The Seventh Day is the SABBATH of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10

[1stcenturylady]

If the law shows us our sin, but we don't sin, we are no longer under any law.

1 John 3:6 New King James Version (NKJV)

6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

 

[BobRyan]

If the law shows us our sin, but we don't sin, we are no longer under any law. .

true - if you don't sin you are not under the condemnation of the law.

If you don't break the speed limit you are not under condemnation of a traffic ticket.

But the law still exists.

The self-conflicted statement "I obey the speed limit so there is no speed limit" is a fallacy.

 

[1stcenturylady]

true - if you don't sin you are not under the condemnation of the law.

If you don't break the speed limit you are not under condemnation of a traffic ticket.

But the law still exists.

The self-conflicted statement "I obey the speed limit so there is no speed limit" is a fallacy.

True, but only for those who sin. But a true Christian doesn't, and that is why we are not under the law. Only those whose father is still the devil, sin.

1 John 3:4-10

 

[BobRyan]

if you don't sin you are not under the condemnation of the law.

If you don't break the speed limit you are not under condemnation of a traffic ticket.

But the law still exists.

The self-conflicted statement "I obey the speed limit so there is no speed limit" is a fallacy.

True, but only for those who sin.

The example I gave was of one that does not exceed the speed limit.

In Hebrews 8:6-10 it is the saints that have the LAW of God written on the heart.

In Rev 14:12 it is the saints who "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

In 1 John 5:2-3 it is the saints about whom it is written "this IS the LOVE of God - that we KEEP His Commandments"

 

[BobRyan]

If the law shows us our sin, but we don't sin, we are no longer under any law.

You are under a law - but not under the condemnation of it in that case.

 

[1stcenturylady]

You are under a law - but not under the condemnation of it in that case.

Yes, we are under a law, but not the Old law. We are under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ, which has freed me from the law of sin and death. Why? Because we are now dead to sin. Only being alive to sin keeps me under the law. Death has freed me from my husband, the law.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, we are under a law, but not the Old law.

There is no such thing in the NT or OT as "not under the same LAW as is in the Old Covenant"

hence it is still a "Sin" to take God's name in vain.

That same LAW - known to Jeremiah and his readers is Jeremiah 31:31-33 is the one that it "written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant. "THIS IS the NEW Covenant ... I will write My LAWs on their heart"

This is irrefutable.

Which is why the TEN Commandments get quoted in the NT in Mark 7:6-13, in Matt 19 to the rich young ruler, in Romans 7, in Romans 13, in James 2 and it is why Paul goes out of his way in Ephesians 6:2 to drag the TEN commandments into the discussion.

We are under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ, which includes God's Commandments - God's TEN Commandments.

"this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

 

[BobRyan]

Some have proposed that "the first day is the Sabbath... the Christian Sabbath" and some have proposed that "no day is the Sabbath - it is deleted" and others "no day is the Sabbath - it is spiritualized away".

But the Bible text remains.

"The SEVENTH day is the SABBATH of the Lord thy God" Exodus 20:10

The Lord's Day!

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words," Is 58:13

The Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath day - Mark 2:28

So also the "Sabbath was made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
From "Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23.


In the Bible you find that the "NEW Covenant" includes the LAW of God "written on the heart and mind" - Jeremiah 31:31-33.

And in Ephesians 6:2 we find that the 5th Commandment is the "first commandment with a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN - that scripture calls the "TEN Commandments"

The New Covenant is made with "the house of Israel" and that includes all Christians in Hebrews 8:6-10.


And of course


Ex 20
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Gen 2:1-4
Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens
Exodus 20:11

 

[listed]

true - if you don't sin you are not under the condemnation of the law.

If you don't break the speed limit you are not under condemnation of a traffic ticket.

But the law still exists.

The self-conflicted statement "I obey the speed limit so there is no speed limit" is a fallacy.

True although a violation still regulates a persons actions. That means they are under the law. Romans says there isn't any condemnation for those walking in the Spirit. The law has no authority over the born again new man's soul. It's obvious you've no comprehension of the conversation Jesus had with Nicodemus in John 3. The body you're trying to regulate isn't redeemed or born again. Your misapplied quote of Romans 8:4-9 proves this point. Verse 7 says: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. The carnal mind still exists upon death of the physical body until it decays into dust. This carnal mind won't ever be raised from the dead. It's not the carnal mind that dies in Romans 6. We are to renew our carnal mind by infusing Scripture. It's the Scripture that feeds the new man (born again soul). The body of flesh (carnal mind) doesn't ever eat Scripture (Matthew 4). It can't exist without physical food. It isn't the carnal mind (body of flesh) that fellowships with God. The carnal mind does fellowship with other carnal minds.

