."
Brumalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IOW, Brumalia is the source.

Saturnalia 12/17-12/23
Sigillaria 12/23 (the last day of Saturnalia)
Juvenalia maybe 12/24 (the emperor's transition from child to adult)
Brumalia 12/25 the winter solstice
Return of Sol Invictus

PS The winter solstice changes days through the centuries, so presumably these dates would float.

PPS By now, this 12/25 connection to the Roman pagan holidays culminating in Brumalia is long forgotten.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

<Snip>

PPS By now, this 12/25 connection to the Roman pagan holidays culminating in Brumalia is long forgotten.

Good thing.

The word of God endures forever! If the early Chruch had not placed the commemoration of the Nativity of our Lord on that day; Brumalil and all of those others may not have been forgotten as universally as they have been.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Winter solstice is not the 25th of December. Try the 21st or 22nd.

 

[Standing Up]

While I appreciate the comments, please read the OP, including the PS. Otherwise it just makes for tedious "conversation". IOW, why question what's already been clearly acknowledged?

We all know the solstice and equinox days "move" through fixed time. Hence ancient calendars have changes (like 13 months) to make adjustments.

The OP point remains. The observance of 12/25 sources to the Roman Brumalia (and hence to Saturnalia). That Roman Christians embraced the same symbolism of the unconquered sun is obvious. Some even recall that is the reason for observing 12/25.

 

[Standing Up]

Good thing.

The word of God endures forever! If the early Chruch had not placed the commemoration of the Nativity of our Lord on that day; Brumalil and all of those others may not have been forgotten as universally as they have been.

Well, folks are looking again for answers as evidenced each Christmas time on GT. Now we have the answer.

12/25 sources not to apostles, which everyone knows, but to the pagan Roman holiday of Brumalia and hence Saturnalia, which not everyone knows.

 

[elliott95]

Christmas is definitely not according to apostolic teaching, for none of the twelve would have possibly have been in a position to celebrate a feast day that had not been invented until centuries after they had passed on.

Evangelization nevertheless is a part of apostolic teaching, and Christmas is one more example of the evangelization effort bearing great fruits and transforming the hearts and minds of the transnational culture that emanated from Rome.

Christmas is like Paul making reference to the unknown god that pagans worshiped. Christmas takes what is familiar to the pagans, and makes that all about Christ, to the point where the original meaning is not only forgotten, but no longer even exists.

The winter solstice will always be with us. It preceded pagans, and it is a recurring teaching moment. What better teaching moment in the cold dark of a European winter could there be, than to use that recurring astronomical event to remind people that the darkness has been witness to a great light.

 

[Rick Otto]

Yeah, but everybody does it, so it's OK.


If the... excuse me, The Church had decided to put it on say, The Feast of Booths, then all the pagan parties would never have been mis-identified.

 

[elliott95]

Yeah, but everybody does it, so it's OK.


If the... excuse me, The Church had decided to put it on say, The Feast of Booths, then all the pagan parties would never have been mis-identified.

I think a big part of the churches thinking at the time was to put it on ANYTHING BUT the Feast of Booths, or anything at all Jewish.
That was the reason the Easter formula was arrived at, so as never to be celebrated on the same day as the Jews celebrated Passover.

 

[Rick Otto]

I agree, and it was a mistake to compete, IMHO.

 

[Standing Up]

Christmas is definitely not according to apostolic teaching, for none of the twelve would have possibly have been in a position to celebrate a feast day that had not been invented until centuries after they had passed on.

Evangelization nevertheless is a part of apostolic teaching, and Christmas is one more example of the evangelization effort bearing great fruits and transforming the hearts and minds of the transnational culture that emanated from Rome.

Christmas is like Paul making reference to the unknown god that pagans worshiped. Christmas takes what is familiar to the pagans, and makes that all about Christ, to the point where the original meaning is not only forgotten, but no longer even exists.

The winter solstice will always be with us. It preceded pagans, and it is a recurring teaching moment. What better teaching moment in the cold dark of a European winter could there be, than to use that recurring astronomical event to remind people that the darkness has been witness to a great light.

A better teaching moment than a pagan holiday? How about the "always with us" fall equinox when Booths was practiced. As in, Emmanuel, God with us.

 

[Standing Up]

I think a big part of the churches thinking at the time was to put it on ANYTHING BUT the Feast of Booths, or anything at all Jewish.
That was the reason the Easter formula was arrived at, so as never to be celebrated on the same day as the Jews celebrated Passover.

Exactly. Columbanus would ask why celebrate a dark Easter? He could very well have asked why observe a pagan holiday Brumalia? Just to avoid anything Jewish? Isn't Messiah Jewish?

