The Seven Hills the harlot Sits on

Erik Nelson

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Hi Erik, in analogy, we had Germany involved in WW1 and WW2. In similitude, there is the Gog/Magog participation in Ezekiel 38/39, then a thousand years later, Gog/Magog involved in Revelation 20:7-9.
Appreciate your thoughts on the matter. However, there is one thing the matter -- Gog and Magog don't exist before the Millennium. Prior to the Millennium the spiritual. Opponents are Babylon and the beast. Gog and Magog arise AFTER the Millennium.
 
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Douggg

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Appreciate your thoughts on the matter. However, there is one thing the matter -- Gog and Magog don't exist before the Millennium. Prior to the Millennium the spiritual. Opponents are Babylon and the beast. Gog and Magog arise AFTER the Millennium.
Hi Erik, how would you put the 7 months of cleaning the land following Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 39:12-16 into Revelation 20:9-15 ?

Gog/Magog Ezekiel 38/39
Then the 7 years of Daniel 9:27
Then Armageddon Ezekiel 39:17-20
Then the millennium beginning Ezekiel 39:21-29
Then at the end of the millennium Revelation 20, final attack, Gog/Magog nations included.
Then the Great White Throne judgment.
 
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Wes Raue

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The Bible uses the Greek word "oros" for mountain in Revelation 17. Every other time it is used in Revelation it refers to a mountain, not a hill. Was Rome actually built on seven hills? Throughout the centuries there were many different lists of the hills in Rome. In fact, there are more than seven hills associated with Rome. The Romans sometimes counted the different peaks of a hill as different hills. Rome and the ancient world had an affinity for the number seven. They believed the number seven had mystical qualities. If you delve into the history of Rome, you will find that the phrase Rome, the City on the Seven Hills is tantamount to an ancient chamber of commerce slogan. Hardly, the proper foundation to use for a biblical interpretation.

Russell sought to name seven hills in Jerusalem, but was only able to name four. Men have no trouble contriving hills or making mountains out of molehills.The Bible speaks of a need of wisdom to understand the seven mountains. Where can wisdom be found? In the Word of God and the Son of God, not in the words and slogans of pagans. Jesus reveals the mystery of the seven stars and the seven golden candlesticks in Revelation 1:20. Should we not look to Jesus and the Word of God to reveal the seven kings and seven mountains?
 
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ewq1938

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You failed to address the fact that the beast has all 7 heads. None of the heads had fallen or are shown to fall throughout the entire trib period.

Rev 17
9This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

12“The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. 14They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
Revelation was written about 66 AD under Emperor Nero during his persecution of Christians.

The 7 heads plus the beast Representing 8 Kaisers represents the dynasty of Julius Caesar. Although Rome survived the Jewish rebellion the Caesar Dynasty died out with Nero, Galba, Otho

so the Jewish war Destroyed both Jerusalem where Jesus was crucified as well as the dynasty of Julius Caesar. Which. Had authorized in carried out the crucifixion.

The 10 horns and 10. Subsequent Kings represent all of this Caesars, which ruled Rome after the Jewish war. Up until The Empire was converted to Christianity.
 
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ewq1938

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The Bible uses the Greek word "oros" for mountain in Revelation 17. Every other time it is used in Revelation it refers to a mountain, not a hill. Was Rome actually built on seven hills?

Can you name the 7 mountains?
 