Ephesians 4
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Romans 8
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Verse 11 says it will give life to the mortal body (carnal mind). It doesn't say anything about eternal life. Life isn't merely existing in a physical form. This we know because the physical body is alive. Sadly that is the only thing most people think about. It causes sin (seperation from God). Verse 13 is more on the subject of the mortal body of flesh.

What is the bondage of fear in verse 15? Isn't it the law? Violation brought physical death as Numbers 15. This causes fear as in scared verse speaks about. The word used means: terror.

 

[listed]

Yes, we are under a law, but not the Old law. We are under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ, which has freed me from the law of sin and death. Why? Because we are now dead to sin. Only being alive to sin keeps me under the law. Death has freed me from my husband, the law.

Yes because the law has died. What is dead has no effect on us, unless of course we eat it. I take it you don't eat your dead husband.

 

[listed]

There is no such thing in the NT or OT as "not under the same LAW as is in the Old Covenant"

hence it is still a "Sin" to take God's name in vain.

That same LAW - known to Jeremiah and his readers is Jeremiah 31:31-33 is the one that it "written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant. "THIS IS the NEW Covenant ... I will write My LAWs on their heart"

This is irrefutable.

Which is why the TEN Commandments get quoted in the NT in Mark 7:6-13, in Matt 19 to the rich young ruler, in Romans 7, in Romans 13, in James 2 and it is why Paul goes out of his way in Ephesians 6:2 to drag the TEN commandments into the discussion.

We are under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ, which includes God's Commandments - God's TEN Commandments.

"this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

There you go quoting "you" as you often say. What you said above isn't found in Scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

There is no such thing in the NT or OT as "not under the same LAW as is in the Old Covenant"

hence it is still a "Sin" to take God's name in vain.

That same LAW - known to Jeremiah and his readers is Jeremiah 31:31-33 is the one that it "written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant. "THIS IS the NEW Covenant ... I will write My LAWs on their heart"

This is irrefutable.

Which is why the TEN Commandments get quoted in the NT in Mark 7:6-13, in Matt 19 to the rich young ruler, in Romans 7, in Romans 13, in James 2 and it is why Paul goes out of his way in Ephesians 6:2 to drag the TEN commandments into the discussion.

We are under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ, which includes God's Commandments - God's TEN Commandments.

"this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

There you go quoting "you" as you often say. What you said above isn't found in Scripture.

"Under the LAW" is a term that Paul often uses to mean "under the condemnation of the law".

Rom 3:19-20
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

"ALL have sinned" Rom 3:23


"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
=============

AND even in the NT it is SIN to "Take God's name in vain" Exodus 20:7

 

[1stcenturylady]

There is no such thing in the NT or OT as "not under the same LAW as is in the Old Covenant"

hence it is still a "Sin" to take God's name in vain.

That same LAW - known to Jeremiah and his readers is Jeremiah 31:31-33 is the one that it "written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant. "THIS IS the NEW Covenant ... I will write My LAWs on their heart"

This is irrefutable.

Which is why the TEN Commandments get quoted in the NT in Mark 7:6-13, in Matt 19 to the rich young ruler, in Romans 7, in Romans 13, in James 2 and it is why Paul goes out of his way in Ephesians 6:2 to drag the TEN commandments into the discussion.

We are under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ, which includes God's Commandments - God's TEN Commandments.

"this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3




"Under the LAW" is a term that Paul often uses to mean "under the condemnation of the law".

Rom 3:19-20
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

"ALL have sinned" Rom 3:23


"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
=============

AND even in the NT it is SIN to "Take God's name in vain" Exodus 20:7

You say Paul is speaking of a different law that we are not under. Wrong. It is the same law as the Old Covenant. Through Christ we are dead to that law, the Ten Commandments. You know, the one that says "thou shalt not covet."

4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "You shall not covet.”

 

[BobRyan]

You say Paul is speaking of a different law that we are not under.

Huh???

Are you talking to me? I am the one that keeps saying it is the same moral law of God in both NT and OT but in one case it is only external and on stone (For the lost) and in the other case it is written on the heart (the saints.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Huh???

