The Shack

[Willie T]

I'm using the word not in a general sense....but by the actual church history standards (and I hope that Seashale was also). With that meaning of the word, it's much more concise.....you know?

I understand. But even lashing it to strictly something 'churchy', it is still no more than what traditions have come to tell us we are to accept.

I think we all know the Apostles never posed for paintings so that future Icons of them could be crafted. And Jesus certainly never did. And the God third of the Trinity did not either.

In all that post above, I was only trying to show that it has to be expected that a huge percentage of the church has certain expectations of definite, presumed physical attributes that, if violated, disrupt a major portion of the very basis of their faith.

 

[mkgal1]

In all that post above, I was only trying to show that it has to be expected that a huge percentage of the church has certain physical attributes that, if violated, disrupts a major portion of the very basis of their faith.

True.

I've been watching.....listening....reading a lot of different sources today, so I'm unsure of where this came from specifically, but I heard/read that many of us have formed a "house of cards" faith---something that can easily be brought down once the truth of reality hits it. But.....instead of allowing the false beliefs to naturally fall away....we hold tightly to them (they've built our identity---we can't let that get destroyed!)...we defend....defend.....defend (usually loudly and rudely)....and consider all that "battling for the faith"

 

[mkgal1]

For some examples of "House of Cards" faith. Beliefs like:

God doesn't give us more than we can bear.

God cares for "His people"....and, if we're faithful....our prayers will be heard and answered.

God provides (taken to mean financially--and maybe even medically).

 

[All4Christ]

I'm uncomfortable with the Shack. (Disclaimer: I read the book but not the movie).

I understand the necessity of showing God's love, reaching out to those who have experienced trials and have felt abandoned in the past, etc. Showing some of the loving characteristics is very helpful. God's love needs to be shown to others - and we Christians often struggle with that.

First, I am hesitant to have any visible representation of God (the Father). As I'm sure some know, the Orthodox Church teaches that only God the Son can be depicted visually, and the Holy Spirit as a Dove. The one exception is the Hospitality of Abraham - since that actually happened. Am I too careful on this point? Perhaps - but I think it is an important clarification on the reasoning for allowing religious depictions (icons in our case) of God. Yes - I know some icons depict God the Father, but those icons are not canonical and go against the directions of the Ecumenical Councils - and imho, goes against Scripture.

Second, I also am very picky with any theology depicted in fiction. It is all too easy to portray theology in a way that is not clear or accurate. I realize that this isn't meant to be a theological exposition, but many do pick up on pieces of theology and do not feel that it is needed to learn the actual beliefs behind it. I guess this comes down to beliefs as to whether it is better to bring God in some form into a person's life with the possibility of misunderstanding - or make sure that the person understands the core truths of Christianity. I suppose that also is impacted by what you believe the core truths are.

Based on those points, and based on the confusion of many (if not most) Christians on the Trinity (and other Theology), I am more comfortable with the "Hallmark" types of movies that mainly showing the relationship of a person with God, or movies depicting Biblical events.

Just my personal perspective

ETA: This is my opinion for my personal choice to skip the movie. If someone asks my opinion, I'll explain my thoughts, but I won't judge someone for going My Mom for example is really excited about the movie - and I completely respect her beliefs and know she believes and understands the "core" beliefs of Christianity.

 

[AACJ]

Actually I've said it is your call. Why do you seem to have a problem with people who are simply telling you that you are missing a good book?

Maybe because you are calling it a good book or movie. It may very well have some good insight. Overall though, it might be doing more damage than good. Satan can present his work in a very attractive manner just like He did to eve in the Garden. He is expert in mixing in a little truth with lies to make his work seem harmless and even pleasant/good. After all, God's Word mentions Him appearing as an angel of light, does it not?

Presenting our Father God as a women has far reaching negative ramifications and effects. One of the main problems here is the fact that you and others are apparently unaware of most if not all of those.