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ebedmelech

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Israel was, for all intents and purposes, set against God from day one and God was to the point of eradicating them on numerous occasions. The Israelites have absolutely nothing to do with Pauls warning in 2 Thessalonians nor are they, as a "chosen" people, the subject matter in Revelation; all must come to God through Christ. Thankfully, the ground at the foot of the cross of Calvary is completely level. Paul is clearly talking about the second coming of Christ. Furthermore, Paul is speaking/writing to the saints at Thessaloniki and he says the church will be led astray by lies. That is the fact of the matter.
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
This is just a bad reading of scripture. 2 Thessalonians 1:1-2 tells us who Paul is speaking to. It is the church of the Thessalonians. It was written about 52 AD and Paul was warning them as the church would encounter strong persecution. He's not warning us in the year 2019...but we saints of today, from this letter have a model of how to stand in the face of persecution. This was the persecution of Nero in which many saints died prior to and during the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. Those are the saints who were gather to Christ...as it is written "absent from the body, present with the Lord".
Also no, Israel was not "set against God from day one"...There was always a remnant of God's people. They are "TRUE ISRAEL". It's no different than Jesus saying"not everyone who say to me Lord, Lord"...it's the same today.

There are zero prophecies, predictions or anything of the sort in Matthew 23, Jesus is simply condemning the "elite" Scribes and Pharisees. Those claiming to be the "most" religious but in reality were just the opposite.
You're kidding right? I gave you Matthew 23:31-37...and interestingly after that Jesus goes into the Olivet Discourse, which was absolutely prophetic to those who heard Him...and we know Peter, James, John, and Andrew were there!!!

The fact of the matter is all of Revelation is directed to the church and most of Revelation subject matter is the church gone astray.
Well, John said, via Jesus, that those things would "soon" take place. He warned seven existent churches that this judgement was coming and those seven churches no longer exist. John was right...it took place "soon" so...I go with John over your beliefs about it.

Yes THEY WILL and it would behoove US ALL to think long and hard about that fact!!
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1 Cor 10:12
In Him
Indeed...but no one will fall because they're wrong about Revelation. They will fall because they didn't really have Christ as their savior though they thought they did. We see the apostles still thinking it's about Israel as Jesus ascended, asking Him if He would return the kingdom to Israel. They didn't understand yet. They are now the 12 gates in New Jerusalem!
 
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ewq1938

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Well, John said, via Jesus, that those things would "soon" take place. He warned seven existent churches that this judgement was coming and those seven churches no longer exist. John was right...it took place "soon" so...I go with John over your beliefs about it.!


If that is true then the resurrection and second coming are past events which cannot be true.
 
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ewq1938

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Rev 1:1 The RevelationG602 of JesusG2424 Christ,G5547 whichG3739 GodG2316 gaveG1325 unto him,G846 to shewG1166 unto hisG848 servantsG1401 things whichG3739 must G1163 shortlyG1722 G5034 come to pass;G1096 andG2532 he sentG649 and signifiedG4591 it byG1223 hisG848 angelG32 unto hisG848 servantG1401 John:G2491

shortly G1722 G5034

G1722 is a preposition and G5034 is the word meaning shortly:

G5034
ta´???
tachos
takh'-os
From the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), that is, (with G1722 prefixed) in haste: - + quickly, + shortly, + speedily.

So with the preposition attached it doesn't mean a "brief space of time" but the meaning changes to "in haste" meaning how fast Christ comes as far as speed, not a shortness of time.



So this is what it is literally saying:

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must SUDDENLY come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

That matches the idea of Christ's return being like a flash of lightning which denotes how fast the event is not that it will happen soon as in the near future:


Mat_24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Lightning was literally the fastest thing man knew of and could see back in those days!


Rev 11 and 19 both speak of or mention the 7th trump second coming yet no one claims that has already happened.

Rev_22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

This includes the second coming and judgment day and the eternity yet none of those things have yet happened. Misunderstanding what "shortly" actually means is the issue.


Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Did the second coming already happen? Or is Jesus speaking of how suddenly he would come when it was time to return?
 
