The seven kings of Revelation 17:10

[summerville]

Jesus, before being born to Mary, was the Lord of Heaven - God. 1Corinthians15:47.

The prophecy in Ezekiel 38-39, God gave to Ezekiel about the future to take place in the latter days, latter years.

In Ezekiel 39:21, after the judgment on the heathen in Ezekiel 39:17-18, the Lord of Heaven says...

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

In Psalms 110, it says, referring to Jesus, that he will judge the heathen, leaving a bunch of dead bodies - please look at Ezekiel 39:17-20.

4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.

In that day, in Ezekiel 39:22 above, it says the house of Israel will know that I (Jesus) am their Lord their God, and forward. Right know, would you not agree that the Jews do not believe that Jesus is the Lord their God ?

So it is still future. When during the great tribulation forthcoming, the Jews will come to believe in Jesus and receive Salvation. Which Revelation 12:10 is talking about them...

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Isn't it interesting that Ezekiel is speaking of Israel but not Judea.

 

[Douggg]

So what? You have not proved Julio-Claudianism is remotely relevant. The text of Revelation 17:10 makes no such statement.

All you have to do is read the history at Wikipedia - which i gave you the links.

 

[nolidad]

Nero was the last of the Julio-Claudian family leaders. The 7 kings are all related. Of the same family. The Julio-Claudians. Julius Caesar was the first of the Julio-Claudians, but was not an emperor, but dictator for life. Thus is not in the list of emperors.

Julio-Claudian dynasty - Wikipedia

"The Julio-Claudian dynasty was the first Roman imperial dynasty, consisting of the first five emperors—Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and Nero[1]—or the family to which they belonged. They ruled the Roman Empire from its formation under Augustus in 27 BC until AD 68 (95 years), when the last of the line, Nero, committed suicide"

The 7 kings of Revelation 17:10 are:

1. Julius Caesar (dictator for life)

2. Augustus (1st emperor)

3. Tiberius (2nd emperor)

4. Caligula (3rd emperor)

5. Claudius (4th emperor)

6. Nero (5th emperor)

7. The end times little horn person (forthcoming leader of the EU)

Maybe, but as Scripture is silent on their names we should be as well.

The little horn is the antichrist!

17 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters:

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

These kings are ridden by Mystery Babylon the Great- a harlot and harlots in the Bible when used symbolically are always a false religious system. There was no martyrs by Rome until Nero! Jesus was not a martyr of Rome but crucified as a king in opposition to Cesar! So the line of ceasars cannot be because they did not have a religious system drunk with the blood of
martyrs

 

[Douggg]

Isn't it interesting that Ezekiel is speaking of Israel but not Judea.

It is because when Gog/Magog takes place, Israel will be one country again. Not split into the northern and southern kingdoms.

 

[summerville]

Maybe, but as Scripture is silent on their names we should be as well.

The little horn is the antichrist!

17 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters:

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

These kings are ridden by Mystery Babylon the Great- a harlot and harlots in the Bible when used symbolically are always a false religious system. There was no martyrs by Rome until Nero! Jesus was not a martyr of Rome but crucified as a king in opposition to Cesar! So the line of ceasars cannot be because they did not have a religious system drunk with the blood of
martyrs

#8 is definitely Nero.. Suicide sent him to perdition.

 

[Douggg]

The little horn is the antichrist!

The little horn is that person. Commonly called the Antichrist, by reason of habit. But in actuality, as the little horn, that particular role he will be in - is not as the Antichrist.

The Antichrist has to be the person who is instead of, and against Jesus - Christ the king of Israel. The person to be in the role of the Antichrist - he has to become the king of Israel.

Differently, the little horn role is one of being the 7th Julio-Claudian king of the Roman Empire. In the end times, the leader is the EU.

Being the beast, in that role, the person will have become the 8th Julio-Claudian king of the Roman Empire, becoming dictator of the EU.

So, the distinction is - little horn, beast, king of the Roman Empire end times (a Julio-Claudian). The Antichrist, king of Israel (coming in his own name), a Jew, descended from David. It is the same person, with a unique background.