Are you talking to me? I am the one that keeps saying it is the same moral law of God in both NT and OT but in one case it is only external and on stone (For the lost) and in the other case it is written on the heart (the saints.

Well, I'm sorry then. Scripture says we are not under the law but under grace, so what law is that then?

 

[BobRyan]

Well, I'm sorry then. Scripture says we are not under the law but under grace, so what law is that then?

Rom 3:19-20 says the term "under law" means "under condemnation of the Law" -- and the result is that the TEN Commandments still operate - even for Christians it is "sin" to "take God's name in vain".

Obviously.

Thus Romans 3:31.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Rom 3:19-20 says the term "under law" means "under condemnation of the Law" -- and the result is that the TEN Commandments still operate - even for Christians it is "sin" to "take God's name in vain".

Obviously.

Thus Romans 3:31.

That doesn't make sense. If we are not under the condemnation of the law, then we can break the law and not be condemned. That's ridiculous. Either we are not under the law at all but under grace, or we are still under the law and also the condemnation of the law.

What we are not under is the REASON for the law - sin. If we have the Holy Spirit then we are dead to sin, and are no longer in NEED of the law. Romans 7 says we died to the law; Romans 6 says we are dead to sin, and Romans 8 says we are not in the flesh but in the Spirit.

So instead of wasting so much energy trying to camouflage keeping the Sabbath Commandment under the guise you don't want anyone taking God's name in vain, we should be encouraging each other to walk in the Spirit and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Also to cultivate the fruit of the Spirit.

It is no longer about law, but about THE HOLY SPIRIT!

 

[FredVB]

If the law shows us our sin, but we don't sin, we are no longer under any law.

1 John 3:6 New King James Version
Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

We have no excuse to go on sinning, but being redeemed, we still for now can't say, we just don't sin anymore. With the guidance of God's Spirit, we should be on our guard, to not fall into any sin, which easily happens, as with having new spiritual life we for now still have a fallen nature. So we don't have that basis for not being under the law. But with being redeemed, we have Christ for our basis, with our faith in him, to not be under the law. This does not mean that not sinning won't involve obedience to Yahweh God, it is still needed, and to be expected with living faith.

if you don't sin you are not under the condemnation of the law.
But the law still exists.

Anyone apart from Christ is under law. It applies, and also if redeemed in Christ, it applies with penalties involved borne by Christ for us, but it is to free us to not sin still, not to give us more freedom in what was disobedience, and therefore sin.

What though becomes old and ready to vanish, and what is abolished? Really look at Hebrews 9 through Hebrews 10 carefully, and see that the priesthood, the sacrifices, and the ways to be made clean ritually were not to go on as they were in the old covenant, but Christ alone is ever really effective for what is really needed for those things, and the priesthood, sacrifice, and way to be made clean before Yahweh, in the way those things matter, are present in the new covenant. The fulfillment from Jesus does not change what is righteous. If he came as he did, lived righteously as he did, and then departed, the righteousness would be fulfilled, in him, but there would be nothing different really for anyone. His sacrifice after all his teachings and miracles that brought in his followers was effective so that the old covenant priesthood, sacrifices, and ritual ways to be made clean are no longer needed, and those things are not remaining possible in those ways, and only such that is in Christ is effective in the needed way. What is righteous remains the same, and it was all to separate us, who are and who will be redeemed, from sins.

So we are not under the law, I too always say believers are not under the law, it means we will not be under judgment, Christ having borne that for the redeemed, for us if we are in Christ, really acting in love, which is obedient in the commandments. Gentiles did not need to become Jewish to be believers, to be sure, and there were things just for Israel, but there are commandments for all, with what is right for doing before Yahweh.

 

[BobRyan]

We have a modern concept of "above the law" vs "under the law" - that is very different from Paul's use of it. In our context "The mayor should not go speeding through town and then when stopped... claim to be above the law". Rather it is "bad" to be "above the law" and it is correct and just to be "under the law" in our modern use of the phrase.

But as we see in Rom 3:19-20 Paul uses the term "under the Law" to mean " under the condemnation of the law". It is the modern equivalent of "are you still on death row?". If we get pardoned it does not mean we can go out and start murdering .. but it does mean we are no longer on death row.

 

[BobRyan]

And of course week-day-1 is not the seventh day.