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Just_a_Christian

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This is just a bad reading of scripture. 2 Thessalonians 1:1-2 tells us who Paul is speaking to. It is the church of the Thessalonians. It was written about 52 AD and Paul was warning them as the church would encounter strong persecution. He's not warning us in the year 2019...but we saints of today, from this letter have a model of how to stand in the face of persecution. This was the persecution of Nero in which many saints died prior to and during the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. Those are the saints who were gather to Christ...as it is written "absent from the body, present with the Lord".
Exactly where did I even hint that Paul was warning us in 2019?? And you accuse me of poor reading. The FALLING AWAY and persecutions are two distinctly different things.
Also no, Israel was not "set against God from day one"...There was always a remnant of God's people. They are "TRUE ISRAEL". It's no different than Jesus saying"not everyone who say to me Lord, Lord"...it's the same today.
So, the Israelites didn't start murmuring and causing trouble almost from day one? Maybe you need to refresh yourself with some old Testament reading.
You're kidding right? I gave you Matthew 23:31-37...and interestingly after that Jesus goes into the Olivet Discourse, which was absolutely prophetic to those who heard Him...and we know Peter, James, John, and Andrew were there!!!
You said Matthew 23 contained something prophetic, do you recall? You said specifically chapter 23 verses 31-37. And no that portion of scripture still contain nothing prophetic. Whose trying to kid who here...
Well, John said, via Jesus, that those things would "soon" take place. He warned seven existent churches that this judgement was coming and those seven churches no longer exist. John was right...it took place "soon" so...I go with John over your beliefs about it.
AGAIN, where exactly did I even hint to the notion those things would not occur soon??
Are you even reading before you start typing??
Indeed...but no one will fall because they're wrong about Revelation. They will fall because they didn't really have Christ as their savior though they thought they did. We see the apostles still thinking it's about Israel as Jesus ascended, asking Him if He would return the kingdom to Israel. They didn't understand yet. They are now the 12 gates in New Jerusalem!
Twelve gates in new Jerusalem, huh??
Awesome.
 
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Wes Raue

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Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters:

Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.


She does a lot of sitting on things. She sits on waters, a scarlet beast, and on seven mountains.
A very good point. That is why the belief of a city physically sitting upon seven mountains should be questioned. The word for sit can mean more than sitting upon as J.M. Ford points out. "It can imply acquiring sovereignity."Some believe it can point to a queen sitiing on a throne. Besides, the seven mountains do not belong to the harlot. They belong to the beast. The hills of Rome belong to Rome. The hills or mountains within any city belongs intimately to the city. What truly supports a city is a kingdom. We should be looking for seven mountains within a kingdom. Alan Johnson points out that the seven mountains are more descriptive of the beast and the seven kings intead of the harlot.
 
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ewq1938

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We should be looking for seven mountains within a kingdom.

Well the kingdom is the world, and the 7 mountains are either 7 major powers, or even the 7 continents. It simply means this woman is involved with the entire world.

The waters she sits upon are the peoples of the world deceived by her false religion.

The beast she sits upon is the government the AC leads and it controls the whole world politically, militarily and financially.

And the 7 mountains she sits upon represents the world. All three examples means she is global and a part of the powers that rule during that time.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Hi Erik, how would you put the 7 months of cleaning the land following Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 39:12-16 into Revelation 20:9-15 ?

Gog/Magog Ezekiel 38/39
Then the 7 years of Daniel 9:27
Then Armageddon Ezekiel 39:17-20
Then the millennium beginning Ezekiel 39:21-29
Then at the end of the millennium Revelation 20, final attack, Gog/Magog nations included.
Then the Great White Throne judgment.
Ezekiel 39 = Revelation 20:9

They both describe the destruction of Gog and Magog by FIRE.

Unless Gog and Magog get resurrected they can only be destroyed ONCE.

And even if they got resurrected there's still only one verse in revelation where Gog and Magog are destroyed by FIRE.

That ONCE is Revelation 20 verse 9.

Gog’s Armies Destroyed
39 And you, mortal, prophesy against Gog, and say: Thus says the Lord God: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal! 2 I will turn you around and drive you forward, and bring you up from the remotest parts of the north, and lead you against the mountains of Israel. 3 I will strike your bow from your left hand, and will make your arrows drop out of your right hand. 4 You shall fall on the mountains of Israel [= camp of the Saints], you and all your troops and the peoples that are with you; I will give you to birds of prey of every kind and to the wild animals to be devoured. 5 You shall fall in the open field; for I have spoken, says the Lord God. 6 I will send fire on Magog [= fire from heaven] and on those who live securely in the coastlands; and they shall know that I am the Lord.
 