 

[Archivist]

Maybe because you are calling it a good book or movie. It may very well have some good insight. Overall though, it might be doing more damage than good. Satan can present his work in a very attractive manner just like He did to eve in the Garden. He is expert in mixing in a little truth with lies to make his work seem harmless and even pleasant/good. After all, God's Word mentions Him appearing as an angel of light, does it not?

So are you claiming that this book and movie is the work of Satan?

Presenting our Father God as a women has far reaching negative ramifications and effects. One of the main problems here is the fact that you and others are apparently unaware of most if not all of those.

My view is that God is neither male or female and, at the same time, both male and female. Exactly what are these "far reaching negative ramifications and effects" that would come from portarying God the father as a woman.

 

[AACJ]

So are you claiming that this book and movie is the work of Satan?



My view is that God is neither male or female and, at the same time, both male and female. Exactly what are these "far reaching negative ramifications and effects" that would come from portarying God the father as a woman.

I have already provided some evidence against your claim of gender neutrality and mentioned some of the negative consequences of assigning gender neutrality to God Almighty. Please read my other posts on this thread.

 

[Archivist]

I have already provided some evidence against your claim of gender neutrality and mentioned some of the negative consequences of assigning gender neutrality to God Almighty. Please read my other posts on this thread.

Yes, I've read those. I and others have posted material supporting my statement that God is both male and female and neither male and female.

You are, of course, entitled to believe your own interpretation.

 

[dayhiker]

Another way I have used to evaluate books is to read the Amazon comments about a book and a book that says its false. Which book has the comments that has the testimonies of how God has spoken to them thru the book. The few I've done that with its been amazing to read what God is doing thru the controversial book. Some of you might want to try that some time.

 

[mkgal1]

First, I am hesitant to have any visible representation of God (the Father). As I'm sure some know, the Orthodox Church teaches that only God the Son can be depicted visually, and the Holy Spirit as a Dove. The one exception is the Hospitality of Abraham - since that actually happened. Am I too careful on this point? Perhaps - but I think it is an important clarification on the reasoning for allowing religious depictions (icons in our case) of God. Yes - I know some icons depict God the Father, but those icons are not canonical and go against the directions of the Ecumenical Councils - and imho, goes against Scripture.

Your posts are always so respectful, Laura

I actually wasn't aware of the Orthodox teaching that only God the son can be depicted visually. The way I see it, though.....is that this movie (and book) aren't really portraying God (Trinity) in a visual way (per se) because this was a dream or vision while Mac was unconscious. I see it as a metaphor...just like all the verses that describe God as other metaphors (a potter, a shepherd, lion, a rock....etc). You know how you have a dream and you know the cast of characters (but you don't really recognize their faces....you somehow just know)? I see this as God coming to Mac in his spirit...in a way that Mac would "receive".

But.....I admire and respect your [personal] convictions.

I was watching a talk that Wm Paul Young (the author) had given, and he was saying that whole (healthy/freed) people connected to God are what manifest God in unique ways (I'm paraphrasing). That's something to think about (IMO). The Bible describes us as "the Body of Christ"....and with all our diversity, I think that says something about God. What I deduce from that is that there's so much greatness about God--He is so vast-- that we need to consider ALL the aspects...all the variety....all the diversity (and not perceive God to be "a critical Father" that's distant from us).

 

[mkgal1]

Another way I have used to evaluate books is to read the Amazon comments about a book and a book that says its false. Which book has the comments that has the testimonies of how God has spoken to them thru the book. The few I've done that with its been amazing to read what God is doing thru the controversial book. Some of you might want to try that some time.

Right. We know wise teaching by it's fruit.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Which book has the comments that has the testimonies of how God has spoken to them thru the book. The few I've done that with its been amazing to read what God is doing thru the controversial book.

God works through His word. The work you speak of must be from some other force.

 

[mkgal1]

God works through His word. The work you speak of must be from some other force.