 

[Rick Otto]

Indulging that stupid aversion was a serious mistake.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

WHO. FREAKING. CARES? Go to church and celebrate the advent and nativity of our Lord.

 

[Rick Otto]

I do. Thank you kindly for being concerned enough to ask.
I do admit to some nostalgia for those long ago days of carefree ignorance when all that was required of me was unquestioning obedience, tho.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

It's almost like you guys are celebrating the long forgotten pagan ties to particular calender days. Tonight we sang Compline; one of the prayers was an exorcism of the snares of the devil:
"Visit our dwellings, O Lord, and drive from them all the snares of the enemy; let Your holy angels dwell with us to preserve us in peace; and let your blessing be on us always; through Jesus Christ, our Lord. (419)"

The Holy Spirit has done that for us with the covering over of such pagan customs with the commemoration of our Lord's incarnation and with this time of preparation for His return.

Yet, it would seem, that there is great joy for some in scraping off that covering of Christian devotion and piety to bring to light the very evil that our Lord Jesus Christ came to defeat. What better way to defeat the evil one than to seal over all traces of that decrepit filth with a Festival devoted to our Saviors incarnation and in anticipation to His glorious return when all remembrance of such dishonorable and evil things be cast with the father of lies into the lake of fire. In the world to come all such recolation of these pagan festivals will be obliterated, they will not matter. To a true Christian, today, this minute, right now, they matter not.

Why then are they such a preoccupation?

 

[elliott95]

A better teaching moment than a pagan holiday? How about the "always with us" fall equinox when Booths was practiced. As in, Emmanuel, God with us.

It is an unfortunate twist of history that the Jewish holy days have been forgotten to all but the Jews. Remembering Christ on those days would have been a worthwhile venture in terms of evangelizing.

In terms of people forgetting the pagan ones and remembering Christ on those days, there is nothing unfortunate about that.

 

[James Is Back]

It's almost like you guys are celebrating the long forgotten pagan ties to particular calender days. Tonight we sang Compline; one of the prayers was an exorcism of the snares of the devil:
"Visit our dwellings, O Lord, and drive from them all the snares of the enemy; let Your holy angels dwell with us to preserve us in peace; and let your blessing be on us always; through Jesus Christ, our Lord. (419)"

The Holy Spirit has done that for us with the covering over of such pagan customs with the commemoration of our Lord's incarnation and with this time of preparation for His return.

Yet, it would seem, that there is great joy for some in scraping off that covering of Christian devotion and piety to bring to light the very evil that our Lord Jesus Christ came to defeat. What better way to defeat the evil one than to seal over all traces of that decrepit filth with a Festival devoted to our Saviors incarnation and in anticipation to His glorious return when all remembrance of such dishonorable and evil things be cast with the father of lies into the lake of fire. In the world to come all such recolation of these pagan festivals will be obliterated, they will not matter. To a true Christian, today, this minute, right now, they matter not.

Why then are they such a preoccupation?

Good post agreed

 

[Standing Up]

Good post agreed

As mentioned, each Christmas folks wonder from where it arose? We now know an answer.

 

[Standing Up]

WHO. FREAKING. CARES? Go to church and celebrate the advent and nativity of our Lord.

Now now, calm down when you're singing "Silent Night".

PS It may help to recall that we are the church.

 

[Rick Otto]

It's almost like you guys are celebrating the long forgotten pagan ties to particular calender days. Tonight we sang Compline; one of the prayers was an exorcism of the snares of the devil:
"Visit our dwellings, O Lord, and drive from them all the snares of the enemy; let Your holy angels dwell with us to preserve us in peace; and let your blessing be on us always; through Jesus Christ, our Lord. (419)"

The Holy Spirit has done that for us with the covering over of such pagan customs with the commemoration of our Lord's incarnation and with this time of preparation for His return.

Yet, it would seem, that there is great joy for some in scraping off that covering of Christian devotion and piety to bring to light the very evil that our Lord Jesus Christ came to defeat. What better way to defeat the evil one than to seal over all traces of that decrepit filth with a Festival devoted to our Saviors incarnation and in anticipation to His glorious return when all remembrance of such dishonorable and evil things be cast with the father of lies into the lake of fire. In the world to come all such recolation of these pagan festivals will be obliterated, they will not matter. To a true Christian, today, this minute, right now, they matter not.

Why then are they such a preoccupation?

Yeah, Mark... we never tire of your heartfelt love.
We just have a different sense of "timing" when it comes to expressing ours, not to celebrate or rain on (other than this one place here), what boils down to a switch in our opinion.
So cut us some slack brothers, have some respect, give us some space,... be nice, at least. We don't insist you pawn your ornaments.
I enjoy funnin' with ya Mark, you have a good sense of humor...
Besides Christmas, do you also cling to your guns?