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Erik Nelson

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You failed to address the fact that the beast has all 7 heads. None of the heads had fallen or are shown to fall throughout the entire trib period.
huh?

Rev 17 sets up Rev 18 = judgment of Babylon.

On the Eve of the judgment of "Babylon" (Jerusalem in 70ad, Revelation 11:8) in Revelation 17, five of the "Heads" had fallen (Caesar Augusts Tiberius Caligula Claudius) and one (Nero) was.

Rev 17
9This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.
12“The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. 14They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
 
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Erik Nelson

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Well the kingdom is the world, and the 7 mountains are either 7 major powers, or even the 7 continents. It simply means this woman is involved with the entire world.

The waters she sits upon are the peoples of the world deceived by her false religion.

The beast she sits upon is the government the AC leads and it controls the whole world politically, militarily and financially.

And the 7 mountains she sits upon represents the world. All three examples means she is global and a part of the powers that rule during that time.
What if we use Scripture instead?

Rev 17
9This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.
 
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ebedmelech

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If that is true then the resurrection and second coming are past events which cannot be true.
No. There's a difference in the judgement of 70AD and the final judgement which is Revelation 20.
 
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ebedmelech

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Exactly where did I even hint that Paul was warning us in 2019?? And you accuse me of poor reading. The FALLING AWAY and persecutions are two distinctly different things.
The falling away is due to the persecution!
So, the Israelites didn't start murmuring and causing trouble almost from day one? Maybe you need to refresh yourself with some old Testament reading.
Does this mean ALL of the Israelites murmured and complained? Does it not show many times when they didn't? Is it any different from Christians today?

No...I don't need to read it again...I have several times, and in each instance there are many who didn't. Take for instance the rebellion of Korah did everyone get destroyed? No just those who rebelled with Korah. When these historical narratives are read one has to keep perspective. If it says the children of Israel murmured and complained is it in a particular instance or is it constant? When we as Christians disobey God today does that mean were always doing that?
You said Matthew 23 contained something prophetic, do you recall? You said specifically chapter 23 verses 31-37. And no that portion of scripture still contain nothing prophetic. Whose trying to kid who here...
Did not Jesus tell them their house was left to them desolate..and did that not happen? Shortly after that Jesus walks out of the temple and goes on to tell Peter, James, John, and Andrew how Jerusalem's house (temple), would be left to them desolate...it's the Olivet Discourse...but even moreso that temple was desolate before that because when God ripped the veil to the Holy of Holies in half upon the death of Jesus that temple was desolate then because God NEVER met the High Priest in there.
AGAIN, where exactly did I even hint to the notion those things would not occur soon??
Are you even reading before you start typing??
Are you reading before you start typing...my point is it already happened.
Twelve gates in new Jerusalem, huh??
Awesome.
If you don't get it...I understand. I did make an error though. The apostles are twelve stones in the foundation of New Jerusalem!
 
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ewq1938

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No. There's a difference in the judgement of 70AD and the final judgement which is Revelation 20.

I'm not the one making the argument that "soon" means soon in time so you have to deal with events like the second coming and resurrection happening soon in time.
 
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The falling away is due to the persecution!.


Not according to Paul who wrote of the falling away. He ties it to the deception the AC brings and the lie God makes them believe.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

That is the Antichrist!

2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The context is regarding the timing of the return of Christ. That cannot happen until two important things occur.

1. The falling away/Apostasy
2. and the revealing of the Antichrist

Obviously it is his appearance which causes the falling away because they fall away from Christ to him, the AC or false christ.