.....and His Spirit
.....and His creation (even a talking donkey!)

 

[mkgal1]

God works through His word. The work you speak of must be from some other force.

You don't glean insight from *any* other books besides the Bible? None? No commentary.....nothing? You don't listen to a pastor on Sundays (or any other day)?

 

[mkgal1]

God works through His word. The work you speak of must be from some other force.

I'd also be curious to know how you define the phrase, "God works". What does that even mean to you?

One [real life] story that always comes to my mind is this one. A dear friend was the one to first relay it to me....and it's always seemed to me to be a beautiful example of "God working". Would you dismiss this, since it's not "through His word"?

For those not wishing to click on link and read the whole story:

From the very first prenatal visit it was clear there was something wrong with Gina Walker’s pregnancy.

“They couldn’t find a heartbeat,” she told TODAY’s Ann Curry. “And they told me that I most likely had miscarried.” She hadn’t – but the complications continued. “Every week there was a new diagnosis. Every week it was something new. I had blood clots, hemorrhages.”

Walker eventually gave birth to a healthy baby girl, but she nearly lost her life in the process. It took almost 35 gallons of blood and seven days in an induced coma to save the San Antonio woman who is now being called the “miracle mom.”


On February 15 of this year, Gina Walker went in to the hospital to deliver her baby by C-section.

The delivery went fine, but afterwards things started to quickly go wrong. Although Parker and his team knew that the condition could cause hemorrhaging, they were stunned by how much blood Walker was losing. She eventually went through 35 gallons of blood -- the average woman's body contains just over one gallon of blood.


Sitting in the waiting room, Walker’s husband, Dustin, watched as the blood began to arrive.

“I started noticing cooler after cooler of blood that had my wife’s name on it,” he told TODAY. “You know, up and down the hallways, constantly. That’s when I started to get worried.”

The whole hospital was working to save Walker. "We knew that we had an OB patient up there," said Sherrie Walker, transfusion medicine manager at University Hospital. "We knew there was a baby involved. ... Everybody was working so hard and so fast to get this done."

Knowing that Gina might need transfusions, Dustin had reached out to friends before she went in to the hospital to ask them to donate blood. The response was overwhelming.

“A lot of our friends took the idea of donating blood and passed it along to all their friends,” he told Curry. “Around the country, they go the word out. And we had several blood drives.”

Even people as far away as Canada offered to donate blood.

Gina was amazed that so many people were willing to help her.

“I don’t know how many people [donated blood],” she told Curry. “I really couldn’t tell you. I just know that it spread quickly and there were people from everywhere.”

Gina’s response to the outpouring of help?

“Thank you,” she said. “Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

“It was truly a blessing that everyone went out and did that. And I thank God that there are good people out there that will take the time to go do that because it saves lives.”

 

[All4Christ]

Your posts are always so respectful, Laura

I'm glad to hear that....thank you!

I actually wasn't aware of the Orthodox teaching that only God the son can be depicted visually.

Due to time, I can't respond in detail to your post, but I thought you might find this interesting. I've been researching this lately. (Everyone - please excuse the off topic post - I don't want to change the topic)
Rublev's "Old Testament Trinity" - Writings - Frederica.com
Image of God the Father in Orthodox Theology and Iconography

Therefore I venture to draw an image of the invisible God, not as invisible, but as having become visible for our sakes through flesh and blood. I do not draw an image of the immortal Godhead. I paint the visible flesh of God, for it is impossible to represent [6] a spirit, how much more God who gives breath to the spirit.

 

[mkgal1]

Thanks for posting that, Laura.

I'm still thinking about the phrase "God works through His word"--and I even wonder what you meant by "His word" in that (directed to JimmyJimmy)?

You don't mean the Bible....do you? We know the Word (with a capital "C") was in the beginning (so that's not Jesus of Nazareth). I'm looking forward to your definition, because in my opinion, there's quite a bit packed into just those few words.