He will be identifiable when he becomes leader of Europe.

 

[Josheb]

But he did not "continue" a short space. His rule was short, but his rule did not continue.
When he was killed, it was the end of him.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

You are twisting and perverting scripture to make it say something it does not state. He did continue. He continued a short space. You are denying scripture. You are denying history. You are denying the facts. You are denying reality. You are perverting it all to force scripture to fit your position, not the other way around.

What the Greek actually states is "when he shall have come, a little while him it behooves to remain." He will remain a little while, not continue. Look it up if you doubt the veracity of what you just read. Bow to scripture. Do not bow to some unidentified teacher of the 21st century trying to force a 21st century spin upon the text and subjugate God's word. Be as critical of your source as you are of my posts.



Galba meets the measure of scripture and Galba is what the first century reader would have understood as fulfillment of Rev. 17:10. They would not have understood that as a reference to a non-existent person who may or may not live in the 21st century.



Take a step back and try to gather some objectivity.

 

[summerville]

It is because when Gog/Magog takes place Israel will be one country again. Not split into the northern and southern kingdoms.

Didn't unite them during the first invasion. I absolutely think they have Gog and Magog all wrong.. The far futurists think Rosh mean Russia.. LOLOL.. Why in Sam Hill would Russia ever attack Israel?

The Bible stories aren't linear, you know.

Pliny The Elder (d. A.D. 79)

Pliny the Elder, a first-century Roman military commander, author, naturalist and philosopher, referred to the Turkish city of Hieropolis as the heartland of Magog. Hierapolis was an ancient Greco-Roman city in Phyrgia near Laodicea. Hieropolis was also known as Scythopolis, (City of Scythes) which the peoples of that day referred to as Magog.

Maimonides (d.1205)

Maimonides, also known as Rambam, the revered Jewish sage, in "Hichot Terumot," also identified Magog as being in the modern nation of Turkey.

Magog founded the Magogians, thus named after him, but who were by the Greeks called Scythians. 6 Another first century writer was Philo, 7 who also identified Magog with southern Russia. But most of our information comes to us from Herodotus, who wrote extensively in the 5th century B.C. The "Father of History"


Josephus refers to Magog son of Japheth as progenitor of Scythians, or peoples north of the Black Sea. According to him, the Greeks called Scythia Magogia. An alternate identification derived from an examination of the order in which tribal names are listed in Ezekiel 38, "would place Magog between Cappadocia and Media."

 

[Oberamagau]

Nero was the last of the Julio-Claudian family leaders. The 7 kings are all related. Of the same family. The Julio-Claudians. Julius Caesar was the first of the Julio-Claudians, but was not an emperor, but dictator for life. Thus is not in the list of emperors.

Julio-Claudian dynasty - Wikipedia

"The Julio-Claudian dynasty was the first Roman imperial dynasty, consisting of the first five emperors—Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and Nero[1]—or the family to which they belonged. They ruled the Roman Empire from its formation under Augustus in 27 BC until AD 68 (95 years), when the last of the line, Nero, committed suicide"

The 7 kings of Revelation 17:10 are:

1. Julius Caesar (dictator for life)

2. Augustus (1st emperor)

3. Tiberius (2nd emperor)

4. Caligula (3rd emperor)

5. Claudius (4th emperor)

6. Nero (5th emperor)

7. The end times little horn person (forthcoming leader of the EU)

Most futurist don't realize that by interpreting the beast of Revelation 17 as you have - a progression of ancient empires anything like this...
1. Julius Caesar (dictator for life)
2. Augustus (1st emperor)
3. Tiberius (2nd emperor)
4. Caligula (3rd emperor)
5. Claudius (4th emperor)
6. Nero (5th emperor)
7. The end times little horn person (forthcoming leader of the EU)
...makes it primarily a Preterist interpretation.

The problem in that interpretation is the 7th king is the beast that was, and is not, and yet is....

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

How would the EU fit into the seven?

The Rev. 17 beast with 7 heads and ten horns represents people that live in the last days, not millennia ago. It should be easy to see that by looking at the wording and context. Worse than that. I believe it's in error to attributed this to Rome who isn't involved in any beast.

