1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. We are holding our 2022 Angel Ministry Drive now. Please consider signing up, or if you have any questions about being an Angel, use our staff application form. The world needs more prayer now, and it is a great way to help other members of the forums. :) To Apply...click here

The Seventh Day is the SABBATH of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by BobRyan, Sep 13, 2016.

  1. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,970
    Christian
    Married
    Amen! Lady Amen!
     
  2. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,970
    Christian
    Married
    I know why Bob, they were all completely wrong. Someone started the falsehood and it boomeranged. It is the same with Sunday now being the Sabbath. That is an untruth, we both know it yet it is being preached as I write her and now. I once again lead you to 2Cor 3:7-11 for the real fact about the 10 commandments. Those verses blow your theory out of the water
     
  3. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +4,167
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    The Ten Commandments were the Covenant, Exodus 34:28. Don't you know we have a new covenant with better promises? No longer do we keep the law of sin and death. The law of the SPIRIT of life in Christ has set us free of the law of sin and death. That doesn't mean that the law was bad; no, it was holy and good. But we were in the flesh and had to have laws to guide us. We are no longer in the flesh if the Spirit of Christ indwells us. And if we do not have the Spirit of Christ we do not belong to him.

    I'm going to make this so simple even a toddler could understand it. In fact, even an SDA toddler could understand it.

    If we had no cars or trucks what need would there be for a speed limit? That is the same with the Ten Commandments. If we do not sin, what need is there for laws telling us not to sin?

    Only people with cars and trucks need speed limits, and only people who sin will be judged by the whole law and die. That is why it is called the law of sin and death. But those with the Spirit do not commit willful sin.

    And there is no reason for someone who NEVER takes God's name in vain to have a law telling them thou shalt not take the name of the Lord they God in vain. They would never commit this sin. Why? Because they are under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ. Would Christ take His Father's name in vain? No. And neither will I.



    1 John 3

    Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

    Sin and the Child of God

    4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

    7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

    The Imperative of Love

    10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

    13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

    The Outworking of Love

    16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?

    18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave use commandment.


    The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Error

    24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

    +8,511
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    The LAW on tables of stone in the Ark of the covenant - was the covenant.

    But to argue that "Do not take God's name in vain" is Old Covenant and we are not under that any more - so now go ahead .... take God's name in vain.

    Is a pretty silly religion.

    Not at all what the Bible teaches.

    I think we both know that.

    Just stating the obvious detail - that even the majority of pro-Sunday scholars will admit to about the fact that the LAW of God is "written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant instead of "deleted under the New Covenant".

    You quote "you" pretty well in that case.

    I can do that too

    There is no reason for someone who never chooses rebellion against the Word of God to hear --
    "IF you Love ME KEEP My Commandments"?
    "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6,
    "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12,
    "This is the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

    However -- pointing to God's Word and claiming there is no need of it - is to ignore Romans 3:31, and Romans 8:4-9 and Romans 6 and James 2...

    I prefer "sola scriptura" doctrine approved statements of faith.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. AmazingGraceCountry

    AmazingGraceCountry New Member

    21
    +5
    Ireland
    Christian
    Single
    Well if there is no consensus on which day is the Seventh,
    then as long as we keep the day we believe to be the Sabbath,
    then am sure the Lord will not judge us for that which we do not
    know, the important thing is to praise and thank our Lord.
     
  6. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +4,167
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    It is NOT needed for Christians under the New Covenant. But heathens will be judged by it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

    +8,511
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    There was no "consensus" among the Jews that the Carpenter from Nazareth was the actual Messiah of scripture. Still - He was indeed the Messiah. I think we both agree.

    If instead of "consensus" you mean "If we can't really know the days of the week in Christ's day" -- then you are right. But as it turns out we CAN know which day of our week was the 7th day of the week at the time of the Roman empire. This is science and confirmed history reconciling our calendar with that of the Roman calendar 2000 years ago. This is not "the missing part".

    so then we know which day of our week - was being kept at the time of the ministry of Christ as "the Sabbath" - we know when He was keeping it.

    Thus your argument becomes "IF JESUS Himself did not know which day was the Sabbath of Genesis 2 -- then why should we follow Jesus' example in keeping the day that was kept as Sabbath in his day"?

    My question then for you is -- are you really comfortable with that argument?

    ==================== however in this case -- Consensus

    The world's monotheistic religions agree - Saturday is the 7th day and Sunday the first day.

    Almost every Christian denomination will tell that Christ was raised on the first day of the week- and that the first day is Sunday.

    Almost every Jew will tell you that they keep Saturday as the Sabbath in compliance with the Ten Commandments - specifically the Sabbath Commandment.