So it hasn't happened and isn't happening now. The AC must appear which will be a global event, then those who had followed Christ will follow the AC. Why? IMO he will claim to be Christ so they won't realize they have fallen away from Christ. This happened during the tribulation and as Christ states in Matthew, the second coming is not until the trib has ended.
Why did Paul even write this? Because people were concerned Jesus could just return at any moment without any warning (like a thief in the night) and Paul wanted to clarify that certain events had to happen first. Paul accidentally started the notion of the second coming happening at any time which is the basis for the pre-trib doctrine.

Contextually Paul was not speaking of a long period of falling away. It was a special event where people would stop being Christians and have a new God to worship and it is tied directly to the tribulation and the AC claiming to be God! Clearly it is when people are deceived and begin worshiping the AC because they think he is God.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This has not yet happened but it is coming. Remember that the falling away is directly related to someone claiming to be God. They "fall away" to that false god.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Nothing here about falling away due to persecution. It's a false god and lies and deception and delusion which causes the falling away.
 
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ebedmelech

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Not according to Paul who wrote of the falling away. He ties it to the deception the AC brings and the lie God makes them believe.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

That is the Antichrist!
No doubt...but there are and has been many antichrist. Does not 2 John 1:7-11 make that clear? Paul is merely pointing out one in particular. I believe "the man of sin" to be Nero.

2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The context is regarding the timing of the return of Christ. That cannot happen until two important things occur.

1. The falling away/Apostasy
2. and the revealing of the Antichrist

Obviously it is his appearance which causes the falling away because they fall away from Christ to him, the AC or false christ.
Did not Paul say the mystery of iniquity was already at work? That is the persecution which causes many to fall away. Just as Jesus stated also at Matthew 24:9-14. Who was He talking to there?

So it hasn't happened and isn't happening now. The AC must appear which will be a global event, then those who had followed Christ will follow the AC. Why? IMO he will claim to be Christ so they won't realize they have fallen away from Christ. This happened during the tribulation and as Christ states in Matthew, the second coming is not until the trib has ended.
Why did Paul even write this? Because people were concerned Jesus could just return at any moment without any warning (like a thief in the night) and Paul wanted to clarify that certain events had to happen first. Paul accidentally started the notion of the second coming happening at any time which is the basis for the pre-trib doctrine.
Sure...but this is not a physical coming of Christ. Jesus is coming in judgement here. Paul is in step with Matthew 24...and there's no pretrib going on here. Why do you think Jesus quoted Isaiah 13:10 here? Jesus is pointing out that this is the type of coming this is. Paul calls it "the brightness of His coming" and it happened as Jesus used Rome in judgement of Jerusalem, just as in Isaiah 13 the God uses the Medes to judge Babylon. I suggest a reading of the judgement going on in Isaiah 13. This is what Jesus is likening His coming to in Matthew 24...and what Paul is saying.
Contextually Paul was not speaking of a long period of falling away. It was a special event where people would stop being Christians and have a new God to worship and it is tied directly to the tribulation and the AC claiming to be God! Clearly it is when people are deceived and begin worshiping the AC because they think he is God.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This has not yet happened but it is coming. Remember that the falling away is directly related to someone claiming to be God. They "fall away" to that false god.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Nothing here about falling away due to persecution. It's a false god and lies and deception and delusion which causes the falling away.
This certainly happened...and no, Paul was not speaking of a long period just as Jesus wasn't speaking of a long period. Paul is following right along with Jesus in Matthew 24:4-31. Read that...it has every bit of what Paul is saying.

For you to say these thing haven't happened and isn't happening now is just flat wrong. Have You ever read Josephus? Furthermore, Christians are being persecuted now in many places in this world. Start with China, Iraq, India, and Africa. Many who profess to be Christians in those places, are falling away for fear of their lives. The folks doing the persecuting are antichrist because they deny Christ just as 2 John defines them.
 
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Many who profess to be Christians in those places, are falling away for fear of their lives.

Sure but that isn't what Paul wrote about. He did not speak of the specific falling away being related to persecution but delusion and deception related to the AC.
 
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