Both the heads and horns are said to be kings. FIVE ARE FALLEN or five 'have fallen' is a mistake. ARE is present, fallen is past! The word ARE is a third person plural present indicative. This passage isn't a union of ancient world empires or people. It's a picture of a complete end-time beast.

There are seven kings, "FIVE FALL" is the correct translation.
www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...Tpdf/rev17.pdf

The interlinear... ...AND KINGS SEVEN ARE THE FIVE FALL

Some interpret them this way...

Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece (who had fallen by John's time.) Some people used the Roman Emperor's listed above by Dougg.

These 'kings' can't be ANCIENT kingdoms when because...

"They have received no kingdom as yet," and...

"They receive power as kings one hour with the beast," and...

How can they "have one mind," and "how shall they give their power and strength unto the beast," and...

HOW CAN THEY, "make war with the Lamb," ...

IF SIX OF THEM EXISTED THOUSANDS OF YEARS IN THE PAST!

 

[friend of]

@Douggg what makes you think he's going to be the leader of the EU and not the leader of the United Nations?

 

[summerville]

@Douggg what makes you think he's going to be the leader of the EU and not the leader of the United Nations?

Some far futurists think its the United States.

 

[friend of]

Russia ever attack Israel?

Russia is allied with Iran, for starters.

 

[friend of]

Some far futurists think its the United States

I think that is valid as well. Who can make war with America, after all...

 

[Douggg]

What the Greek actually states is "when he shall have come, a little while him it behooves to remain." He will remain a little while, not continue.

Means the same thing as continues a short space.

Galba meets the measure of scripture and Galba is what the first century reader would have understood as fulfillment of Rev. 17:10. They would not have understood that as a reference to a non-existent person who may or may not live in the 21st century.

Galba was a weak and insignificant king. The 7th king will be the cap stone of the 7 kings prophecy.

The 7th king does not come to power until right before the 70th week, the 7 years. This can be determined by the crowns, no crowns on the heads in Revelation 17, 12, 13.

In Revelation 17, there are no crowns on the 7 heads, as the 7 king prophecy was incomplete in John's day, awaiting the arrival of king 7, the cap stone king.

In Revelation 12, aside from the first five introductory verses to identify the woman in the rest of the chapter as Israel, the seven years are found in Revelation 12:6, the 1260 days, followed by the time, times, half times of Revelation 12:14.

The heads in Revelation 12 have their crowns indicating that king 7, the cap stone king, has come to power, completing the prophecy of the seven kings.

In Revelation 13, one of the heads has been mortally wounded, but healed. None of the heads have their crowns, because with the death of king 7, the cap stone king, the prophecy of the 7 kings is over at that point.

king 7, healed from the death wound, will have come back to life as the beast, king 8, to continue, or remain if you want to choose that word, the short space of 42 months, in Revelation 13:5.

 

[summerville]

Russia is allied with Iran, for starters.

Neither Iran nor Russia will ever attack Israel. Don't listen to Bibi Netanyahu. For years Israel bought all their oil from Iran and there is still a sizeable Jewish community in Iran.

 

[Douggg]

@Douggg what makes you think he's going to be the leader of the EU and not the leader of the United Nations?

My reasoning is that the person has to be of the people who destroyed the temple and city, the Romans. Which would make him European.

And in Daniel 8:9, he heads to the middle east from a location north and west of Israel.

Near the end of the 7 years, after he has become the beast, dictator of the EU, in Daniel 11:40-44, he will be attacked from the south, then north; winning against those two, when news out of the north and east (Daniel 11:44 combined with Revelation 16:12 ) troubles him.

So it appears to me, the person as dictator over the EU for that final round, will likely have the other western countries, such as the United States and Canada, aligned with him.

So it can't be the United Nations because of the directions involved. And there will be global alliances in terms of the south, north, east, and west (implied) right at the last of the 7 years.

His EU kingdom will be the dominant kingdom over the rest of the world following Gog/Magog.