    Thus while they have doctrinal differences they have what is essentially "consensus" not merely among Christians but BETWEEN major world religions - monotheistic religions.

    What is more the word for Saturday is "Sabbath" in over 23 nations on earth - both Christian and non-Christian.

    Here is a map of it --
    Names for Saturday in Many Languages Prove Which Day Is the True Sabbath

    =======================

    Here is an interesting "detail" -- the vast majority of Christian denominations admitting to the historic fact that the 7th day of the week was Saturday and Sunday the first day of the week - at the time of Christ, as kept by Christ and all the Jews... will almost never melt down into a debate over the idea that they don't really know if Sunday was the first day of the week at the time. They all know - it was and seldom ever resort to that debate among themselves.

    This debate point only comes up for the 7th day of the week, almost never on the subject of "which day is the first day of the week". Kinda "odd".
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  8. AmazingGraceCountry

    AmazingGraceCountry New Member

    21
    +5
    Ireland
    Christian
    Single
    Hi
    I did not think any of what you wrote, you did.

    I did not know there was an accurate account of which day is the Sabbath.
    There is no science in knowing a date or a day, its more mathematics, a calculation of time.
    I have never been in the least bit interested in keeping accurate time regarding the past tense, because I do not posses the data / information to calculate this. I leave time in Gods capable hands, especially time past, too much to process for a mere man, just as Jesus lived on earth at a particular moment in time, I can only live and deal with my particular time on earth. Keep holly the Sabbath is what matters, and to further translate that, simply keep a day of rest, and keep it holly.
    And no, I do not trust a Roman or any man to accurately provide me with a date for the Sabbath, especially if science is involved, carbon dating another example, sent off four samples of the same animal, each leg dated centuries apart.

    In any event, feel free to tell me the day we should all be keeping as the Sabbath, for I need to present my pastor with this valuable information,
    so we can all do what is right in the eyes of God.
    And also explain to me how we deal with the Seven day format, as this will change the days around, and ultimately require us getting a new calendar.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

    +8,511
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    Fine - "mathematics' but it is more than that - because we are talking about resolving dates and this can be done via the "science" of astronomy - looking at historic documents that record eclipses and determining when that would be according to the astronomical science. Etc.

    Well historic records do exist and these are not kept as a matter of "religion" but science because we want go know things such as "trends" over time - be it weather, climate, health trends, etc. Lots of reasons various branches of study want to track it.

    true - "IF" the scripture had said 'keep one day in 7 holy -- pick any day of the week you want as long as it is a 7 day cycle of your choosing" or something of that sort.

    Exodus 16:23 God says "Tomorrow IS the Sabbath"
    not - pick your day... one day in 7.
    In fact if you pick the wrong day for that 40 years in the wilderness then you do not eat on Sabbath because no manna fell on Sabbath. Only on the 6 days. A 40-year hard-wired "reminder" for God's people.

    Ex 20:11 "11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."

    Start with this "pastor I believe Jesus was raised on the first day of the week - is that why we go to church on Sunday? Was Jesus resurrected on Sunday?".

    Let me know if he says "No he was not".

    I am very interested to know that.

    The 7th day of the week has been Saturday for both Jews and Christians - on our calendars -- for many many centuries.

    Week - Wikipedia

    It is no "accident" that Jews observe the Sabbath on Saturday and many Christians observe Sunday as "week day 1" - the first day of the week - in memory of Christ's resurrection.

    Why change now?

    I have worked for a number of companies and when you report your time - they never include work done on Sunday - as applying to the previous week. Not because they are "Jews", in fact they have no religious interest invested in that payroll system at all. It is simply the fact of the week.

    ===================== pro-sunday scholars agree Saturday is the 7th day

    As great many pro-Sunday groups confirm this. Including

    1. Baptist Confession of Faith.
    2. Westminster Confession of Faith
    3. D.L. Moody
    4. Catholic church - Catechism.
    5. R.C. Sproul

    Many others.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  10. AmazingGraceCountry

    AmazingGraceCountry New Member

    21
    +5
    Ireland
    Christian
    Single
    Again, it all depends on knowing the exact date of the first Sabbath, so am not just picking a day because I want to be different, it is because I do not know for sure what the exact day is. If I did, I would honour it regardless of whether others like it or not.
    We may all have our opinions, but God knows our hearts, we can not fool Him by convincing ourselves we know exactly what day is our next Sabbath and thus those there after.
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

    +8,511
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    That -- "or" it all depends on
    1. Trusting that Christ was doing the right thing and that the fact that both Jews and Christians admit to the very day of the week Christ was keeping - then we have no excuse.
    2. Trusting that God knew what he was doing in Exodus 20:11 and that Israel had it hard-wired to keep that day for 40 years - and had writing as of that time to track it. Not losing it all - by the time of Christ.

    Take the first scenario
    1. Ok we know what day Christ was keeping in the Gospels - but maybe He was wrong and so when we get to heaven - we find that we are following Christ - keeping His day - as the 7th day - Saturday -- then He tells us "nope ... it is actually your TUESDAY that is what was the 7th day in Exodus 20:11, Genesis 2:1-3".

    Our response then is "well we were just following your example and you were keeping Saturday as the Sabbath in the Gospels. So then we can only be as 'wrong' on that point -- as you - and can only be condemned for 'following you' which is a risk we were more than happy to take"

    Second scenario
    1. Ok we know what day Christ kept - but we keep our day anyway -- hope that is ok. Then when we get to heaven Jesus says "you knew that Saturday was the Sabbath in the example I gave you in the Gospels AND you knew that BOTH the Jews and the Christians of your day agreed that Sunday was day 1 and Saturday day 7 -- and with all of this... you chose your idea of Sunday as the 7th day?? Seriously?"
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

    +8,511
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    Good question and I have answered it here - but since we are past page 30 in this thread - you are not going to get a lot of input from those of differing opinions to my post. So as a favor to you - I am starting a thread fully devoted to that one question "which day is the Bible Sabbath - the 7th day of the week" so we can see if as I say.... consensus on Saturday or "Tuesday" or "we don't know what day Christ kept or even if He was raised on the first day of the week - Sunday".

    See the thread here - Scholars on BOTH sides agree - Saturday is the seventh day - the Sabbath of Exodus 20
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

    +8,511
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    by contrast we have --

    A contrast that is apparent to the reader.
     
  14. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,970
    Christian
    Married
    If the Sabbath had any bearing on our salvation God certainly would have provided us with some way to tell us. The fact is that the Sabbath given to Israel was not for their salvation. It was for Isreal to remember. Torah was not for salvational reasons it was the way God wanted them to live in Canaan and become a Holy nation. The plan failed and the whole covenant came to an end at Calvary. There is no Christian Sabbath. The law that governed Israel in Canaan really ended at the Cross and abruptly came to a final end 70 years later with the destruction of the Temple.

    Those who believe they must "keep" a day have not studied the scriptures thoroughly or they are mere puppets of other's ideas.
     
  15. listed

    listed are you?

    +1,543
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Unfortunately that isn't addressed to the Christian.
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

    +8,511
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    "Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
    "the wages of SIN is death" Romans 6:23
    "these things I write to you that you sin NOT" 1 John 2:1
    "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
    "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
     
  17. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,970
    Christian
    Married
    Now if I follow your thoughts I am torn between the writings of Paul and what you believe the commandments to be. Paul tells the 10 commandments were (past tense) temporary and our guide is the Holy Spirit. John wrote that we are doing what is right if we believe in Jesus and love others as He commanded.

    If I am really to understand what you have written you must tell us what commands we re to keep from the list of scripture you quoted. It cannot be the 10 because I believe Paul when he told us the real truth there in 2Cor 3:7-11. If it is keeping the book of the law then you are not a good example at all. You don't even observe the feast days
     
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

    +8,511
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    Amazing! the mere quote of the text did that?

    Not in the quotes you respond to -

    In fact --- no, he says the old covenant was temporary - the New Covenant has the same LAW written on the heart --- as Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 point out.

    Thus it is "still" a sin to "take God's name in vain" Exodus 20:7.

    Obviously.

    Seriously?? - I am the author of the text??
     
  19. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,970
    Christian
    Married
    IF

    where?

    What would make any difference it is still the ministry that brought death.

    I agree now put it away. Morality is forever. Old covenant ritual commands ended at Calvary.

    Then tell us what commands we are to keep. God commanded Israelites to wear four tassels on their garments. Are you telling me I have to do that? And how about the feast days? They were commands. Please refrain from giving me your usual sick slick response that doesn't earn you any points.
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

    +8,511
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    Seriously?? - I am the author of the text??

    None of that is true - both Romans 3:19-20 and 2Cor 3 affirm that the old Covenant condition still exists - hint: no one saved who is under the Old Covenant... no one lost who is under the New Covenant. IT is the ONE Gospel of Gal 1:6-9 and has been since Adam.

    And... it is "STILL" a sin to "take God's name in vain" ... no change (no matter that that command is not in the NT).
    And ... it is STILL true that "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4. no change.

    Already answered -- goes like this.

    Amazing! the mere quote of the text did that?

    Not in the quotes you respond to -

    In fact --- no, he says the old covenant was temporary - the New Covenant has the same LAW written on the heart --- as Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 point out.

    Thus it is "still" a sin to "take God's name in vain" Exodus 20:7.

    Obviously.
     
Loading...