The nations will go along, until the judgements of God in terms of the trumpets and vials starting falling on planet earth, and energy and food sources are depleted; which at that time the nations will have no choice but to attack him, and his control over the oil in the middle east, which initially will be the carrot for the ten EU leaders to support his move into the middle east following Gog/Magog.

little horn - leader of the EU
prince who shall come - following Gog/Magog
anointed the king of israel - confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years
revealed man of sin - violates the covenant, claims to be God, impeached as king of Israel.
is killed for his claim, comes back to life - for his run as the beast for 42 months, dictator over the EU, dominant over the rest of the world.

 

[summerville]

My reasoning is that the person has to be of the people who destroyed the temple and city, the Romans. Which would make him European.

And in Daniel 8:9 he heads to the middle east from a location north and west of Israel.

Near the end of the 7 years, after he has become the beast, dictator of the EU, in Daniel 11:40-44, he will be attacked from the south, then north; winning against those two, when news out of the and east (Daniel 11:44 combined with Revelation 16:12 ) troubles him.

So it appears to me, the person as dictator over the EU for that final round, will likely have the other western countries aligned with him.

So it can't be the United Nations because of the directions involved. And there will be global alliances in terms of the south, north, east, and west (implied) right at the last of the 7 years.

His EU kingdom will be the dominant kingdom over the rest of the world following Gog/Magog.

They will go along, until the judgements of God in terms of the trumpets and vials starting falling on planet earth, and energy and food sources are depleted; which at that time the nations will have no choice but to attack him, and his control over the oil in the middle east, which initially will be the carrot for the ten EU leaders to support his move into the middle east following Gog/Magog.

little horn - leader of the EU
prince who shall come - following Gog/Magog
anointed the king of israel - confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years
revealed man of sin - violates the covenant, claims to be God, impeached as king of Israel.
is killed for his claim, comes back to life - for his run as the beast for 42 months, dictator over the EU, dominant over the rest of the world.

It wasn't just Roman soldiers.. Titus also commanded garrisons from other nearby countries in the Roman Empire.. and those were Idumeans, Syrians, Egyptians and Arabs.

Plus, don't forget that the zealots, Idumeans and Galilleans were running amok like "savage beasts".

 

[Douggg]

It wasn't just Roman soldiers.. Titus also commanded garrisons from other nearby countries in the Roman Empire.. and those were Idumeans, Syrians, Egyptians and Arabs.

Agreed, but they were under Roman command. The Jewish rebellion was against Roman occupancy.

 

[Douggg]

Most futurist don't realize that by interpreting the beast of Revelation 17 as you have - a progression of ancient empires anything like this...

The kings in Revelation 17:10 belong to the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7, and the legs of iron in Daniel 2, and in iron mixed with clay in the end times.

It is not seven kingdoms in Revelation 17:10, but kings. The kings are all of the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7.

The ten kings are end times, no kingdom in the days of John. They have not come to power yet, in any recognizable form. It is something to watch for to develop in the EU.

 

[Oberamagau]

#8 is definitely Nero.. Suicide sent him to perdition.

Nero? Nero is the little horn? That idea is easily debunked, but I've never seen a Preterist change their mind on the issue. To start...

In Daniel 8 the little horn is said to come out of the he-goat which is Alexander the Great and his kingdom. Daniel 8 clearly states the little horn comes from Grecia. It can't be Rome because the Grecian Empire did not cover Rome or Europe!

And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. SO.................

Alexanders splintered kingdom...

Verse 8 - "Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven."

After the great horn destroys the Ram, FOUR notable horns come up from the he-goat which is Alexanders four kingdoms - the little horn comes from ONE of those four Grecian horns.

Verse 9a - "And out of ONE of them came forth a little horn."

Verse 21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. (Alexander the Great)

The ‘little horn’ of Daniel 7 and 8 who stands against the Prince of princes comes out of Alexander’s splintered kingdom and no where else. ROME and NERO are out of the picture!

The ‘king of the north" in Daniel 11 and 12, who exalts himself in the time of the end, comes out of the root of Antiochus which is a fragment of Alexander’s empire. So explain how the Roman Emporer 'Nero ' fits the scriptural criteria of the little horn.